Network Hard Drives

[Parthiban]

I'm looking to buy a 1TB network hard drive, are there any particular brands to look out/watch out for? The Western Digital ones seem pretty reasonably priced, but then haven't heard too much about them, then there's Buffalo and Freecom that cost a bit more but not sure if it's justified..........

Also does having RAID add any advantage when used as a network drive (so limited by the speed of the network anyway)? I doubt I'd use the mirroring feature as I'm basically planning to use it purely as a backup to the computers on the network so all the information will probably be on 3 different hard drives at the same time anyway.

[Dego]

A major factor in deciding what to go for is whether it is for home or bussiness use. I cant comment on bussiness use, but if you want a NAS (network attached storage) device for home use, then QNAP do some seriously powerful bits of kit. I bought a QNAP TS-109 Pro and then bought a 1TB disk separately and fitted myself. Very easy to do, and network setup is easy for anyone with just a little home networking experience. The main reason I went with QNAP was that it was DLNA compatible, which means it can also be used as a media server for stuff like the PS3. It has many features like web server, FTP host, itunes server, bittorrent download station(even without a PC turned on), backup server, remote access over the internet. Highly recommended.

PS: I DONT work as an agent for QNAP, I am just well impressed with what I got from them :D

[Paradroid]

I bought a D Link DNS-323 and put my own 500GB drives into it, operating in RAID mode.

I've been very disappointed with it to be honest, had a few problems with the onboard software especially with the iTunes server so have not used it that much. Also the D Link support line are useless, I've complained to them about the problems the box has and they did nothing.

Wouldn't recommend at all. I saw a few La Cie drives that looked smart before i bought by D Link.

[Parthiban]

Cheers for that, one brand I've never heard of (QNAP) which I'll definitely be looking into and another I hadn't really considered (D-Link) and won't be looking into any further then!

To be honest, it doesn't really have to do anything fancy, as long as it's decent and I can use it to back up my computers, and be accessible easily off the network, that's all I need.

How much was the QNAP kit? And what is DLNA?

[Paradroid]

By the way, you asked an interesting question right at the start, about whether RAID is worth it.

I decided RAID was a must-have, which is why I went for the D Link box. But thinking about it, I don't think it's worth it. The thing with RAID is it doesn't protect you against an accidental deletion, or a file or disk partition getting corrupt. If it happens on one drive it will be mirrored to the other. So all it does is keep your files available in the event of a hard drive failure. But if you're using the drive as a backup solution, you've two copies of the files already anyway, one on the computer, the other on the backup drive.

Another thing that's bothered me about my NAS is that Apple's Time Machine backup doesn't support network drives, so I ended up buying a cheap Firewire hard drive enclosure just so I could back up my Mac files properly.

So again the NAS drive has been less than useful!

[Steviewevie]

And what is DLNA?

Digital Living Network Alliance

It's basically a standard to let home entertainment devices interoperate with each other. So DLNA-certified kit should talk to each other more easily.

[TheDon]

One brand i would say stay away from is MAXTOR based devices (aka Seagate)

At work i have had over 5 new power supplied for the 320gb external backup drive in under 12 months... trust me its not a fun thing when you desperately need data off it.. and for a test example i even left the power supply unplugged from the drive and it still imploded!

As for personal use (finger crossed) i have had WD Books for a few years and have had a flawless intergration with them, i believe they do a 1TB WD BOOK for £125 now.. even wireless versions are availiable

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/306727

Centralised storage for your home network. Add this network hard drive to your wired or wireless network for a surprisingly simple and secure way to access your data anywhere, anytime. At home, in the office, and anywhere in the world - even when your local computer is turned off.

Backup Software - Easy-to-use software allows you to back up multiple PCs to one location.

Data OnHand - Use Windows Explorer on any PC to find, open, edit and save files. It’s like having your files with you wherever you are.

WD Anywhere Access - The files on this drive are always accessible when you need them, even when your local computer is turned off.

Capacity gauge - See at a glance how much space is available on your storage system.

Add additional external storage - Plug in an external USB drive to the port on the back of the drive for added capacity.

Use This Product When You Want To

Automatically back up all your PCs to one central location.

Simplify your home network and access data from any computer or external hard drive in the house.

Easily access and edit your files from any PC.

Get files from home while at the office.

Securely share photos with your friends anywhere in the world without uploading them to the web.

Offer your clients an easy way to access business documents, designs, and artwork. Eliminates the need for a separate FTP server.

Stores: over 833,000 Photos or 1535 Movies or up to 250,000 MP3 files

External Network Hard Drive 1TB Storage Capacity Store and Share your music and movies View photo's across your shared network Designed for home users and small office Simple and secure data access system Enjoy multiple network users music Connects to network via ethernet 10/100/1000 Ethernet Interface 833000 photos, 1535 movies or 250000 MP3

[TheDon]

am hoping that with my new N rated network system that it will keep up with the speeds (400mbps vs 100mbps)

[Parthiban]

Cheers, that's the one I was looking at as it seems well priced and most reviews are positive (like yours). Not too bothered about wireless as I'll just plug it into my router, as long as it integrates easily and can back up my data then I'll be happy.

Doesn't seem to be in stock at any of my local stores, but might just go with that then :)

[Mike_B]

Another thing that's bothered me about my NAS is that Apple's Time Machine backup doesn't support network drives, so I ended up buying a cheap Firewire hard drive enclosure just so I could back up my Mac files properly.

Is that right? How do Apple's own Time Capsule drives work then - or is that because they are apple kit that they can work over a network? Their website talks about backing up seamlessly over wireless, so it must be using some sort of network arrangement!

[Parthiban]

Another thing that's bothered me about my NAS is that Apple's Time Machine backup doesn't support network drives, so I ended up buying a cheap Firewire hard drive enclosure just so I could back up my Mac files properly.

Is that right? How do Apple's own Time Capsule drives work then - or is that because they are apple kit that they can work over a network? Their website talks about backing up seamlessly over wireless, so it must be using some sort of network arrangement!

I think it can do it wirelessly, but has to be a USB drive somewhere on the network (another computer perhaps). Got to agree it doesn't make a lot of sense, but a lot of things apple don't :)

[Parthiban]

A few months later, still haven't got one

Looking to buy one soon, but thinking of going for a normal one now instead of a network one as my main computer's on pretty much all the time anyway so seems a bit pointless..........

Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask is about Windows Backup. If I set it up to do a backup every week onto the external hard drive, does it actually save all the files to the other drive, or does it create some kind of backup file that would only be able to restore from?

Sorry if this is a bit of a novice question but not really sure how it works :)

[Tyger]

Paradroid: You must take any external drives off the Exclude list and they will be backed up also. (System Preferences/Time Machine/Options) They are added to the Exclude list automatically, you have to remove manually. :)

The advantage of a wireless backup like Time Capsule (http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/) is one of security and convenience.

If the bastards nick your PC then you still have your data on the Time Capsule (that was hidden away somewhere of course...)

It also backs up multiple machines.

My Mac Pro, iMac and MacBook are all seamlessly backed up on the hour every hour by Time Machine.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html

I can return any file or folder to it's previous state at any hour since I activated it months ago or restore a whole machine if it gets nicked.

As a bonus it's an 8.0211g/n base station and has a USB port for wireless printing.

[Steviewevie]

Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask is about Windows Backup. If I set it up to do a backup every week onto the external hard drive, does it actually save all the files to the other drive, or does it create some kind of backup file that would only be able to restore from?

I haven't used it myself, but I believe it's the latter.

[aido]

Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask is about Windows Backup. If I set it up to do a backup every week onto the external hard drive, does it actually save all the files to the other drive, or does it create some kind of backup file that would only be able to restore from?

I haven't used it myself, but I believe it's the latter.

Exactly right mate, NTBackup creates a *.BKF file that you have to catalog on another system when it comes to restoring an individual file.

If you just wanted a sync of the filesystem you could look at setting up a Windows scheduled task using something like Robocopy which is a free download from MS and use that to sync an external drive to the local drive - it's easy to do :)

[Mike_B]

Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask is about Windows Backup. If I set it up to do a backup every week onto the external hard drive, does it actually save all the files to the other drive, or does it create some kind of backup file that would only be able to restore from?

I haven't used it myself, but I believe it's the latter.

Exactly right mate, NTBackup creates a *.BKF file that you have to catalog on another system when it comes to restoring an individual file.

If you just wanted a sync of the filesystem you could look at setting up a Windows scheduled task using something like Robocopy which is a free download from MS and use that to sync an external drive to the local drive - it's easy to do :)

I will have to check tomorrow, but I think Windows Vista allows you to pick out files in a manner more akin to Time Machine, ie choose from different timed backups. Since I never used backup on XP (through lack of need, before anyone starts on about how I don't trust Vista!!) I don't know if it's the same system or not...

Time Machine is pretty cool though, I bought a Seagate Freeagent Desk external drive to use with it - looks very smart next to my iMac! :D

[Asi]

i have the apple time capsule and works wireless perfectly

thanks

[Parthiban]

Exactly right mate, NTBackup creates a *.BKF file that you have to catalog on another system when it comes to restoring an individual file.

If you just wanted a sync of the filesystem you could look at setting up a Windows scheduled task using something like Robocopy which is a free download from MS and use that to sync an external drive to the local drive - it's easy to do :)

Cheers, I'm a bit slow with this stuff so bear with me as I catch up!

So if I have a folder of music, and back it up to the external hard drive..........if I use windows backup, the file on the hard drive will be unreadable, but if I use robocopy, it will simply be exactly the same folder on the other hard drive (and files could be opened and used on any other computer)?

[aido]

So if I have a folder of music, and back it up to the external hard drive..........if I use windows backup, the file on the hard drive will be unreadable, but if I use robocopy, it will simply be exactly the same folder on the other hard drive (and files could be opened and used on any other computer)?

That's it mate - Robocopy just takes two folders or drives or whatever you want and keeps them exactly in sync, it's an old Resource Kit tool.

There are other things kicking about like xxxcopy but I've usually just stuck with Robocopy as I've proven it works time and time again!

As for the backup file - that is readable on other Windows machines, but if you say wanted to just plug the disk into a standalone DVD player you'd be much better off going with Robocopy!

@ Mike - I still haven't looked at Vista yet but that sounds like it's using shadow volumes or something similar? Can see I really need to catch up on that side of things!

[Mark W]

How do all these programs cope with locked or open files? Can they still backup?

I use Paragon software for my server which makes an image copy of the entire server - even though it's a webserver too and therefore operational 24hrs

Image can be opened by the same software and individual files/folders extracted easily

I'd also stick with your original plan for a NSD rather than external h/d. If the machine it's connected to fails then you've also lost your scheduled backup too

[aido]

How do all these programs cope with locked or open files? Can they still backup?

The only files on a standard desktop nowadays I'd expect to cause issues would be PST files when they're locked by Outlook, MDB / LDB files in Access and the system pagefile - things like MP3s wouldn't be locked as the app would only be reading it - not writing to it so should be fine without full on backup software.

I'd usually use BackupExec or NetBackup for servers but that would be way out of the price range for just backing up userdata.

Robocopy has options for retries, wait times between each and so on, it's a nice bit of software to be honest, will also replicate permissions etc over to another volume as long as it's NTFS.

This is all getting easier with the advent of shadow volumes etc, it's mad what is going on in the background sometimes!

[Geoffers]

Yep, robocopy is the one. Its xcopy on steroids.

Its very robust and tolerant of disk/network speeds so network managers use it frequently, including myself. It keeps perfect logs too. You can even set it to delete the files that aren't on the source so use it as a sync tool. It has the usual incremental settings so you aren't backing everything up all the time.

[Parthiban]

Cheers Aido and Geoffers, that sounds like exactly what I want. Obviously I'm not backing up a business network or anything, I just want once a week to back up the main areas of the hard drive (docs, music, photos) just in case a drive fails so this sounds perfect (especially if it's good enough to use on a commercial level as well). The only reason I wanted it to store them as the original files was so if necessary I could just pick up the external hard drive and plug it in to another computer to use the files.

Just to check, is this what I need to download? LINK

I can't seem to find it on it's own

[Geoffers]

Yes, its part of the resource tools. I'm sure there will be somewhere with it separately but you might as well extract it from a good source.

There's a gui for it now. If thats not included, just do a quick search on the Microsoft site for Robocopy GUI.

[aido]

That's it mate :)

I usually use the following options:

robocopy (Source) (Destination) /MIR /R:3 /W:5 /SEC /LOG+:(Logfile) /TEE

That performs a mirror of the folder or drive that you specify - performs three retries for files it cannot lock with a five second delay in between, and also copies file permissions - but that is dependant on both filesystems using NTFS otherwise they will be discarded. Like has already been said it only copies changes to the filesystem so it's not a full copy each time so it's pretty quick once the initial copy has been done.

The last two options basically generate a logfile that is appended to each time the process is run - if you want to overwrite the log file just use the /LOG option as opposed to /LOG+ - the /TEE option just works like the tee command and outputs to both the logfile and the console.