Paypal Is ***** Take!

[DJ Wozza]

I know this is a mega-saga mate, but keep fighting. Really disgraceful the way this has been handled.

Glad really I don't sell much on there....

[Haylands]

Hi

Go here....

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

It costs £50 to register, which you get back when you win, don't forget loss of earnings i.e your time in dealing with the claim. I have used this on the gas board and electricity suppliers with a good result in the past.... keep copies of everything and get names if you phone anyone.

Good Luck

Pete

P.S. A credit card purchase has to be OVER £100 to qualify for protection.....

[VVProtocolVV]

Cheers for this m8, but i been phoning for the last few days (only just got off the phone from paypal infact) and i get a different person and different answer everytime, one tells me there shouldn't be a second re-open case, one tells me i didn't produce the fax within the time frame, one tells me they sent me an e-mail (which i checked the date of and is not in my email address) that they also wanted the signature of the recipient (case has been going on for so long the tracking number is now not even in the Royal Mail website when i type in the tracking number, so now i can't produce sod all!!), one tells me i will definately get the money back as i have produce everything, etc etc etc. It's a no win situation for me the way i see it and have to bite the bullet for just pure unluckyness and as they say "$h!t happens" and im just gutted and going to just move on and forget about it. I mean, it's been going on over a month, there is so much history that they can make things up and i couldn't proof it and whenever i phone them they don't log what has been said or what i have asked for etc even though i do tell them to do this for future reference. Yes, im ****** to say the least, but i going to move on. Still have the thought of the day i had the reciept in my hand to try to get the parcel back from the lady behind the counter in the post office and she refuses to give it to me and im there watching it being put into the delivery van. Maybe i just can't handle the loss and need someone to blame......think i'll clean my lexus to calm myself down. Not all stories have a happy ending in real life!

[redz_UK]

another paypal rant form me.. i order two items off a website and paid via paypal..

they only sent one item so i emailed them twice with no response..

i disputed the transaction via paypal and after no response made a claim for half of the amount..

i then get a response from paypal saying they cannot uphold my claim as there t's and c's do not cover the quality of the goods only delivery disputes!!

am i missing something or is this not a delivery dispute??

[Chris Skelton]

So the moral seems to be; don't USE Paypal for anything but small (value) items? You get the choice when posting stuff. Means waiting for cheques to clear, etc, but at least then the £££s are yours.

As they say on 'Hill Street Blues'; "Be careful out there!

Have a good weekend everyone!

[chrisis200]

Eek... slightly but my brothers purchased 2x v fest tickets on eBay 3 months ago, apparently they would be posted a week b4 the event as this is when the tickets are released apparently.. they spent 350 pounds in total the fools recieved no ticket for the fest (you may of seen it on tv)now i dont imagine they have a chance to get the money back as the transaction through paypal was 3months ago(they dont even have a official account setup on paypal). The feedback option is now gone due to it being over 3months (clever on the fraudsters side) but if one of my idiot brothers read the guys feedback he has 80% or so and has done this thing a few times before :o how is he allowed still on there. He doesnt even hide the fact he's stealing peoples money, will try an find his name to post on here so you dont get scammed as well guys & will keep you updated on how they get on as well..

[VVProtocolVV]

Was posting something with Royal Mail today and it brought memory of this, so i asked the lady behind the counter that if i send via royal mail special delivery has it GOT to be signed by the person the item is delivered to before it can be collected? and she replied "yes, without a signature the item will not be handed over if it was sent by special delivery". So i also phoned up Royal Mail and asked again and they also told me that they can send an attachment of the signature and all the info that i needed for paypal to see, if they think that the item was not sent. I didn't know they can do this! So once again, i phoned paypal to re-open the case again. What the heck, i've phoned paypal like 8 times throughout the 2 month, few more times won't make any difference! lol....man i just can't let this one go, i tried but it just gets me thinking....i want justice!! Paypal have sent a request to re-open the case. The worst that can happen is that they will say it's been closed for too long...but i'll take that chance, especially with all the mistakes they have made with my case. Watch this space..

[redz_UK]

another paypal rant form me.. i order two items off a website and paid via paypal..

they only sent one item so i emailed them twice with no response..

i disputed the transaction via paypal and after no response made a claim for half of the amount..

i then get a response from paypal saying they cannot uphold my claim as there t's and c's do not cover the quality of the goods only delivery disputes!!

am i missing something or is this not a delivery dispute??

your post reminded me to update on my paypal issue..

apparantly beacuse i ordered two items under one payment i am unable to make a claim!!

this is because i did recieve an item but paypal cannot intervene on items missing out of a delivery only a failed delivery!!

despite the fact that the compnay sent the two items seperatley and only turned up this didnt make any sense...

luckily i did manage to get in touch with the selling company and finally managed to get half of what i paid refunded.. only to then lose out on paypal charges!!

will always pay by CC when possible from now on as there "protection" sucks...

[rig-pig]

iv just looked at this and iv had a coffee let us know how you get on m8

[VVProtocolVV]

Hmmmm...when i phoned up they said it will take roughly 72hrs for the case to be re-opened/reviewed...it's way past that and still nothing in the resolution case. So decided to post another complaint dispute to paypal. I'm nearly sick of repeating my case to a new paypal agent everytime..but anyway sent them this :-

"You will have to read through the history as it will be way too long to describe as it's been going on for over 2 months! Why am i not covered by sellers protection? I have posted the item via Royal Mail special delivery, which im sure you know is a signed only delivery. I have shown proof of delivery to you with tracking number 3 times over the months, one time you

say it was lost and wasn't attached to the case even when i personally phoned up to confirm you have recived the fax! You can even phone Royal Mail up and ask them for the delivery number and they themselves can confirm that it was delivered and signed (which i have proof of signature). I have followed everything by the book including what was asked of me and

the sending proceedures that was necessary for me to be covered by sellers protection. Please look into this as to why i am not liable for sellers protection."

I used up all 1000 words that was allowed to be put into the form, it would have taken me around 3000 words to actually describe the whole story to them!

Got this from them, typical copy and paste job from paypal:-

"Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to case ID PP-000-000-000.

Mr. ######, please let me extend my sincerest apologies for the delays and

inconvenience this issue has caused you. I know it would have been also

frustrating if I were on the same position.

Please be advised that a request has been forwarded to the relevant

department to review your case, it is taking a little longer than we

expected to reach a decision. We are actively working on your case and will

notify you on the next steps as soon as possible.

Thank you for your time and I apologise for the inconvenience that this

situation may have caused you."

...a little longer!?!?! how long does it take someone to review the case and come to a conlusion?? Especially when i have shown all the proof they want? Seems like they are trying their hardest not to refund me.

...story continues...probably well into next month.

[kris_t]

pay pal sucks sold fone on eBay buyer pays via paypal 2 months later he complaines fone faulty pay pal refund him

before i even got fone back then never herd from him agian

and now as a result of a ***** up im £220 down and cant use 1 of my pay pal accoounts

[VVProtocolVV]

How can they allow them to have a refund after 2 months!?!?!? You need to fight it m8. £220..the only phone that goes for that much is the N95. So you're telling me, as long as the buyer doesn't give a feedback, he/she can bascially get a refund when they feel like it? Bit flawed isn't it? I best question them the next time i phone paypal, which won't be too long as i've had sod all reply from them so far.

[VVProtocolVV]

Latest Saga email from paypal..

"Dear Mr #########,

PayPal placed a temporary hold on this transaction because we had received

a notification that the funds might be fraudulent. While the transaction

was on temporary hold, neither the seller nor the buyer could access the

money.

If PayPal receives this type of notification, we are obliged to investigate

further the transaction in question. This email is in relation to the

following transaction:

Email address of the buyer: ###################

Amount: ####### GBP

Date of Transaction: Jul. 3, 2008

Transaction ID: #################

After a thorough examination, PayPal has now completed the investigation of

this transaction. We would like to inform you that our suspicions were

confirmed and we have therefore reversed the transaction back to the buyer.

Unfortunately, due to data protection we cannot disclose any further

information in relation to the investigation.

We recommend that you contact the buyer directly to arrange for the goods

to be returned to you. (AS LIKE HE WILL REPLY?!?!?!?!)

I would also like to suggest that you contact our Protection Services

Departments at pending-reversal@paypal.com for additional information

concerning our Seller Protection policy

If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this

email and let us know."

So i did just that...emailed pending-reversal@paypal.com with this :-

"Why am i not covered by sellers protection? I have sent the item and have all the proof needed (signature of the buyer who did recieve my item and is posted using Royal mail Special Delivery, so all the tracking information is there)? It's been over 2 months, the buyer of my item will not responed! I have contacted paypal about this many times and on the phone they always say that as i have proof (and you have my fax and tracking number) i will be protected under the sellers protection and kept asking me to wait, and everytime i get the same reply saying "We would like to inform you that our suspicions were confirmed and we have therefore reversed the transaction back to the buyer. Unfortunately, due to data protection we cannot disclose any further information in relation to the investigation". But i already know all this, so what is sellers protection when im not protected in this case even if i can provide all the information that is needed? what action do i need to take now to settle this?"

more waiting...

[DJ Wozza]

I've been reluctant to buy anything via paypal since all this has come to light. E-Bay & Paypal should be ashamed.

[VVProtocolVV]

Want another laugh? The address at pending-reversal@paypal.com they asked me to email to is basically a dud email address as i got this reply :-

"We apologize but we are unable to respond to inquiries sent to this e-mail address. Your e-mail was routed to an unmonitored mailbox and as such will not be reviewed.

We would like to help you with questions or concerns you may have.

Please follow the steps below outlining how to contact Customer Service or how to respond to request for information such as tracking.

To contact PayPal Customer Service:...etc etc "(back to what i did on day one of this case..)

and got this reply from paypal themselves when i chased them about it via email.

"Dear #########,

Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to the case number

PP-###-###-###.

Mr #######, I understand that the payment was reversed back to the buyer and that is because we were unable to receive the information we requested

within the reasonable provided timeframe. You had ten days to provide the information requested and it has timed out. The case was closed and no further action will be taken.

Thank you for your time."

Right, let me get this straight....

10-07-08 - Paypal sends mail to ask me to fax the proof of delivery to them.

11-07-08 - Faxed Royal Mail delivery reciept to paypal together with case number and my user ID etc. Also asked for them to confirm this.

14-07-08 - Mail from paypal to confirm they have the tracking number and are still investigating the case.

30-07-08 - Email from paypal to ask to provide tracking number and i am eligible for seller protection as i have shipped the item to a confirmed address details. Also filed a complaint to paypal as to why the case is re-opend and are asking for proof of delivery again as they should already have this in their file.

31-07-08 - Provided tracking number to paypal again.

09-08-08 - Faxed paypal again with short description of the case and royal mail delivery reciept. Also phoned paypal of the current situation.

11-08-08 - Phoned paypal to confirm the fax and also attached a scan of the fax i had sent them and attached to the case. Email from payal to confirm the attachment of file.

14-08-08 - Nothing was in noted in resolution centre so called up and they confirmed they have the attachement.

And yet they turn round and say not within the timeframe!?!?!? I sent them the requested information within 1-2 days of them asking for the information they need. And they refunded back the buyer (WHO they damn well know has a freudelant account!!). It's not my fault that it's paypal that has verified the user and has confirmed their details are all real. Why am i losing out for their mistake? I mean they are providing a service and there a rules sellers must follow to be protected, yet they have no answer as to why im not being protected and replying with emails information that is incorrect and address that they know will only delay this further. The more scary thing is that i have also posted alot of this onto the ebay/paypal forum and i read many other similar situation where the seller is getting done over for no good reason. Yes there even one now that someone has claim back the money even after leaving a positice feedback and they got their money back!! Crazy! The scammers are really taking advantage of this fact and paypal needs to stop all this. I don't know what to do now as i have reached yet a dead end even after paypal has told me on the phone that the case will be re-opened...re-opened and closed with an email saying i have not provided the information is not what i was thinking of....all the broken promises from paypal is really taking the mic now, getting mixed answers whenever i phone up, must have spoken to like 10 people together by phone and email by now and noone can make any decision to where this case is going and none of them can give me ONE answer as to why i am not covered! If they cannot give me a reason then why won't they refund me back my losses?

[VVProtocolVV]

Got this later on in my email..

"Mr. ########## , I have reviewed your account and also the details of the above case and can see that we have received the documents that you faxed.

However, the document you provided was not posted or attached to the case.

Please be informed that there was already a service request created for this transaction. This request was asking Paypal to cover for your loss as this transaction was covered by the Seller Protection Program. At this point, I cannot give you exact details yet as to when you will be refunded for the £#######GBP because it is being dealt with by a separate department. Rest assured you will be notified once the funds have gone through your account.

I apologise for the trouble this has caused you.

Should you need further assistance please contact us back.

Thank you for your time."

At last result!!, so i replied with this...

"Thank you so much, as you are the only one i have seen that has understood what i have been trying to get through to paypal. I have sent all the information paypal requested all the way back from 11-07-08, so you can understand how frustrating it is for me to be greeted by emails saying i have not provided the information requested within the time frame. I even request that everytime i contact paypal by phone to log something onto the resolution center to show what has been spoken about, but they never do. I still have everything (reciept from Royal Mail with date, tracking number and signature from the buyer of my item) to proof it has been recieved by the fraudulent buyer. If there is any information you need please let me know and i will be happy to provide them. When you say "At this point, I cannot give you exact details yet as to when you will be refunded for the £#####GBP because it is being dealt with by a separate department." What is the timeframe im looking at because i don't want to wait another 7 days without anything being said in the resolution centre and end up opening another dispute call to get it going again."

But then within a few hrs i get this reply..

"Thank you for taking the time to contact us. My name is Aziel and I am here to assist you with regards to case PP-###-###-###.

Mr. ######, upon reviewing your account, I was able to see that the request that was opened for you has been closed. You were able to provide the information but not on time. The information was request on the 10th f July and a three days deadline was given to you. On the 15th of July 2008, the case was closed. It is just on the 11th of August 2008; we received the documents from you.

I have seen here that you have already email the relevant department as per you previous emails. Let us wait for their decision. As much as our department likes to appeal your case, it is being denied. I am sorry for the inconvenience that this may have caused you.

Please let me know if you need further assistance."

Yet, same again, they keep saying i didn't provide the information, But i damn well did, as i got the email on 14-07-08 from paypal themselves to confirm they have the tracking number and are still investigating the case!! They also like to use the Let us wait for someone elses decision..wait wait wait then as per usual this....nothing happens. Nothing is said in the resolution case and like noone knows anything and im back to square one again for the 4th time. So as theres nothing else i can do i replied to their email :-

"Why am i getting different answers by different paypal agents? I did fax the information to you!

11-07-08 - Faxed Royal Mail delivery reciept to paypal together with case number and my user ID etc. Also asked for them to confirm this.

14-07-08 - Mail from paypal to confirm they have the tracking number and are still investigating the case.

So what is the status of this case right now? There should be a service request for this as the transaction was covered by the Seller Protection Program. Is the case being dealt with another department? Can the status of this be put into the resolution centre so i can see what is happening please?"

The reply i get is :-

"Mr. #######, I have reviewed your account and it shows that you did not provided tracking number that is you were not eligible for coverage regarding this matter.

I am sorry for this matter but you did not provided tracking number that is why the case was close and that disqualified your for Seller Protection policy."

Bare in mind i got all these 3 emails replies from them on the SAME day!! From "Rest assured you will be notified once the funds have gone through your account. The case is being looked at and you will get the refund" to "no you won't get a refund, the case is closed because you have not provided the tracking number". So people now you can see this can happen to you, as i have only read about stories like this, but it's actually happening right now. If you are a lawyer or someone who deals with court cases, this case will be perfect for you to make a name for yourself. I have all the documents, emails from paypal, Royal Mail reciepts (tracking number), PDF proof of signature from buyer from Royal Mail, everything that paypal requested from me within the given timeframe (yet they deny it, even though i have paypal email to confirm they have the details required!). Surely if i took this to a small claims court i have a pretty good standing as its paypal that has refused to refund me under the sellers protection program for false reasons, which i can proof are wrong. Guess what.....it's time to phone paypal again.

[shake]

it sucks big time... a rant to watch dog might help if they pick it up. im sure there are thousands of others like you. i've been done by them, but luckily my bank gave them the finger when they tried to withdraw :)

what makes it worse, they are sponsors on magic fm! you'd think they'd research a company before working with them... but i guess money is money in any language

[VVProtocolVV]

Unfortunately you are right, money talks. I did phone paypal again that day and actually spoke to someone that spoke fluent english and they couldn't understand why the case has been going on for so long and they can clearly see that i should have been refunded under the sellers protection program as i have fullfilled all their requirements. So they asked for a phone back to me from someone senior from their freud department and said expect a call back within 24hrs as they was currently busy. Had one call 20 minutes later, but hang up soon as i answered!?!??! So phoned paypal again to ask if it was them and they said the case is still being looked at and noone has phoned back to me yet. Anyway, today soon as i got back from work, i contacted paypal to forward me to someone in their senior department as i've been expecting a call back. The senior member looked at my case and said yes they have the fax i sent them but i need to do it again, but this time also with the PDF from Royal Mail to show proof of delivery and they will also call me back around 5-6pm to confirm the fax. So i will see what happens again. But at least i got someone senior in their department who i asked can actually have the power to say yes or no to the refund, so i must follow their proceedure, even if that means repeating the fax mania. Anyway will report back tomorrow to see what happens from here....if they even bother to call back...i don't even expect they will the way i've see it tbh.

[DJ Wozza]

you gotta go to Watchdog with this, it is a blantant fob you off until you give up scam.

I would say it's a joke, but you hare out of pocket mate so it ain't funny.

Baseball bat to the buyer is they only other option. Not that I would condone that of course :tsktsk:

[VVProtocolVV]

Im expecting some lame excuse not to refund me tbh, i mean they've managed to brush me aside all this time, why couldn't they keep doing it. Especially when now it is being dealt by someone with the power to close my paypal completely if i should keep pursuing this! We shall see what is coming next. I really can't think of any reason why i should not be refunded. But like mentioned from above posts, im definitely not the first to be treated like this by paypal. Just that the cost runs into the hundreds of pounds and i just can't let it go, it's not even about the money now, but rather to prove i am in the right and that the fraudeluant buyer should be charged for my item! Anyway tomorrow will probably be the final verdict from paypal, fingers crossed it will be over one way or another.

[DJ Wozza]

Mate it's the principal of it, not just the money any more.

You have provided them with every piece of proof they have requested, yet they are still making you jump through hoops.

Seriously, you should contact Watchdog with copies of the emails and all the other stuff. This needs to be exposed IMO

for the fact you are in the right, and they just don't want to pay out.

[shake]

have you purchased a fax machine? would of paid itself off by now

this is a royal ***** take, i hope your keeping a list of costs etc to claim?

[VVProtocolVV]

I was thinking about purchasing a fax machine the other day just for these kind of situation, but theres one at work so i knocked it on the head. Well, got email to confirm they have the latest fax i sent them, but will take 3-5 days for it to be attached to the case (been through all this before by the way!) and they will update me once thats done.

Wozza, im surprised paypal hasn't already been on watchdog cos i have heard so many stories (and has happened to a number of my friends as well) the kind of mis-justice that paypal can do, if they desire to. The funny thing is, they ask for details and it must reach them within 3 days, but takes them 3-5 days to confirm by phone they have it, so bascially if they don't get it the day after they ask for it, you won't know until 3-5 working days later which would mean it's too late (slightly flawed there!) Why is it that when they want something they only give you 3 days to produce it, but they can take 10 days+the 3-5 days of attachment time to come up with a verdict?? Anyway, have to wait another 3-5 days to see what they say in my resolution centre. It'll probably be an email saying i haven't provided the required information within the timeframe and case has been closed and never to be re-opened again?!?!

[DJ Wozza]

Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog !

Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog !

Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog !

Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog !

Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog ! Watchdog !

[redz_UK]

The Times, 4th October: Online shoppers win more protection when they find their hopes sinking on eBay

PayPal, the payment service used by 20 million online shoppers in Britain, has given in to consumer demands to offer full refunds to buyers defrauded on eBay. Previously, anyone using PayPal to buy items such as a laptop or furniture risked losing hundreds of pounds on something that might not work or even arrive. Consumers who buy an item worth more than £150 using PayPal on eBay will now have protection.