Number Plates Illegal...

[KentIS300]

Well I heard it all today ...

apprently my number plates which I have been using since 2006 more less are illegal as of today.

My number plate has only 4 letters and 1 number in two groups

X0 XXX lets say ...

Today I was told from the MOT station my car has failed due to having too much spacing between the groups!!!

My response was what?? I would have thought that having 1 space more ... would have made it be clearer to read than misrepresenting or amending letters....

So now I need to go down to Halfords and get a pair of cheapo plates to pass my MOT.

I have written back to the place I have ordered my plates originally ... stating that they have not notified me that having two spaces instead of one between groups would make my non road legal and they mentioned that their website clearly displays the following statement

To mis-space or mis-represent the digits on number plates is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Be sure to enter your registration number correctly because the finished number plates will be made to the same spacing you enter here.

Which as I said in my reply ... I would have thought that mis-spacing would be to have too few than too many in my understanding as too many are out there making two letters look like one etc.

Still no response to my claim of getting a free replacement pair of plates.

[scudney]

Hi sadly i dont think you will get a refund,having said that there does seem to be a lot of illegal plates on cars - no postcode,no BSU,wrong fonts,mis-spacing etc

[KentIS300]

It would have been easier to have a pop up on their website or a warning to say they the spaces I entered would make my number plates non legal.

This statement means nothing to me and to 90% of the day to day users I believe.

To mis-space or mis-represent the digits on number plates is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Be sure to enter your registration number correctly because the finished number plates will be made to the same spacing you enter here.

I have googled the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971 and ... I cannot seem to find anything about number plates... let alone the mis-spacing mentioned there.

So how can this statement be valid?

[dave1]

It would have been easier to have a pop up on their website or a warning to say they the spaces I entered would make my number plates non legal.

This statement means nothing to me and to 90% of the day to day users I believe.

To mis-space or mis-represent the digits on number plates is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Be sure to enter your registration number correctly because the finished number plates will be made to the same spacing you enter here.

I have googled the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971 and ... I cannot seem to find anything about number plates... let alone the mis-spacing mentioned there.

So how can this statement be valid?

Check this official government site.....gives full details on requirements for vehicle registration plates.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/PersonalisedRegAndNumberPlates/DG_181503

[dave1]

I have googled the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971 and ... I cannot seem to find anything about number plates... let alone the mis-spacing mentioned there.

So how can this statement be valid?

If link on last post doesn't work below is cut/paste of relevant part:

Your number plate should show the correct:

• character height - 79 millimetres
  
• character width - 50 millimetres (except the figure 1 or letter I)
  
• character stroke - 14 millimetres
  
• space between characters - 11 millimetres
  
• space between groups - 33 millimetres
  
• top, bottom and side margins - minimum 11 millimetres
  
• space between vertical lines - 19 millimetres
  

[KentIS300]

Thanks Dave, I was directed there by DVLA after I called them.

However I don't see what difference does it make if there is one space or a two space gap between the groups.

X0 XXX

or

X0 XXX

I have received tickets via the post all those years bus lanes and junction boxes ... without any problem recognising my 2 spaces number plate.

And as someone else has said ... MOT check is for the road worthiness of the car ultimatelly ... not how "legal" a number plate is or not.

Anyhow I am just boiling here as I see so many illegal number plates on the road ... text style ... 1J made look like U ...and I mean it you cannot make if it is 1J until you go 1m away.. and these cars are driving amongst us every day...

However an extra space between groups is illegal!

Anyhow ... I went to Halfords .... printed off some really cheap number plates and got them on the car to pass the MOT.

I have spoken to consumer direct ... and they adviced regadless the statement on the website of the number plate maker, I was supplied with a product non fit for it's purpose.

Ultimately a number plate which cannot be used on the car with it's legal term.

Hence I could take it to court and have a good chance of winning under the consumer act.

I believe the statement is not clear and I had received no warning once the order was received.

[sparkystav]

Personally if your MOT place is failing you for that I'd find a new MOT place rather than worrying about the plates.

[dave1]

Without seeing the website it's hard to tell but I would think that the onus would be on the buyer, since the buyer could want the plates for "show use" not road use. Probably not worth pursuing via any legal action.

Unfortunately, since the condition (ie cracks, chips, etc.) of the registration plate and also the format is included in the test, it is a fail if the tester feels it doesn't comply with the statutory requirements.

I tend to sympathise with your predicament because, as you say, there are blatantly illegal examples on the road........they probably put correct plates on for MOT and hope they don't get a tug by police!

[wendle]

The problem is that they keep changing the law, and most of the time they forget to tell the public. My cousin had a number plate with a hologram behind the main lettering witch 1 year ago was legal, this year his car failed the m.o.t because of this witch in now apparently illegal. I have had hologram number plates for 8 years and nothing has been said but I suppose I will have to change them to get through the next m.o.t

[KentIS300]

OK let's say I wanted the number plates for a show use ... why go through the whole process of asking for my DVLA document that authorised me to produce my registration plates and also for my passport or photo driving licence??

They were more than obviously intented for road use since I had my DVLA document which I sent them.

Here is the website http://www.demonplat...latebuilder.php

If I am not allowed to post links as such ... please let me know and I will remove it.

[dave1]

OK let's say I wanted the number plates for a show use ... why go through the whole process of asking for my DVLA document that authorised me to produce my registration plates and also for my passport or photo driving licence??

They were more than obviously intented for road use since I had my DVLA document which I sent them.

Here is the website http://www.demonplat...latebuilder.php

If I am not allowed to post links as such ... please let me know and I will remove it.

Having read some of the FAQ on the website it might be worthwhile taking a photo of the plates they made, a copy of your order and a copy of question/answer 3 on their site to DVLA with a covering letter explaining your concerns as they appear to admit that if they make an illegal plate then they are breaking the law. It really comes down to how strongly you feel about it.

Regarding your having to prove it is your registration they are obliged to ask for proof even if not for road use otherwise anybody could clone any plate by saying it was not for road use.

[m1pui]

You produce your documents to prove that you are entitled to use the registration mark you're requesting, not to prove what you're going to do with them. It's about reducing casual car cloning.

And from looking at the site in it's current state, it doesn't purport to limit you to guaranteed road legal plates. There's several bits on there that say this or similar, as you've already spotted yourself.

To mis-space or mis-represent the digits on number plates is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Be sure to enter your registration number correctly because the finished number plates will be made to the same spacing you enter here.

If you chose to double space the gap then, from my point of view looking in, it's your fault not the suppliers. You also say that

Which as I said in my reply ... I would have thought that mis-spacing would be to have too few than too many in my understanding as too many are out there making two letters look like one etc.

If they do decide to give you free replacements then it will be through nothing but goodwill. Assuming something to be right or wrong isn't really a solid argument.

No offence, but going to the effort of blaming the supplier, getting in touch with consumer direct and imagining that you could take this court after you bought them 5 years ago is just a bit OTT really. Get over it and find a less nazi MOT station would be my advice.

[KentIS300]

You produce your documents to prove that you are entitled to use the registration mark you're requesting, not to prove what you're going to do with them. It's about reducing casual car cloning.

And from looking at the site in it's current state, it doesn't purport to limit you to guaranteed road legal plates. There's several bits on there that say this or similar, as you've already spotted yourself.

To mis-space or mis-represent the digits on number plates is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Be sure to enter your registration number correctly because the finished number plates will be made to the same spacing you enter here.

If you chose to double space the gap then, from my point of view looking in, it's your fault not the suppliers. You also say that

Which as I said in my reply ... I would have thought that mis-spacing would be to have too few than too many in my understanding as too many are out there making two letters look like one etc.

If they do decide to give you free replacements then it will be through nothing but goodwill. Assuming something to be right or wrong isn't really a solid argument.

No offence, but going to the effort of blaming the supplier, getting in touch with consumer direct and imagining that you could take this court after you bought them 5 years ago is just a bit OTT really. Get over it and find a less nazi MOT station would be my advice.

I bought the first set 5 years ago ... and bought then this set in September 2011.

My arguement is that noone has told me until today .... that putting 2 spaces between the group of numbers is illegal.

I believe a common understanding of an illegal number plate is one that has no spaces ... or the letters are too close to make something look like something else.

This is an obvious mis-spacing to me and I believe to common sense.

I have gonne to such "extremes" in researching, as I was not expecting my car to fail to something I was never warned that might be illegal.

The main statement to the consumers advice ... is that the supplier sold me a product which is not fit for purpose, which I believe is accurate. The supplier never told me that my number plates will be legal only for shows and not for road use.

If such statement was supplied with the delivery of my number plates we would not have this "arguement" at the moment.

[KentIS300]

Also after looking a bit more into it .... it is the supplier to blame according to DVLA website, they should not supply me with mispaced number plates... this law amendment came into action in 2008 and it is in the DVLA website.

Hence the supplier should have contacted me to notify me that my product did not meet the legislation.

Non-Compliant Number Plates

It is already an offence for motorists to display non-compliant number plates on their

vehicles. From 1 November 2008 it will become an offence to supply number plates

that do not conform with the Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations

2001 and the British Standard. This offence will apply throughout the UK and carries a

maximum penalty of £2500 and/or suspension from the register for up to 5 years. It will

be illegal to supply plates with the vehicle registartion mark (VRM) mis-spaced to look like

the name of an individual, non standard font/colour or with a slogan or message printed

on them.

Information about the display of registration marks can be found on leaflet ‘Display of

Registration Marks for Motor Vehicles’ (V796).

[fjcfarrar]

I know it sometimes doesn't seem fair, but regardless of the legalities surrounding the supplying of your plates; once you drive on the roads they are entirely your responsibility. Not knowing the Law has never been a defence & you must surely have known you were pushing your luck with ANYTHING non-standard on your plates.

Although an extra space seems only slightly breaking the law; it doesn't recognise "slightly breaking" - it treats it much the same way as "slightly pregnant".

So perhaps it is best to just put it down to a life-lesson & forget about it :<)

[KentIS300]

I know it sometimes doesn't seem fair, but regardless of the legalities surrounding the supplying of your plates; once you drive on the roads they are entirely your responsibility. Not knowing the Law has never been a defence & you must have known you were pushing your luck with non-standard plates.

Well I did not know that they were non standard plates, noone told me different until yesterday at the MOT station.

Anyway I have spoken to DVLA and they have adviced by law the number plate supplier should not have supplied me with those number plates being non road legal.

By them supplying me those number plates they have broken the law and they are liable to fines or suspension of their licence if they do not set the matter right.

It is not about me ... but how many can they order from the specific website spend a fortune on a set of number plates thinking they are legal and have a peace in mind ... until they are caught by surprise like I did.

[m1pui]

Make sure you also report those MOT stations which have issued you with a pass certificate whilst they've been fitted as they are supplying you with an invalid MOT

[KentIS300]

Make sure you also report those MOT stations which have issued you with a pass certificate whilst they've been fitted as they are supplying you with an invalid MOT

M1 my issue is not with the MOT places ... but with the Number Plate supplier who is denying total liability... while according to the law should have notified me before they hit the production process stating my number plates cannot be produced.

That is the main argument. A supplier denying an error in their process.

You would order from a professional claiming being in the business 12years ... and you would expect that the product you receive is legal. There is no pop up disclaimer ... stating your number plates are illegal or anything similar. How would the end consumer know that they are not correct?

[fjcfarrar]

Supplying you with non-legal plates. Wriggling out of their responsibilities by refusing to replace them with proper legal plates in this petty way. What does this tell you about this company?

"Reputable" - hardly! Bothered about their customers once they have your money - what do you think?

Even supposing they have got their act together now - Don't use them again. Tell everybody you know about them. Mind you, will they care where it is probably a bit late for the Authorities to do anything about it.........

[KentIS300]

I know I gave up ... but I am getting a refund.

For definate I will not recommend them

[fjcfarrar]

I know I gave up ... but I am getting a refund.

For definate I will not recommend them

Glad they stumped up for a refund - makes you feel better just on principle.

I suppose I have been lucky really & have never had to replace plates right from the days of white on black to now - plus I only think of them as a help to find the car in car-parks and something to stop each end from fraying

[dave1]

Also after looking a bit more into it .... it is the supplier to blame according to DVLA website, they should not supply me with mispaced number plates... this law amendment came into action in 2008 and it is in the DVLA website.

Hence the supplier should have contacted me to notify me that my product did not meet the legislation.

Non-Compliant Number Plates

It is already an offence for motorists to display non-compliant number plates on their

vehicles. From 1 November 2008 it will become an offence to supply number plates

that do not conform with the Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations

2001 and the British Standard. This offence will apply throughout the UK and carries a

maximum penalty of £2500 and/or suspension from the register for up to 5 years. It will

be illegal to supply plates with the vehicle registartion mark (VRM) mis-spaced to look like

the name of an individual, non standard font/colour or with a slogan or message printed

on them.

Information about the display of registration marks can be found on leaflet ‘Display of

Registration Marks for Motor Vehicles’ (V796).

I did suggest to you, in 11th posting on this thread, that you should contact DVLA with full details!

[steve2006]

If you click on the link for the plate maker the number plates displayed on the home page are not road legal so that should sound the alarm bell long before you click PAY

I also tried entering my reg number and sure enough you can enter 1 or 2 spaces between the groups but no more and this also shows the wider space on "Your Plates" below.

However a registered Plate supplier should only produce plates that are road legal unless they are "show plates" and clearly marked as being so, the plates should therefore be produced with the correct spacing regardless of how many spaces you enter on the website.

[KentIS300]

I did suggest to you, in 11th posting on this thread, that you should contact DVLA with full details!

I took your advice Dave :) although there was no need to provide full details. As soon as I said I will take the matter legaly and I was a replacement legal set of plates or a refund. They offered a refund ... not a replacement.

[wicked677]

Doesn't say much about the MOT place you have sent your car too. A bit like failing it on wipers when perfectly ok, they might be following the law but was a bit harsh considering you didn't try to misrepresent the characters. Bet they were quick enough to try and flog you a set of their £stupid.99 plates.

Can get sets from eBay with all legal marking dirt cheap have ordered many before