ES300H TAKUMI - wheel arch CAN BUS theft

[Tickedon]

10 hours ago, Vadim said:

It appears that the wheel arch can bus method may work by attaching a booster for key fob signal to make computer see the key from where it is at owners property nearby.

 This video suggests there is a way to disable key fob signal broadcasting:

Sadly not. The wheel arch method (and similar headlight method) allows them to access the vehicle’s can bus network. They plug in a device that sends the “unlock doors” and “start engine” messages, which tricks the relevant ECUinto opening the doors, disabling the immobiliser, and starting the engine.

Newer cars utilise encryption on the canbus which stops this working, but not these cars on older platforms.

the key, or a signal from the key, isn’t needed at any point. 

[eightk]

12 hours ago, Vadim said:

I was wondering where these cars go in such quantities with right side drive and “stolen” mark? It should be quite easy to spot the export flows in form of cars or parts. The UK market is not large enough to sell that as spares due to reliability of these cars and cheaply extended dealer warranty which forces to use dealer-supplied parts.

Oh, actually many parts are officially supplied as remanufactured (like hybrid batteries). Just a random thought…

Lexus never again unless they acknowledge the problem, apologise and see into a solution.

Dubai is one destination. I’ve just posted on the RX forum as Essex police have just found another 3 RX in a shipping container.

Re post above no, no key is needed. Canbus injection unlocks and allows the car to be started irrespective of key signal access.

[beyond the blue]

32 minutes ago, eightk said:

Dubai is one destination. I’ve just posted on the RX forum as Essex police have just found another 3 RX in a shipping container.

Re post above no, no key is needed. Canbus injection unlocks and allows the car to be started irrespective of key signal access.

Time to do something about this. Am l correct with my thinking that a Ghost immobilizer would stop theft via the Canbus system? I realise that there are other ways to steal vehicles.

[PDM]

10 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

Time to do something about this. Am l correct with my thinking that a Ghost immobilizer would stop theft via the Canbus system? I realise that there are other ways to steal vehicles.

I believe it stops them starting the car but I don't know - and would like to - if it stops them from being able to unlock the vehicle.

Paul

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

13 hours ago, Vadim said:

Have my car stolen same way recently. The party did not hit the record by far and took whole 4 minutes from arrival to departure - all in front of a visible CCTV system.

 

After the insurance procedures were followed the car was registered as stolen, and any car check clearly shows that.

 

I was wondering where these cars go in such quantities with right side drive and “stolen” mark? It should be quite easy to spot the export flows in form of cars or parts. The UK market is not large enough to sell that as spares due to reliability of these cars and cheaply extended dealer warranty which forces to use dealer-supplied parts.

Oh, actually many parts are officially supplied as remanufactured (like hybrid batteries). Just a random thought…

Lexus never again unless they acknowledge the problem, apologise and see into a solution.

Wait A Moment Though.. Its Not Just Lexus Cars That are being Stolen ALL MAKES AND MODELS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE BEING STOLEN...Representation and Reality Here..Its only because This Platform is focusing on Lexus Cars And should not have any deliberation on Purchasing another lexus in my opinion..Yes Cars could be made more secure.. You could say that about any car But Ultimately its up to Ourselves to make our car more secure and be even more vigilant about where we park it..again My Opinion ONLY

[PDM]

12 minutes ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Wait A Moment Though.. Its Not Just Lexus Cars That are being Stolen ALL MAKES AND MODELS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE BEING STOLEN...Representation and Reality Here..Its only because This Platform is focusing on Lexus Cars And should not have any deliberation on Purchasing another lexus in my opinion..Yes Cars could be made more secure.. You could say that about any car But Ultimately its up to Ourselves to make our car more secure and be even more vigilant about where we park it..again My Opinion ONLY

 

Hi Ronnie - I disagree with you on this one.  Please see what you think to my perspective:

Yes, many makes of vehicle get stolen.  But there are several problems here regards Toyota vehicles specifically:

1. Toyota models (not just Lexus) have an extremely vulnerable wiring loom that CAN (see what I did there...) be rapidly accessed with almost no damage to the car.  This is more vulnerable than other car makers. At least with Range Rover a hole needs to be cut in the body to get to the wiring. And JLR have been doing a recall to add some security into the CAN.

2. Look at the statistics. RX is very high up on theft statistics, as is (gen 1) NX in France I believe. The CAN theft issue came to light in Japan in July 2021 with the theft of a Lexus. This seems to mean that vehicles with a known security flaw were being sold for almost 2 years after the issue was reported. And it's not that vehicles are just getting stolen from "dodgy places". Thieves are steering vehicles directly from people drive ways.  So how can people be more vigilant in parking that on their own drive way?

3. My car is still under its original 3 year warranty, has a massive security flaw and Lexus is, so far, doing very little to improve matters other than putting on two small pieces of steel.  I guess they are too busy working on wireless android auto or finding a new intern to work on Lexus Link Plus.

And if I buy a car and the manufacturer refuses to engage in problems in a timely manner, am I really not going to let this influence my decision to buy another car from them? What happend to the quality that the brand used to display?

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I am happy to agree to disagree with your perspective!

Paul

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

41 minutes ago, PDM said:

 

Hi Ronnie - I disagree with you on this one.  Please see what you think to my perspective:

Yes, many makes of vehicle get stolen.  But there are several problems here regards Toyota vehicles specifically:

1. Toyota models (not just Lexus) have an extremely vulnerable wiring loom that CAN (see what I did there...) be rapidly accessed with almost no damage to the car.  This is more vulnerable than other car makers. At least with Range Rover a hole needs to be cut in the body to get to the wiring. And JLR have been doing a recall to add some security into the CAN.

2. Look at the statistics. RX is very high up on theft statistics, as is (gen 1) NX in France I believe. The CAN theft issue came to light in Japan in July 2021 with the theft of a Lexus. This seems to mean that vehicles with a known security flaw were being sold for almost 2 years after the issue was reported. And it's not that vehicles are just getting stolen from "dodgy places". Thieves are steering vehicles directly from people drive ways.  So how can people be more vigilant in parking that on their own drive way?

3. My car is still under its original 3 year warranty, has a massive security flaw and Lexus is, so far, doing very little to improve matters other than putting on two small pieces of steel.  I guess they are too busy working on wireless android auto or finding a new intern to work on Lexus Link Plus.

And if I buy a car and the manufacturer refuses to engage in problems in a timely manner, am I really not going to let this influence my decision to buy another car from them? What happend to the quality that the brand used to display?

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I am happy to agree to disagree with your perspective!

Paul

No Need to apoligise Paul.. I am always Willing and Eager to listen to other peoples Opinions On relevant Topics And i must Say you make Some very good Comments on this topic I Think Possibly i was Taking a much more Generalised and Considered view On This very subject  You Have obviously done your Homework and in Retrospect Bow to your better Knowledge...Cheers..Ron

[Cs150]

3 hours ago, PDM said:

 

Hi Ronnie - I disagree with you on this one.  Please see what you think to my perspective:

Yes, many makes of vehicle get stolen.  But there are several problems here regards Toyota vehicles specifically:

1. Toyota models (not just Lexus) have an extremely vulnerable wiring loom that CAN (see what I did there...) be rapidly accessed with almost no damage to the car.  This is more vulnerable than other car makers. At least with Range Rover a hole needs to be cut in the body to get to the wiring. And JLR have been doing a recall to add some security into the CAN.

2. Look at the statistics. RX is very high up on theft statistics, as is (gen 1) NX in France I believe. The CAN theft issue came to light in Japan in July 2021 with the theft of a Lexus. This seems to mean that vehicles with a known security flaw were being sold for almost 2 years after the issue was reported. And it's not that vehicles are just getting stolen from "dodgy places". Thieves are steering vehicles directly from people drive ways.  So how can people be more vigilant in parking that on their own drive way?

3. My car is still under its original 3 year warranty, has a massive security flaw and Lexus is, so far, doing very little to improve matters other than putting on two small pieces of steel.  I guess they are too busy working on wireless android auto or finding a new intern to work on Lexus Link Plus.

And if I buy a car and the manufacturer refuses to engage in problems in a timely manner, am I really not going to let this influence my decision to buy another car from them? What happend to the quality that the brand used to display?

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I am happy to agree to disagree with your perspective!

Paul

Very well said, from a personal standpoint being a Lexus owner for one year and new to the brand their lack of action is a disappointment. In my eyes the brand is tarnished with poor dealer experience and a UK division that has badly let their customers down. When my ES is replaced it absolutely will not be with another Lexus vehicle. Even if they acted now and did a recall it is all too late and not good enough.

[DrShockr]

I am very disappointed to report that my car has been stolen, once again, this time neither myself or the police were able to locate it. The car had a full steering wheel lock on at the time. 

Waiting to hear how much the insurance will pay out and getting ready to fork a massive bill for the next 5 years of insurance, given my, soon to be, two very expensive claims. 

One very unhappy camper here, will certainly not be buying another Lexus model, even though I really like their cars. Such a shame that Lexus/Toyota have abandoned their customers like this. 

[Cs150]

39 minutes ago, DrShockr said:

I am very disappointed to report that my car has been stolen, once again, this time neither myself or the police were able to locate it. The car had a full steering wheel lock on at the time. 

Very sorry to hear this, can I ask what steering lock you had on the vehicle?

[DrShockr]

1 hour ago, Cs150 said:

Very sorry to hear this, can I ask what steering lock you had on the vehicle?

Disklok!

[Cs150]

1 hour ago, DrShockr said:

Disklok!

Disklok is the best in the business, even in professional tests it has taken a good while to remove!

[ColinBarber]

45 minutes ago, Cs150 said:

Disklok is the best in the business, even in professional tests it has taken a good while to remove!

They can be cut off in a couple of minutes, quicker still you can just cut off the bar and leave it on and many people get the wrong size which allows them to prise it off.

[Cs150]

12 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

They can be cut off in a couple of minutes, quicker still you can just cut off the bar and leave it on and many people get the wrong size which allows them to prise it off.

Worrying to hear, must need some serious equipment to cut through the bar it appears to be hard steel.

[eightk]

BMW owners on the other hand are finding their wheels are easy to remove - like, completely. Not sure a disclok would stop this 😁

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG8rl9CGoSM&t=54s&ab_channel=StewartClarke

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, eightk said:

Not sure a disclok would stop this 😁

It had one fitted and made it easier to steel as it provided more leverage and stopped the wheel itself being damaged.

[Dippo]

There's an article in today's Sunday Times about someone selling their Range Rover because they couldn't get insurance. Here's a paragraph from the article:

Eight of the ten most frequently stolen car models in the year to February were Range Rovers and Lexus SUVs, according to the government’s Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. The insurer Axa said that Land Rover thefts increased 80 per cent between 2021 and 2022.

They don't give any information on how the data was calculated. 

 

[Cs150]

47 minutes ago, Dippo said:

There's an article in today's Sunday Times about someone selling their Range Rover because they couldn't get insurance. Here's a paragraph from the article:

Eight of the ten most frequently stolen car models in the year to February were Range Rovers and Lexus SUVs, according to the government’s Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. The insurer Axa said that Land Rover thefts increased 80 per cent between 2021 and 2022.

They don't give any information on how the data was calculated. 

 

Lexus near the top of the league, well done Chris Hayes take a bow. I suggest all current Lexus owners see Range Rover depreciation during the last 12 months...

[Navnan2]

1 hour ago, Dippo said:

There's an article in today's Sunday Times about someone selling their Range Rover because they couldn't get insurance. Here's a paragraph from the article:

Eight of the ten most frequently stolen car models in the year to February were Range Rovers and Lexus SUVs, according to the government’s Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. The insurer Axa said that Land Rover thefts increased 80 per cent between 2021 and 2022.

They don't give any information on how the data was calculated. 

 

In my paper JLR are recalling their products for software updates to help against the thefts. Not seen anything similar from Lexus yet!

[LenT]

 

On 11/25/2023 at 10:56 AM, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Its Not Just Lexus Cars That are being Stolen ALL MAKES AND MODELS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE BEING STOLEN.

Not withstanding the specific responsibilities of car makers, I think this is a valid point to make.  It is of course arguable that many makers, such as Lexus, could improve their theft prevention systems - not least to compete with their rivals.

But as far as I am aware - and I stand to be corrected here - there are no equivalent manufacturing standards for theft prevention as there are for passenger protection or car safety.  
For example, Thatcham assess vehicle security and accessories as a guide to Insurers but not as something mandatory for manufacturers.

Take Household Insurance.  My policy stipulates a specific standard of security on different floors.   If they can prove non-compliance it will invalidate a claim.  These days new builds have the Police-promoted ‘Secured by Design’, that establishes standards ranging from safety and the security measures of construction sites to internal and external security standards for domestic dwellings - which includes locks, lighting and alarms.

Different standard levels qualify for different levels of Certification.  

Unfortunately there seems to be no such equivalent for the car industry.   And it has to be appreciated that in many cases it’s the very people who design and install security systems who are best informed as to how to bypass them - generally for perfectly legitimate reasons.  But eventually such knowledge inevitably gets out.

The result is that there is no car that cannot be stolen - as there is no house that cannot be burgled and no bank vault that cannot be penetrated.

So what we have is the usual arms race between owner and thief over possessions - but expecting the possession to do much of the work.  No doubt Lexus could do more to keep pace with criminals - as could the entire motor industry.  

I suspect that the damage done to the brand image by the increasing publicity that Lexus thefts are attracting - and the increasing problem of insurance - that will ultimately be more effective at prompting investment and change than owners’ complaints!

[SH20]

Given it is almost impossible to prevent the theft of any car which thieves are determined to take it must  make a second theft drive an owner to think why bother having a Lexus when Lexus do nothing to make it very hard to steal.

It's my understanding that an i pod Air Tag hidden in the car will work to locate a car as it works off blue tooth and it's signal cannot be blocked. It is my guess DrShockr could not find the car by using the My Lexus App because the car's GPS locator was blocked from transmitting it's position.    I've heard that thieves use a device which plugs directly into the auxiliary socket. It has a pair of antennas  and blocks the car's own GPS locator,  any Tracker fitted or Black Box which Insurance Companies offer policyholders to lower premiums, the black box uses vehicle telematics  to record driving habits, excess speed, harsh braking, young driver types. 

Don't ask me how the device in the aux socket does what it does or how it works because I don't know but the Air Tag is immune from having it's signal blocked.    Just like you might  use an air tag to track anything or anyone from your phone it has to be worth considering.   I'm about to trade my ES in for a LS500h and have ordered an Air Tag  rather than rely on the so called security devices Lexus think are so vital to their cars.   Devices which clearly do not do a good enough job. 

The air tag won't prevent a car's theft but will locate it.   

 

[peniole]

1 hour ago, SH20 said:

Given it is almost impossible to prevent the theft of any car which thieves are determined to take it must  make a second theft drive an owner to think why bother having a Lexus when Lexus do nothing to make it very hard to steal.

It's my understanding that an i pod Air Tag hidden in the car will work to locate a car as it works off blue tooth and it's signal cannot be blocked. It is my guess DrShockr could not find the car by using the My Lexus App because the car's GPS locator was blocked from transmitting it's position.    I've heard that thieves use a device which plugs directly into the auxiliary socket. It has a pair of antennas  and blocks the car's own GPS locator,  any Tracker fitted or Black Box which Insurance Companies offer policyholders to lower premiums, the black box uses vehicle telematics  to record driving habits, excess speed, harsh braking, young driver types. 

Don't ask me how the device in the aux socket does what it does or how it works because I don't know but the Air Tag is immune from having it's signal blocked.    Just like you might  use an air tag to track anything or anyone from your phone it has to be worth considering.   I'm about to trade my ES in for a LS500h and have ordered an Air Tag  rather than rely on the so called security devices Lexus think are so vital to their cars.   Devices which clearly do not do a good enough job. 

The air tag won't prevent a car's theft but will locate it.   

 

Air tags are not immune. Since they've been linked to being used by stalkers, you can scan for tags that do not belong to you to counter the stalking problem. There's even an android app from apple to detect them. The only thing so far that hasn't been countered is a VHF tracker, they still need to physically tear it out. They are dormant so can't be detected, you only activate them once the car is gone. Although thiefs are wise to them too, and tear through wiring sometimes especially if it's a second theft and the first time the car was located. Hence the whole leave be car somewhere routine is still done.

[Cs150]

Insurance is going to rocket for these vehicles, after all the thefts aiming to offload mine before Christmas. One year of ownership is enough to get rid. Not due to the car having any issues the ES is a fine vehicle but due to poor dealers and thefts add in Lexus UK being completely silent. Values already appear to be heading significantly South quite possibly due to the word being out on the weak security.

[ColinBarber]

1 minute ago, Cs150 said:

Values already appear to be heading significantly South quite possibly due to the word being out on the weak security.

The used car market has taken a bit of a beating over the last couple of months so it is probably more related to that but yes, once insurance renewals start going crazy then ES values will drop.

[NICO1972]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:13 PM, DrShockr said:

I am very disappointed to report that my car has been stolen, once again, this time neither myself or the police were able to locate it. The car had a full steering wheel lock on at the time. 

Waiting to hear how much the insurance will pay out and getting ready to fork a massive bill for the next 5 years of insurance, given my, soon to be, two very expensive claims. 

One very unhappy camper here, will certainly not be buying another Lexus model, even though I really like their cars. Such a shame that Lexus/Toyota have abandoned their customers like this. 

I am so sorry to hear about your car situation! Really is awful. I hear that quite a few Lexus cars are being stolen in London at the moment. The Police must know the numbers and so does Lexus. It is so frustrating to hear. It may be in Dover in one of the containers on its way to Middle East or Africa (sadly)...