Speed Cameras M42 West Midlands

[gary cooper]

Everyone beware the mandatory speed limits are now in force between junction 3 M40 split and junction 7 M6 Split on the M42, The cameras are located behind the speed limit signs on the overhead gantries and are now being used.

I think the cameras flash when dark but i have not seen them flash in daylight or it is because everyone is sticking to the speed limits.

[Kremmen]

Just for info

PocketGPS have a downloadable series of 'safety camera' databases.

>> HERE <<

The .csv version will load into Autoroute. It shows all known cameras by type and location and the .csv version will load into Autoroute via the autoroute data import wizard. The other versions of the database are for the various SatNav systems.

I have loaded the .OV2 files into my TomTom and they work a treat with advance warning.

[adz]

I have to use this stretch on my weekly Derby/ Bournemoth commute.

It's a nightmare,my Snooper is going like the clappers all the time on that section ( even where there's no gatso) so there's other "Safety" devices helping the world be a safer place too.

Everyone goes bang on 70 though, except for the people in nicked/ ringed/ cloned cars (ie. real criminals) who are free to go as fast as they like as there's hardly any traffic police on the road anymore.

[lexus boy]

Yeah they have been under test for a while

were fitted quite a while ago, didnt know whenn they were going on though

[Andy_F]

Complete load of bollocks those things, they don't help to reduce congestion at all. I just came through them about an hour ago, and its damn frustrating when they are limiting 50 and theres absolutely nothing around. And also, why does it seem like i'm the only one sticking to the limits?

[Rillo]

didn't these start as temporary roadwork cameras??

[Andy_F]

Yep, now they are using them as a permanent measure to 'reduce congestion'. My arse. Our road networks are getting ridiculous, where else in the world is there be a speedlimit of 40mph on a 3 lane motorway?

[Jiberjaber]

Sorry chaps, there not there to directly reduce congestions, they are there to keep the speed to a safe level whilst in hard shoulder running, which will be happening on that section...

Oh and by the way, what spped do you think that a motorway is most efficient at (as in maximum through put..) ???

40MPH!!!

[Andy_F]

Why are the limits in use but not the hard shoulder then?

I find it hard to believe that 40mph is the best. You're telling me that if you took two completely random pieces of motorway, 1 at 70mph and the other at 40mph, that the 40mph one would have more cars pass through? Doesn't really make sense to me, but then again, not much does generally.

[Jiberjaber]

Yup, strange but true, 40mph is the speed at which you get maximum through put :)

The ATM scheme is due for phased implementation. HADECS is part of that, but also part of the controlled motorways (ala M25). It will also be installed shortly on the new widened section of the M25 for T5 Heathrow.

Controlled Motorways were one of the ways of controlling throughput on the network, there are other schemes (which may be due for ministerial announcement soon) which are also being introduced. Can't say any more ;)

[Rillo]

who came up with the 40 mph stuff?? Surely lots of cars doing 70 is greater throughput than lots of cars doing 40?? Otherwise by not movin at all I'd get to work sooner!? :P

This just sounds like the usual cobblers local government trot out to justify their existence.....

[ashpilot]

Since they where notified as live on the 28th Nov, there seems to be a perminent 60/50 limit just after birmingham airport. Perhaps generating cash to pay for the system.

The reduced speed limits and motorway signs are only as good as the muppets driving them. How many times have you slowed down for the signs to find no reason for it. If the Govt are going to use these measures then get some more people to drive them in the control centres. With all the false alarms and incorrectly switched on warning signs I tend to ignore them (except the camera types)but drive with caution. What the point of having signs that people are going to ignore.

Rant over.

[Kremmen]

Just under 2 years ago when the western section of the M25 was normally 70mph queues soon built up from around 16:00

When the roadworks were due to commence they put in place a 40mph limit with roadside cameras in plain view. The roadworks didn't actually start immediately so we had the situation with a 40mph limit, enforced by cameras with no roadworks.

For that period of time the motorway flowed smoothly and even a Friday evening when it was normally gridlock was running with no holdups.

Other people I know also commented at the time that they should employ a well policed 40mph when necessary.

[wireless]

I don't use the M42 but was curious and found this description of the system:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/.../consult/01.htm

Being a sad git, I went on to find out about HADECS and found this document regarding the M25 scheme:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press_rele...mary_report.pdf

Until I read the above, I thought that the effect of the ATM (active traffic management) on the M25 was very positive, except when speeds were incorrectly set. I have experienced journeys where the traffic flowed freely in the 40 MPH zone but was stop-start when I left it. However, it seems that the real benefits are quite small and, in some cases, there is no benefit. Even if you don't wade through the whole document, take a look at the summary, Table 2A. Here's one extract:

"There has been no increase in the peak 1-hour throughput. However, the total throughputs during the 5-hour peak periods on the M25 Junctions 15-16 have increased by approximately 1.5%. There will be a benefit if this greater demand can be accommodated without a drop in performance."

There are safety benefits in the reduced severity of accidents but most other effects are much smaller than I imagined. Maybe I was a victim of spin? The report does support Rillo's comment

This just sounds like the usual cobblers local government trot out to justify their existence.....

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However, it does also show that if the speeds are set correctly it ATM can work.

[Kazi]

Everyone beware the mandatory speed limits are now in force between junction 3 M40 split and junction 7 M6 Split on the M42, The cameras are located behind the speed limit signs on the overhead gantries and are now being used.

I think the cameras flash when dark but i have not seen them flash in daylight or it is because everyone is sticking to the speed limits.

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Its a joke in this day and age that the speed limit is 70mph along motorways. This causes majoy problems for comuters and other heavy rad users.

That site is a good find though, although I have a Snooper with updates available and a NavMan with old Gatso data on, i'll be updating this now! Cheers :D

[Monster-Mat]

i cant work out if my pocket GPS is catered for...........

[Jiberjaber]

I don't use the M42 but was curious and found this description of the system:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/.../consult/01.htm

Being a sad git, I went on to find out about HADECS and found this document regarding the M25 scheme:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press_rele...mary_report.pdf

Until I read the above, I thought that the effect of the ATM (active traffic management) on the M25 was very positive, except when speeds were incorrectly set.  I have experienced journeys where the traffic flowed freely in the 40 MPH zone but was stop-start when I left it. However, it seems that the real benefits are quite small and, in some cases, there is no benefit. Even if you don't wade through the whole document, take a look at the summary, Table 2A. Here's one extract:

"There has been no increase in the peak 1-hour throughput. However, the total throughputs during the 5-hour peak periods on the M25 Junctions 15-16 have increased by approximately 1.5%. There will be a benefit if this greater demand can be accommodated without a drop in performance."

There are safety benefits in the reduced severity of accidents but most other effects are much smaller than I imagined.  Maybe I was a victim of spin? The report does support Rillo's comment 

This just sounds like the usual cobblers local government trot out to justify their existence.....

←

However, it does also show that if the speeds are set correctly it ATM can work.

←

It's not HADECS on the M25 (yet!)... it is just a Controlled Motorway (in fact it was the original pilot scheme!)... HADECS will be going in on the new section related to the Heathrow T5 works.

Half the battle with motorways is the prevention of flow breakdown. Once fb occurs the motorway takes hours to recover due to the hysterisis of the effect. Take the M6 for example, when ramp metering was working correctly on there, it meant that the morning peak recovered to normal flow before the evening peak.... without the ramp metering on, the flow broke during the morning peak and never recovered untill well after the evening peak....

Controlled Motorways and Ramp Metering will become a norm with a year or so... ;) we'll all whinge about the fact we can't go faster than 60mph, but our journey times will get more reliable, which cant be a bad thing after all... unless you want to risk your journey taking 3 hours or 6 hours "depending on traffic" to get to the same location! :)

opps I have said too much again!

[Rillo]

Assuming you believe the "traffic flows better at 40" theory, the thing that pees motorists off is that once these variable limits are in place they do anything but vary. As an example the M25 will have it's "variable" limits set to apparently random values on Christmas day when traffic is almost non existent.

[wireless]

Half the battle with motorways is the prevention of flow breakdown.  Once fb occurs the motorway takes hours to recover due to the hysterisis of the effect.

The 2004 report states:

"There has been a 9% reduction in the amount of time the flow on the anticlockwise

carriageway is broken down, and a 3% reduction in the number of flow breakdowns

occurring."

That doesn't seem like much to me. What does it mean in real terms?

My original post was to express surprise at how small the improvements were when ATM was introduced. I also wonder why reports like this are not picked apart by the media (or did I miss it?).

Take the M6 for example, when ramp metering was working correctly on there, it meant that the morning peak recovered to normal flow before the evening peak.... without the ramp metering on, the flow broke during the morning peak and never recovered untill well after the evening peak.... 

The odd times I have seen the M6, it seems much worse than the M25 - maybe it is a vision of the M25 in a few years. When traffic on the M25 reaches the same level as the M6, perhaps the effect of its ATM will be much greater.

Controlled Motorways and Ramp Metering will become a norm with a year or so... ;) we'll all whinge about the fact we can't go faster than 60mph, but our journey times will get more reliable, which cant be a bad thing after all... unless you want to risk your journey taking 3 hours or 6 hours "depending on traffic" to get to the same location! :)

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I'm strongly in favour of well implemented measures and much prefer a reliable journey time. However, the random nature of some motorway restrictions reduces the overall credibility significantly.

None of this will matter soon. Once the ANPR system is rolled out nationwide, we will be much safer in every respect and the traffic will flow freely. Most people, except those outside the law, will lose their licences through a few lapses in compliance. (I know, if you are not paying attention, you a not driving with due care..)

Rant over.

[lexus boy]

Well if people were tought how to drive on motorways it wouldnt be a problem

Reason being....get rid of middle laners.......and the brake light effect.