What Are The Dangers Of Driving Without Traction Control Off (trc)

[inflames]

Guys i always turn the trc off! its more fun!!!! I only leave it on when the weather is realy bad or if iam just having a gentle drive. I havent driven my is200 in the snow yet, but it will be intresting to see if the back end slides out as much as my old mr2 mk1 did. I use to drive it in all weather every day and that was a 20year old car with no trc ect to keep it on the road!

[E910]

TRC is for babies, when you grow up you drive with it off

On a serious note, I find TRC more of a hindrance than a help so I always turn it off. I seems to cut in just when you down want it to & I find that more dangerous than letting the rear wheels spin a bit. Oh & less fun :winky:

[arty-is200sport]

TRC off every time, I'm trying to find a wiring dodge to turn off the TRC automatically rather than ON!! every time i start the engine, anybody done this before.

TRC. OFF!! OFF!! OFF!! SIDEWAYS IS THE BEST WAY!

[James S]

Probably going to get some stick for this, but I quite like it, haven't been driving for long (less then a year).

And it means I can crack on with learning how a rwd car behaves without flying backwards into a ditch!

But to be honest unless its wet, there isn't enough power in an IS200 to really get you in trouble on a public road un-less you are driving like an absolute :tsktsk: !!!!

So traction control stays on un-less I want to light up rear wheels.

James

[jsj24uk]

Probably going to get some stick for this, but I quite like it, haven't been driving for long (less then a year).

And it means I can crack on with learning how a rwd car behaves without flying backwards into a ditch!

But to be honest unless its wet, there isn't enough power in an IS200 to really get you in trouble on a public road un-less you are driving like an absolute :tsktsk: !!!!

So traction control stays on un-less I want to light up rear wheels.

James

If you really want to learn about rear wheel drive, have a go on a skid pan. That way, when you do explore that very fine line between almost having the back end let go and ending up in someones living room, you won't hurt yourself, anyone else and your lovely IS200 will remain in the same condition as it left Japan.

TRC OFF is somthing you really don't want to explore too much in an LS430. It may weigh the best part of two tonnes, but it can leave a fat number 11 going up the road with the best of them. Although, I did once do a doughnut on a very wet and grassey field with the TRC off. That was fun if you don't mind cleaning off cow pooh for days after.

[DimitrisTS]

TRC off every time, I'm trying to find a wiring dodge to turn off the TRC automatically rather than ON!! every time i start the engine, anybody done this before.

TRC. OFF!! OFF!! OFF!! SIDEWAYS IS THE BEST WAY!

+1

if you find a way to auto turn off TRC when starting, please let us know..

[fjcfarrar]

TRC is for babies, when you grow up you drive with it off

On a serious note, I find TRC more of a hindrance than a help so I always turn it off. I seems to cut in just when you down want it to & I find that more dangerous than letting the rear wheels spin a bit. Oh & less fun :winky:

The IS200 has to be about the easiest car in the world to drive hard, and given the limited power, like its German competitors, really flatters drivers who often believe that at the limit they can detect and control better than TRC. The designers know for certain that such people are rare and exceptional because the speeds etc. for the various conditions are so high that the limit is very sudden. 99.9% of drivers have no hope of correcting as well or as fast as TRC, so something horrible is going to happen. What is really needed is even better TRC. Otherwise heaven help us all if such drivers ever get a powerful car.

On the IS200, if the TRC light stays out, it isn't doing anything and it doesn't affect the throttle response except on "Snow" - so it is the same as being off anyway except in some drivers' minds. If it flicks on briefly, it isn't doing much or for long so won't slow you down, but might help you to stay pointing the right way. If it stays on, it teaches you that the car is beyond the point where the majority can cope; and unless there is a lot of space around, an accident is likely. To learn to drive nearly as well as TRC will let you, you need plenty of practice in wide open spaces plus someone elses' car to wreck. To practice on the open roads is all most people can manage and we can't afford the carnage.

This all fairly obvious and raises the question: Should the driving test include an IQ test? :tsktsk:

[Rez89]

some people may find this topic "silly" but each to their own opinion!

but for me its has been really usefull and i will now know what to do with the TRC now.

thanks for all the info guys.

[colbecoz]

TRC is for babies, when you grow up you drive with it off

On a serious note, I find TRC more of a hindrance than a help so I always turn it off. I seems to cut in just when you down want it to & I find that more dangerous than letting the rear wheels spin a bit. Oh & less fun :winky:

The IS200 has to be about the easiest car in the world to drive hard, and given the limited power, like its German competitors, really flatters drivers who often believe that at the limit they can detect and control better than TRC. The designers know for certain that such people are rare and exceptional because the speeds etc. for the various conditions are so high that the limit is very sudden. 99.9% of drivers have no hope of correcting as well or as fast as TRC, so something horrible is going to happen. What is really needed is even better TRC. Otherwise heaven help us all if such drivers ever get a powerful car.

On the IS200, if the TRC light stays out, it isn't doing anything and it doesn't affect the throttle response except on "Snow" - so it is the same as being off anyway except in some drivers' minds. If it flicks on briefly, it isn't doing much or for long so won't slow you down, but might help you to stay pointing the right way. If it stays on, it teaches you that the car is beyond the point where the majority can cope; and unless there is a lot of space around, an accident is likely. To learn to drive nearly as well as TRC will let you, you need plenty of practice in wide open spaces plus someone elses' car to wreck. To practice on the open roads is all most people can manage and we can't afford the carnage.

This all fairly obvious and raises the question: Should the driving test include an IQ test? :tsktsk:

This is a really good reply. I'm not blowing my trumpet as an Advanced Driver (IAM member), but it clearly says common sense, safety and driving within the ability of the car, the driver and weather and road conditions. Maybe some would like to try some research and find the IAM system of car control??? Anyway, that apart, we buy cars to enjoy them, so, if yer want sto be a bit silly, go find a track or old airfield and have some fun.....

Col.. :winky: :winky:

[arty-is200sport]

This all fairly obvious and raises the question: Should the driving test include an IQ test?

NO!! but it should it should include skid pan driver training, in my early days all we had was rear wheel drive cars with out TRC, so we had no choice other than to learn how to drive in a skid, Skid pan is a major missing element of the driving test.IMO!

[griderjn]

since everyone else is chiming in, i might as well too.

i am with arty-is200sport, i have almost always owned RWD cars/trucks.

and to my knowledge this is the first one with TRC or any type of traction control.

In fact, i had an MR2 turbo with basically my same engine, and it did not have TRC.

and like the transporter says, magic buttons only exist in fairy tales.

but if a magic button is what it takes to give yourself the confidence to drive your car very fast,

by all means, carry on, makes mine worth more when yours are all wrecked.

incidentally, if any of you do figure out how to defeat it permanently, let me know, i would be interested in doing the mod.

[arty-is200sport]

this is one possible solution to turn TRC of sort of semi permanent but still with the option of having it on

1, find the TRC fuse and pull it out, then solder 2 piece's of wire one to either side of the fuse holder, at the other end of the wire's attach a simple on / off breaker switch ,then on either 1 off the wire's put an in-line fuse just for protection.

sounds to simple to be true but i cant see why it wont work.

leave the switch in the off position and it will just be like having no fuse in the TRC,

(DISCLAIMER DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK, ITS NOT TESTED YET)

MMMMMM!!!! this mite not be as easy as i made it sound, Ive just been having a ratchet through the wiring diagram and the TRC appears to be linked in whith the ABS.

[fjcfarrar]

This all fairly obvious and raises the question: Should the driving test include an IQ test?

NO!! but it should it should include skid pan driver training, in my early days all we had was rear wheel drive cars with out TRC, so we had no choice other than to learn how to drive in a skid, Skid pan is a major missing element of the driving test.IMO!

Completely agree about skid-pan or even learning on any empty airfield! When I started driving, all cars were RWD apart from the odd Citroen, and had terrible suspension, rotten brakes and skinny tyres. If you pushed them at all they were always on the verge of losing it; so everybody learnt the hard way the skills involved in keeping cars going in the direction you wanted and what happened if you failed. But then, the roads were unbelievably empty compared with now and you could go into a skids etc without much chance of hurting anybody else or doing a lot of damage - because it didn't take much speed to get you into trouble.

Currently these skills just don't get learnt because cars are so much better - so drivers are now that much less capable. You only have to look at most people's pathetic efforts when there is a sprinkle of snow. Lacking experience and skill in controlling cars near today's higher speed limits of adhesion is a good reason for effective TRC. As always, we all think we are better drivers than we actually are, and imagine that we can outdo systems that react and correct before we even notice there is a problem. IS 200 TRC isn't the greatest and there are now better systems, but it is still more effective than most drivers who think they are better than it. Too many seem prepared to be a hazard to other people finding this out!

[arty-is200sport]

yes TRC is a good thing but unfortunately it gives a false sens of security to sum driver making them believe they can drive much faster than they usually would or have the capability to, ITS A GOOD THING IN THE RIGHT HANDS.

ITS GOOD/ITS BAD

[Parthiban]

I have no problem with people using TRC or not, I just think this thread is silly.

However it's only because it's the IS200 that I don't mind, because it has pretty good grip and low power, so in the dry it doesn't really do anything anyway. In anything more powerful though, I think you're a moron if you turn the traction/stability control off - yes people survived for many years without it but that doesn't mean its not an essential tool.

Also agree about the driving test stuff, it should be a lot more stringent - ours is ridiculous without even any motorway driving involved.........

Simple question though, would we be having the same discussion about ABS?

[arty-is200sport]

BUT!!! whats the point buying big powerful cars if we need a computer to drive them for us, i thought the pleasure was in driving them for or ourselves

(Jame's!! bring the car around and take me to town)

[Monster-Mat]

if you find a way to auto turn off TRC when starting, please let us know..

its a simple mod......

[fjcfarrar]

BUT!!! whats the point buying big powerful cars if we need a computer to drive them for us, i thought the pleasure was in driving them for or ourselves

(Jame's!! bring the car around and take me to town)

If you have an IS200, you haven't got a powerful car, but even so, are public roads with no safety net (ie TRC permanently off) the best place to find out what you can achieve and what happens when you go too far - when TRC would probably save you. With a powerful car and no TRC it is even easier to make a silly mistake, in fact much easier to make the mistake than not. By all means have fun on the track when safety, consequences and everything else is just down to you.

TRC is just a safety feature like ABS, disk brakes and steering that works. It should be used at all times on the roads both to protect you and other road users from the consequences of you not being as good at getting out of a dangerous situation as the protective systems. You may be good but not superman - but in terms of speed of response to the onset of loss of control, good TRC is! For example it can help prevent a skid in 1/100th of the time it would take you to even notice one was starting. It is an example of what is known as progress - not the nanny state trying to spoil your fun.

[inflames]

This thread has seemed to go from just a simple question to a very silly debate.

I am one of those who likes to turn it off and have a bit of fun but only when its quite. But at the end of the day i think that most people on here are sensible are drive to the road condistions and like me leave it turned on in bad weather etc.

Come on guys its just comes down to personal preference!

[DimitrisTS]

if you find a way to auto turn off TRC when starting, please let us know..

its a simple mod......

Mat, can you please inform me how to do it?

Thank you very much in advance!

[PHILLP]

This thread has seemed to go from just a simple question to a very silly debate.

I am one of those who likes to turn it off and have a bit of fun but only when its quite. But at the end of the day i think that most people on here are sensible are drive to the road condistions and like me leave it turned on in bad weather etc.

Come on guys its just comes down to personal preference!

I agree with you pal, some people on here like myself like to have a general chat and fun and some people take it Too serious, with the "thats what TRC is made for". we aint going to spend all our hard worked money to go and crash our pride and joy, and like you say we have fun when we know its safe!

[griderjn]

http://www.toyota-europe.com/innovation/te.../gloss_trc.aspx

"TRC = Traction Control System

When TRC detects wheel spin in the driving wheels during acceleration it automatically reduces engine power to suppress the spin and restore traction. This ensures better power transfer to the road (saving fuel), gives your tyres a longer life, and adds to overall safety. At the same time, TRC also controls the brake system to reduce the torque transmitted to the road, should it be higher than the road/tyre friction available."

Handy feature... but much like the buttons on the collar of a button-up shirt,

if you know how to fold your collar down, then you don't really need the buttons,

nice to have, sometimes even looks neat,

but does it really do anything all that special,

which you should already be able to do for yourself?

[The Transporter]

I agree with you pal, some people on here like myself like to have a general chat and fun and some people take it Too serious, with the "thats what TRC is made for". we aint going to spend all our hard worked money to go and crash our pride and joy, and like you say we have fun when we know its safe!

Hmmm.... With all due respect, you have already stated that you have tried to race an M3, something which your judgement should have told you was both futile and dangerous so I would question your abillity to know when something is safe or not.. Plenty of folk blow loads of cash on a car only to stuff it, there are plenty of examples of guys here on this site who have wrecked their pride and joy, did they not buy their cars with hard earned cash?

[PHILLP]

I agree with you pal, some people on here like myself like to have a general chat and fun and some people take it Too serious, with the "thats what TRC is made for". we aint going to spend all our hard worked money to go and crash our pride and joy, and like you say we have fun when we know its safe!

Hmmm.... With all due respect, you have already stated that you have tried to race an M3, something which your judgement should have told you was both futile and dangerous so I would question your abillity to know when something is safe or not.. Plenty of folk blow loads of cash on a car only to stuff it, there are plenty of examples of guys here on this site who have wrecked their pride and joy, did they not buy their cars with hard earned cash?

Road was straight and weather was safe, put my foot down on setting off and then let him go as it obviously would have been pointless.

ive been driving for nearly 7 years, no points, no crashes, not even been pulled...like i say im safe but some people need to chill and not take every conversation on this site so serious

pp

[E910]

TRC is for babies, when you grow up you drive with it off

On a serious note, I find TRC more of a hindrance than a help so I always turn it off. I seems to cut in just when you down want it to & I find that more dangerous than letting the rear wheels spin a bit. Oh & less fun :winky:

The IS200 has to be about the easiest car in the world to drive hard, and given the limited power, like its German competitors, really flatters drivers who often believe that at the limit they can detect and control better than TRC. The designers know for certain that such people are rare and exceptional because the speeds etc. for the various conditions are so high that the limit is very sudden. 99.9% of drivers have no hope of correcting as well or as fast as TRC, so something horrible is going to happen. What is really needed is even better TRC. Otherwise heaven help us all if such drivers ever get a powerful car.

On the IS200, if the TRC light stays out, it isn't doing anything and it doesn't affect the throttle response except on "Snow" - so it is the same as being off anyway except in some drivers' minds. If it flicks on briefly, it isn't doing much or for long so won't slow you down, but might help you to stay pointing the right way. If it stays on, it teaches you that the car is beyond the point where the majority can cope; and unless there is a lot of space around, an accident is likely. To learn to drive nearly as well as TRC will let you, you need plenty of practice in wide open spaces plus someone elses' car to wreck. To practice on the open roads is all most people can manage and we can't afford the carnage.

This all fairly obvious and raises the question: Should the driving test include an IQ test? :tsktsk:

I think you're confusing the basic TRC that toyota/lexus use in the Altezza/IS with DSC. All it does is cut power to the rear wheels when it sensors that the rear wheels are spinning faster than they should be. Generally I find it does it at the most inappropriate & dangerous time. No power when you most need most it ain't going to steer you away from that ditch in a hurry. The factory LSD does a better job of controlling traction than TRC will ever do IMO, that & decent tyres.

this is one possible solution to turn TRC of sort of semi permanent but still with the option of having it on

1, find the TRC fuse and pull it out, then solder 2 piece's of wire one to either side of the fuse holder, at the other end of the wire's attach a simple on / off breaker switch ,then on either 1 off the wire's put an in-line fuse just for protection.

sounds to simple to be true but i cant see why it wont work.

leave the switch in the off position and it will just be like having no fuse in the TRC,

(DISCLAIMER DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK, ITS NOT TESTED YET)

MMMMMM!!!! this mite not be as easy as i made it sound, Ive just been having a ratchet through the wiring diagram and the TRC appears to be linked in whith the ABS.

See if you can make any sense of these

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...%3Den%26tl%3Dja

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...%3Den%26tl%3Dja

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...%3Den%26tl%3Dja