Todays Ba Flight Cancellation

[Rob]

after todays BA flight to Washington was cancelled they had a FBI spokeswoman on the TV stating why - her statement was along the lines of " well there were some people on the passenger list that had the same names as suspected terrorists" ummm hello!!! wake up lady, people do share names you know, and so what if the names are same - you take that person aside when they check in and interview them - its not hard.

GRRRRRRRR little rant and a vent of steam!

[Fidgits]

Dont get me started Rob.......

BA have now also decided to have undercover armed guards on 'some' transatlantic flights.... yeah, we want to make flying safer, so lets put a rent-a-cop on the plane with a gun!!!!

[Rob]

im sure we all know that they wont be " normal guns" - ie the charge used will be much lower than normal but here is something to ponder over next time ur on a flight, they say that the guns used can still kill someone, so there is still a lot of force there, now the windows are plastic, no laminations etc but shatter resistant and about 9mm thick (you can break one if you hit it hard with a hammer) could it be broken by a low velocity bullet - i think so, also the pressure skin, although very strong is also very easily damaged and is normally about 1.5 - 2mm thick (varies where and on what specific type of aircraft) will a projectile that has enough force to kill someone damage the skin - for sure. " rent a cop after 14 weeks training, no thanks- waits patiently for the first normal passenger to be shot by mistake :o

enjoy your meal sir!

[Monster-Mat]

i think you will find that they are not rent a cop..................

[Fidgits]

i think you will find that they are not rent a cop..................

Well considering BA is independent of the goverment, i would be surprised if any official law enforcement agency, or military personel were used... unless of course, the goverment is charging BA an arm and a leg for them...

[Monster-Mat]

[ColinBarber]

It's nothing to do with BA, they are being forced by the Governments.

[ColinBarber]

Some of these comments are quite funny.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3353811.stm

[Fidgits]

Well to be honest, I'm not sure whats happening with BA, in the case of EL AL, which is still partly owned and controlled by the Israel goverment, the 'air marshalls' are actually soilders who have been trained for this very purpose...

I'd be curious to know who the US airlines use (as well as BA)...

[ColinBarber]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3353297.stm

[Fidgits]

Cheers Colin...

Oh well, a game for the next 11 hour flight to Cali .. spot the air marshall!

[Steve]

it will be the bloke who will be pleased to see you with the bulge in his pants :P :P

[DaveEllen]

I'd be happy if it was a british soldier on my plane. However if it was a an american with their friendly fire record I'd be worried

[Rob]

just in response to a few of the comments on the bbc talking point site.

1.Perhaps some form of bullet-proof shielding inside the passenger compartments could be incorporated into the aircraft design, although resulting in higher travel costs, I'm sure that during an aircrafts lifespan the cost per passenger would be minimal and worth every penny for the extra safety it could provide.

Nigel Mawer, UK -

wont happen as the cost to the airlines will be too great, requires extra type certification by aviation authorities, hey if they banned people smoking on flights because it saves the airlines a few $ in fuel then there is no way they will put ballistic materials over the whole inside of the plane.

2.How many El Al hijacks have there been in the last 20 years? They have had "Sky Marshals" for about that time. Enough said!

Nick S, Crawley UK

ummmm because the security is so great thats why, they screen every single passenger and their baggage even before you get anywhere near the check-in, then the fun really starts but its the safest airline to fly with

3.A bullet hole in a plane will not cause decompression. Modern planes can maintain cabin pressure when missing three windows.

JH, Reading, UK

totally impossible - you telling me that with a hole the equivalent size of approx 3 A4 sheets of paper put together that the air conditioning system can maintain an 8psi pressure differential on top of the required 1lb of air per person per minute - no way

but no matter what you do, the extra security measures wont stop a surface to air missile, as DHL found out in iraq a few months ago CLICK HERE FOR PIC

[tdiplc]

BA have now also decided to have undercover armed guards on 'some' transatlantic flights.... yeah, we want to make flying safer, so lets put a rent-a-cop on the plane with a gun!!!!

Personally I would rather have an armed guard than an armed terrorist on any flight that I was on. I'll take my chances on the possibility of cabin breach over the certainty of death by collision with something hard.

[Fidgits]

2.How many El Al hijacks have there been in the last 20 years? They have had "Sky Marshals" for about that time. Enough said!

Nick S, Crawley UK

ummmm because the security is so great thats why, they screen every single passenger and their baggage even before you get anywhere near the check-in, then the fun really starts but its the safest airline to fly with

Its not just El Al... I fly in and out of Tel Aviv a lot (with BA)... and well, it certainley is interesting..

Getting in is as easy as the US, immigration and customs, thats it...

Getting out!!

Before you can even check-in, you go through a complete security check, ALL your baggage is x-rayed, and you are questioned for about 10-20 mins on your activity while in Israel. (they also have a corner with hospital screens, I NEVER want to find out what goes on there!!!

Then, once checked in, you have to get upstairs, your tickets/bording pass is checked..

Then onto immigration exit, again you are interrigated, and if something doesnt add up, your in trouble. Once, for a 7am flight, they actually phoned the hotel to see if i stayed there as i was saying!

Then finally, to the 'normal' x-ray and metal detector...

[Rob]

Personally I would rather have an armed guard than an armed terrorist on any flight that I was on.

ill have to agree with you there mark. But what i have noticed no one really saying is that if a terrorist is on board, then having a marshall is too late- the system has already failed.

[Fidgits]

BA have now also decided to have undercover armed guards on 'some' transatlantic flights.... yeah, we want to make flying safer, so lets put a rent-a-cop on the plane with a gun!!!!

Personally I would rather have an armed guard than an armed terrorist on any flight that I was on. I'll take my chances on the possibility of cabin breach over the certainty of death by collision with something hard.

I see your point Mark...

However, my point really was, I dont believe a terrorist has managed to sneak a gun onto an airplane thus far...

My concern is that the 'sky-marshall' will be taking a gun on board! not something i relish the prospect of! I'd be much happier if he was armed with a Tazer or something...

[tdiplc]

However, my point really was, I dont believe a terrorist has managed to sneak a gun onto an airplane thus far...

Maybe that because we have some sort of security in place.

However I reckon it's only a matter of time before the inevitable happens.

There have already been a few instances of knives found on people on aircraft. There was even a nutter with a couple of knives on an Easyjet flight from Madrid to London arrested today. Give me an armed guard please.

Mark my words friends - there will be more and worse to come.

[tdiplc]

But what i have noticed no one really saying is that if a terrorist is on board, then having a marshall is too late- the system has already failed.

Yes but I would still like to have some comfort after the initial security has failed.

[ColinBarber]

Last time I flew from London to Edinburgh the person I was travelling had a multitool in his notebook bag which has a couple of very sharpe blades in it. It was seen on the x-ray machine and removed. He was questioned and allowed to post it back to his home address.

He had forgotten about the thing, he keeps it in there all the time and it was in there 2 or 3 times before when he has flown and it was never detected so the security is not as good as some people make out.

[Rob]

a friend of mine at work is Thai, he was bring a few thing back to Switzerland from the UK, he had one of the ceramic knives 9 quite big and very sharp) in his hand luggage they stopped him at the xray machine as they had seen it. conversation went along lines of

security: whats this for?

danaii: cutting stuff

security: why's it in your bag?

danaii: i forgot about it

security:we have to take it from you

danaii: i am staff

security: staff? one minute then- security guy talks to another

danaii: oh ok then here is your knife back

great security eh, and where was this thailand? no UK( believe it was heathrow)

[flotsam]

The security scares like BOTH Gulf wars are bogus. The purpose is to gain support for the illegal wars.

First we had the Heathrow scare where they employed armoured vehicles on the streets which are appropriate for a battlefield. Then we had armed police roaming the streets of Birmingham as if hidden terrorists would jump out and start shooting. Now they've delayed the SAME plane three times over as if the terrorist is daft enough to attack the plane with the spot-light on it.

What they don't tell you is that the US helped Kuwait to steal Iraqi oil, then OK'd the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait; $12bn worth: http://uk.altavista.com/web/results?q=slan...kls=1&avkw=aapt

The US then cooked up a story about satellite photos showing troops building up on the Saudi border and charged the Arab nations to attack Iraq:

http://uk.altavista.com/r?ck_sm=3be119a9&c....com%2Fbush.htm

You guys do remember that these are the same people who told you there were WMD in Iraq don't you? Remember the UN inspectors couldn't find any? Remember they got a dossier from Iraq telling them there were no WMD beforehand?

Fool me once shame on you! Fool me twice shame on me.

[stevebish]

Fluff, you work in the aircraft industry by any chance??

I'm in Tech Support at Britannia Airways!

Steve