Which Rx Should I Buy

[Benz man]

Hi everyone, I'm a new member and soon to be Lexus owner.

I intend to buy an RX300 or RX350 and fit an LPG conversion.

My question to the forum is which is the better car & and is an LPG

conversion a good idea? cheers!

[katabrontes]

I considered the same problem before i bought my RX350 last year. Having read a few reviews it seemed that the 350 had some advantages over the 300 (although others with more experience of both models may not agree) so I thought the extra cost worthwhile as I didn't want to buy one that was too old and set my limit for mileage at 40K. I decided against a 400 as we leave it for several months a year when we are away and the Battery problems would have been troublesome. I didn't want to spend the extra (up to £7K I thought) on a 450. However 350s are not easy to find - I could only find one in August when I bought mine. It looks better now as I found 12 in UK on Autotrader today. LPG conversions costs about £2K and you need to have it serviced annually which I think is about £2-300 and needs to be done by a specialist who may not be conveniently close to you. You save a little road tax (£10) and something on fuel but will have to give up your spare wheel to accommodate the LPG tank. There are restrictions on the Channel tunnel (and maybe others and maybe ferries as well). I did not look into extra insurance costs. I have copied part of my spreadsheet below for information. The figures may be arguable but overall it didn't stack up for me so I bought a low mileage RX350 SE and after a few teething problems I am very happy with it. I decided against the SEL as I had read of a few rather expensive problems with the air suspension. I plan to keep it for 4-5 years and then probably change to a 450 as I don't think the 350 is available new any more in UK..

Petrol LPG Road Tax £475.00 £465.00 Annual Mileage Save on gas LPG conv. RX350 24 6000 £1,867.21 £1,412.08 £455.13 £1,896.00

[katabrontes]

Sorry the spread sheet didn't come out very well. I hope it makes sense

On annual mileage of 6000 assuming 24mpg for petrol ((0.85 of this on LPG) then Petrol costs £1867 LPG £1412 (saving £455) and the conversion cost was £1896. Road tax £475 fr petrol £465 for LPG

[artherdaily]

also a RX owner and an rx300

for me when i went to buy it was all about spec and miles

ended up with a 2005 plate RX300 with 48k on it

got the SE-L spec, and more than happy with it

air suspension is a delight as you dont feel a thing

car is quality aswell

upgraded sound system is worth it

and built in satnav, well why not

had one self level switch go on the air suspension already, and the garage replaced that cost for the part alone was over £300, thankfully i didnt have to pay

and a reciept in with all the paperwork for the other self level rear switch having been done last year

fuel wise the cars mainly used around the doors so getting about 18-20mpg

would i rather a 350 or 400, no not really , who cares or even notice's other than another rx owner

[Benz man]

Thank you guys, I really need and and appreciate the input

[katabrontes]

You are very welcome. Good luck with whatever you buy.

[Rx300-SE]

@BENZ_MAN

fitting LPG IS not cheap, I bought a Lexus rx300, 21000miles, 04REG and fitted Prinz LPG system @ cost of £2200 as far back as 2009

its been a pleasure to own an hybrid rx300 (LPG) still using the car and intend to keep it for a while

My next car will be a porchser Cayenne hybrid IJN or another LPG project

I'll recommed you look for a RX350/300 with LPG fitted already, the problem is it might come with high mileage

Goog luck with your search :) ...

[Boxbrownie]

When I bought mine I looked into fitting a Prinz system (then about the best) but the initial cost and running savings involved did not work out as good as I had thought, for my mileage while I was working (about 15000 a year communting) the break even was just over three years then the savings would have started, but really not enough to outway the extra insurance cost, yearly maintenance of the system over and above normal servicing and the fact I could no longer use the Channel Tunnel (a bit of a nuisance) really decided me against the idea, also had read some worrying threads concerning how weak the RX V6 engine can be in the valve department on LPG, of course plenty are converted without problems but apparently the extra lubrication is essential and even then cannot ensure problem free running.

I would have been saving about £400 a year for the past 3 years........so for me over the 7 years I have owned the car £1200 (£171 pa) is not enough of a saving, maybe in 10 years time I will change my mind! :D

[artherdaily]

never really believed in LPG myself,

initial fitting cost

extra insurance

specialist service cost

the fact you still need petrol at start up

and the reduced resale market, as i would not even consider buying a car with one fitted

my own view is i buy a car because i want that car, not because of the fuel costs, maintenance, running, insurance etc etc

im happy with 18mpg

and yes a big V8 petrol will be what replaces the lexus, unless i find a bargain of a diesel

[DanD]

I would tend to agree with the last comments.

By the time you take into consideration all the costs involved (including diminished resale value, insurance, fitting, maintenance, etc etc), and the inconvenience (reduced boot space) and mechanical risks (as documented above), does it still make sense? - I think I would rather put the money towards a 400h.

Still, each to his own. Good luck with it.

What is your budget by the way?

[Rx300-SE]

cost of servicing the LPG system/ year is less than £100 from my experience (filter change and recallibration by hooking system onto laptop)

I've also been able to travell on P&O ferries to Calais enroute paris on several occassion without issue

Yes there is inconvenience (reduced boot space) cos I have to carry spare tyre, but only when travelling on long journeys

and never had problems with valve department on LPG, got flashlube fitted

never had insurance issue

its just the initial fitting cost from my opinnion

Good luck with your search :) ...

[Boxbrownie]

cost of servicing the LPG system/ year is less than £100 from my experience (filter change and recallibration by hooking system onto laptop)

I've also been able to travell on P&O ferries to Calais enroute paris on several occassion without issue

Yes there is inconvenience (reduced boot space) cos I have to carry spare tyre, but only when travelling on long journeys

and never had problems with valve department on LPG, got flashlube fitted

never had insurance issue

its just the initial fitting cost from my opinnion

Good luck with your search :) ...

Yep, the added maintanence isn't a biggy but still eats into the savings each year.....you could get around the spare issue by using runflats if you desire (with monitor system), and all the Ferries will take LPG (AFAIK) but I always use the tunnel, much prefer it so that was a biggy for me, and of course the valve issue is only a problem on a few unfortunate owners not everyone.

With the insurance do you delcare the modification with each renewal? Because when I checked (back in about 2008) almost every company slapped a fair lump on for the mod, and a few wouldn't even quote for the car!

[katabrontes]

Runflats are expensive and giver a very hard ride I understand.

[Boxbrownie]

Runflats are expensive and giver a very hard ride I understand.

Runflats are about 20%-50% more than standard depending upon size (usually width), and the newer generation RoF tyres are now almost comparable to ordinary tyres now (terrible problems with early BMW RoF tyres, which is where the RoF tyres got the bad rep).

You can offset the cost of course because you only need four not five, something people forget.

There are other issues such as if a RoF tyre has been used flat for any length of time at all then it cannot be repaired due to possible hidden damage to the sidewall reinforcement, best to treat them almost as normal tyres and run gently to a tyre depot asap and not leave them flat for too long before repair or replacement.

[artherdaily]

Re runflats, had them on our BMW and to be honest, never noticed any difference in ride,

one thing i will say is handling was excellent as they were premium tyres

had to replace them after 11000 miles as they were ALL worn out

full set of 4, 225 17 front and 235 17 rear was under £600 fitted, which i dont think was too bad for a premium brand

downside is

runflat can only be used for 50 miles max at 50mph

9 times out of a 10 you get a flat, you will have to replace the tyre

still would never buy an LPG

if you cant afford the 18mpg dont buy an 18mpg car

thats always been my opinion

and ie always been a grumpy opinionated old git

[NEV72]

You see Arther I'm going to disagree with you over LPG,mainly because from what I can fathom, you haven't had a car that's actually run on LPG, whereas I can say I have. I purposely chose to get LPG fitted before I even bought my old RX300,back in 08,and that was after doing extensive research, and not listening to some bloke spouting it out in a pub somewhere, who'd maybe got a bum ride, because he hadn't done any research,and find out all the different types of systems available, maybe even finding a company that had actually converted the same car as his, so he could seek reviews from other owners. and possibly chosen some cheap backstreet mob, trying to save a couple of hundred quid.

To be fair this old LPG chestnut has done the rounds a fair old bit now, in fact only yesterday I came across another previous LPG thread, where I'd put my first post in there just after I'd had LPG fitted that's nearly 5 years ago now, with exactly the same stuff bantered about,the do I, don't I brigade, the it'crap, it's good brigade, well I only recently got rid of mine a couple of weeks ago, and can honestly say it was a damn good thing that I had the LPG put in it, the performance was exactly the same as the petrol engine, regardless of the detracters saying it isn't, a bloody cheap round trip up to John O'Groats, from Devon in it, plus the other 80,000 odd miles we did in it, never, ever did it let me down, but it could be because I'd had it fully serviced each year, the LPG system that is,

As for the 18mpg car you say you enjoy, my brother in law has Beckhams old GMC Yukon,a great big 6 litre monster I think it is, when he first bought it, he was getting just 13mpg out of it, he saw how mine was economical, so went for the same system as the onein mine, he still has the monster, and is returning a relevant 26 mpg due to the cost of the LPG compared to petrol. That's my ten bobs worth anyroad.

[Boxbrownie]

As for the 18mpg car you say you enjoy, my brother in law has Beckhams old GMC Yukon,a great big 6 litre monster I think it is, when he first bought it, he was getting just 13mpg out of it, he saw how mine was economical, so went for the same system as the onein mine, he still has the monster, and is returning a relevant 26 mpg due to the cost of the LPG compared to petrol. That's my ten bobs worth anyroad.

Its good you have had a positive experience, and thousands of other motorists have also.......I think we are just pointing out the possible pitfalls.

Although I find it amazing that your BiL car gets over twice as much to the gallon on LPG compared to petrol alone as LPG has a lower energy output and never gives the same mpg as petrol regardless of the system, it can't.....its physics. But also yes it costs slightly under half the cost of petrol but the car has to start using petrol before switching over to LPG, so your not using LPG all the time and your BiL gets over twice the mileage? Hmmmm he had better check his figures.

[NEV72]

No Box I didn't mean the bro in law actually gets 26 mpg from his car due to LPG, I was trying to say that he now gets the financial equivalent to 26mpg due to LPG being half the price of Petrol.

As for using petrol to start the car, yes that's true, but for about the same amount of time it takes for your car heater to warm up from cold, when first starting your car up.

[Boxbrownie]

Yes I understood that you meant the equivalent of 26mpg, but as LPG is only about half the cost of petrol and you use slightly more of it as a result of the lower energy output and you also use petrol to start the car until warm, I don't see how he is getting twice the mileage........I could understand 70-80% better, but 100%..........

Anyhoo I notice that Prins are now doing a cheaper conversion system for around £1K for a 4 cylinder car (much better than the £2300 I was quoted for my RX back in 2008), that starts to make more sense on return, as long as the cheaper version is as reliable as the premium system.

[NEV72]

Well I paid a total of £1750, for mine back in 2008, I did see it as low as £1300 in some other places and as high as £2000, and with mine I had the Flashlube drip system fitted, so as to prevent valve problems, as for £2300 for your quote, does seem pretty steep that, no wonder you dipped out.

For a car that you intend to keep for 2-3 years plus, and you are financially in a position to be able to afford to install LPG, I would definitely recommend fitting LPG, but if you're one of those people that keeps their car for 5 minutes before wanting to change it, ie you get bored, ashtray full, not up to expectations, etc, etc, then no it's not for you.

[Boxbrownie]

You got a very good deal then, or maybe its geographic? I had three quotes from installers here in the SE and the cheapest was £1950 as I recall, but when I visited the "workshop" to check them out it appeared they installed them from a domestic garage!!!!

I did get a lot of useful information from the LPG discussion forum but for me I decided against it, yes by now it would have been in the black, but only by so little its not viable for me, as I said maybe in 10 years time I'll be kicking myself, but then again if the government decide to up the tax on LPG as threatened a few years ago I might still have made the correct choice :D

[Boxbrownie]

Ouch.....out of interest I just checked the LPG prices around here, my closest supplier (about 8 miles away!) is 74p per litre, thats only about 30-35% cheaper than petrol at my local ASDA (1 mile away)...........if I had the conversion done now I reckon it would take about 5-6 years to recoup my outlay

[NEV72]

Aye you could be right, now that the price of LPG per litre has started to shoot up, it's becoming less and less viable to install then make its savings margin in comparison to say 5 years ago, my only regret is that I didn't get on the gravy train and claim a grant, helping towards installation, from the government, that was available just prior to me buying my RX300.

But having moved on and now into the realms of Petrol/Electric Hybridivity, I now find myself facing the usual detractors, but this time with the "electric motah, ranning on battereees, yer having a giraffe in't cha? nah, nah nah it'll never work," amateur wanna be Jeremy Clarkeson types, hopefully in 4-5 years time, I'll be able to post how reliable and economical to run the Hybrid has been for me, just as I've been able to regarding the RX300 with LPG has been, and by then also emoticons will have developed a 'smug git' emoticon.

[Boxbrownie]

Petrol/Electric Hybridivity

I like it.........not sure it is English, but I like it :)

I just missed the grant also, by a few months....made a big difference, the LPG back then would have been viable for my daily commute, but without the grant it took too long to recoup the outlay.

I seriously do not think Hybrid/Electric detractors have a good case any more, the tech is proven and only getting better.

My next purchase will almost definately be electric/petrol hybrid......quite tempted by the BMW i3......need to feel how the driving postion feels first, looks like it is slightly higher than a normal car, just what I like.

Otherwise it could well be a 450h...........but I'd prefer the ratio to be more Battery than petrol hence the interest in the i3.

[artherdaily]

ill stick with putting petrol in my RX, if i have a long journey ill use my 60mpg golf, problem solved

another view point

£2000 would buy a very nice used diesel car that would return in excess of 40mpg, which including tax, insurance etc etc, would probably still work out cheaper than fitting an LPG kit to a RX long term

and means you have a car for you and one for the wife/husband