Ls430 Gearbox Failure

[pheobe]

Hi just some sad info that may prom't members to check one or two things I bought a ls430 six months ago with 103k miles on clock the ATF was disscoloured and members advised oil/filter change which I had done via a LEXUS dealer not cheap but properly done. 2k later a total failure of gearbox due to water in box (cooler failed) investigation by LEXUS shows totaly knackered g/box so keep a close eye ATF and cooling water colour and levels. Will be looking for air cooler if I get it back on road.

Not sure how to proceed can't afford new box or rebuild had extended warranty but a very fast backpeddling from them when informed of potential claim all sorts of clauses that I should have picked up on I supose but not to obvious when first read so beware of this as well.

Totally p_ _ _ _ d off Pheobe

[steve2006]

Sorry to hear of such a major and potentially expensive problem with your relatively newly purchased LS430.

I suppose in theory it's a good idea to intercool the tranmission fluid but not when the thing breaks down and allows the 2 to mix, I would assume the water pressure is higher than the transmission fluid pressure so it goes only one way and it can't be an easy thing to check for contamination.

The most cost effective route but still expensive would be to get hold of a good used transmission from a breaker but how common these are I don't know but it may be worth trying the internet breakers who do the searching for you and then come back with availability and prices, it would also be cheaper to have the job of fitting done by a local independant.

Typical response from the warranty people I guess,if there's a get out clause they will find it but always worth asking if they will contribute towards the cost.

What were the reasons they rejected your claim?

[dave1]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

[ambermarine]

Hi just some sad info that may prom't members to check one or two things I bought a ls430 six months ago with 103k miles on clock the ATF was disscoloured and members advised oil/filter change which I had done via a LEXUS dealer not cheap but properly done. 2k later a total failure of gearbox due to water in box (cooler failed) investigation by LEXUS shows totaly knackered g/box so keep a close eye ATF and cooling water colour and levels. Will be looking for air cooler if I get it back on road.

Not sure how to proceed can't afford new box or rebuild had extended warranty but a very fast backpeddling from them when informed of potential claim all sorts of clauses that I should have picked up on I supose but not to obvious when first read so beware of this as well.

Totally p_ _ _ _ d off Pheobe

I am a little bit suspicious, this car obviously had this problem when you bought it and I would be having a word with the vendor .I would also be a bit dissapointed in your Lexus dealership in not identifing the watered transmission fluid when they changed it ,did they do a complete change 8 litres or just change the pan contents either way there would have been enough in a container to see the contamination.

Lexus will say the box is knackered as they do not do repairs just replace I would find a good independant transmission specialist and get a second opinion before you spend any money on anything.

[pheobe]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

[pheobe]

Hi just some sad info that may prom't members to check one or two things I bought a ls430 six months ago with 103k miles on clock the ATF was disscoloured and members advised oil/filter change which I had done via a LEXUS dealer not cheap but properly done. 2k later a total failure of gearbox due to water in box (cooler failed) investigation by LEXUS shows totaly knackered g/box so keep a close eye ATF and cooling water colour and levels. Will be looking for air cooler if I get it back on road.

Not sure how to proceed can't afford new box or rebuild had extended warranty but a very fast backpeddling from them when informed of potential claim all sorts of clauses that I should have picked up on I supose but not to obvious when first read so beware of this as well.

Totally p_ _ _ _ d off Pheobe

I am a little bit suspicious, this car obviously had this problem when you bought it and I would be having a word with the vendor .I would also be a bit dissapointed in your Lexus dealership in not identifing the watered transmission fluid when they changed it ,did they do a complete change 8 litres or just change the pan contents either way there would have been enough in a container to see the contamination.

Lexus will say the box is knackered as they do not do repairs just replace I would find a good independant transmission specialist and get a second opinion before you spend any money on anything.

I doubt if the vendor would be inerested they never even returned my calls when asking about the spare key.It's way to far to travel to argue. In fairness to Lexus the car completed some 2k miles since oil change and I did check colour myself after a while and it looked ok I do think it was a sudden cooler failure but I doubt if I will ever know thank you for your interest

[steve2006]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

I think you will find that the Sales of Goods Act coveres secondhand vehicles bought from motor dealers and dispite the usual "Sold as seen no warranty given or implied" which does not mean a thing in law you have a minimum of six months warranty on the car under the must be fit for purpose section.

Contact the vendor and test the water, if you get a negative response mention Trading Standands and then contact them.

Also as mentioned I would ask why trained Lexus mechanics are unable to diagnose a contamination problem of the ATF when they replaced it.

Have a read below regarding the 6 months warranty.

"If you take the vehicle back within six months of buying it, the dealer should accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold and offer to repair or replace it. If the dealer doesn't accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold, they will have to prove this."

Full details are on the link below under buying from a dealer including the section quoted above.

According to this you have the right to return the car to the dealer for repairs to be carried out at their expense or ask for a refund taking into account you have had the car for 5 months.

The dealer has to prove the car was not defective when you bought it ( very difficult to do) it is NOT up to you to prove it was so don't get embroiled in an argument as to who is responsible, it is always the dealer.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm#you_bought_the_vehicle_from_a_dealer

Do not give up the law is on your side and there are plenty of options to look into, we recently had another member involved in a faulty transmission after a dealer repair which resulted in a "burnt out transmission" The last we heard they had under pressure replaced the transmission for free.

Finally kep a note of dates and times of contact with any 3rd party and send any written correspondence by Recorded Delivery keeping the receipts to hand.

[pheobe]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

I think you will find that the Sales of Goods Act coveres secondhand vehicles bought from motor dealers and dispite the usual "Sold as seen no warranty given or implied" which does not mean a thing in law you have a minimum of six months warranty on the car under the must be fit for purpose section.

Contact the vendor and test the water, if you get a negative response mention Trading Standands and then contact them.

Also as mentioned I would ask why trained Lexus mechanics are unable to diagnose a contamination problem of the ATF when they replaced it.

Have a read below regarding the 6 months warranty.

"If you take the vehicle back within six months of buying it, the dealer should accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold and offer to repair or replace it. If the dealer doesn't accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold, they will have to prove this."

Full details are on the link below under buying from a dealer including the section quoted above.

According to this you have the right to return the car to the dealer for repairs to be carried out at their expense or ask for a refund taking into account you have had the car for 5 months.

The dealer has to prove the car was not defective when you bought it ( very difficult to do) it is NOT up to you to prove it was so don't get embroiled in an argument as to who is responsible, it is always the dealer.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm#you_bought_the_vehicle_from_a_dealer

Do not give up the law is on your side and there are plenty of options to look into, we recently had another member involved in a faulty transmission after a dealer repair which resulted in a "burnt out transmission" The last we heard they had under pressure replaced the transmission for free.

Finally kep a note of dates and times of contact with any 3rd party and send any written correspondence by Recorded Delivery keeping the receipts to hand.

[steve2006]

You didn't write anything just quoted me?

[dave1]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

As Steve says, this 3 months warranty is a load of rubbish. Sale of Goods Act 1979 covers you for 6 months if purchased from a dealer. If anything goes wrong in 1st 6 months the dealer is liable unless he can prove it wasn't faulty or developing the fault at the time of your purchase.....it's known as "reverse burden of proof". Check with trading standards if he doesn't play ball. The only bad point might be that you have had work done on it but still worth quoting the Act.

[steve2006]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

As Steve says, this 3 months warranty is a load of rubbish. Sale of Goods Act 1979 covers you for 6 months if purchased from a dealer. If anything goes wrong in 1st 6 months the dealer is liable unless he can prove it wasn't faulty or developing the fault at the time of your purchase.....it's known as "reverse burden of proof". Check with trading standards if he doesn't play ball. The only bad point might be that you have had work done on it but still worth quoting the Act.

I wouldn't mention the fluid change

The vehicle needed general servicing didn't it?

[pheobe]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

As Steve says, this 3 months warranty is a load of rubbish. Sale of Goods Act 1979 covers you for 6 months if purchased from a dealer. If anything goes wrong in 1st 6 months the dealer is liable unless he can prove it wasn't faulty or developing the fault at the time of your purchase.....it's known as "reverse burden of proof". Check with trading standards if he doesn't play ball. The only bad point might be that you have had work done on it but still worth quoting the Act.

I wouldn't mention the fluid change

The vehicle needed general servicing didn't it?

Thank you for info but working from the invoice date I am just outside 6 month period sods law eh!!

[pheobe]

You didn't write anything just quoted me?

Sorry hit key by mistake

[dave1]

Was it purchased from a dealer within last 6 months?

Yes purchased July this year but with only three months warranty which I extended

As Steve says, this 3 months warranty is a load of rubbish. Sale of Goods Act 1979 covers you for 6 months if purchased from a dealer. If anything goes wrong in 1st 6 months the dealer is liable unless he can prove it wasn't faulty or developing the fault at the time of your purchase.....it's known as "reverse burden of proof". Check with trading standards if he doesn't play ball. The only bad point might be that you have had work done on it but still worth quoting the Act.

I wouldn't mention the fluid change

The vehicle needed general servicing didn't it?

Thank you for info but working from the invoice date I am just outside 6 month period sods law eh!!

Unfortunate that you are past the 6 month period......you must have purchased it in May not July.

[steve2006]

If it helps for a gearbox

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-LS-430-4-3-auto-5sp-BREAKING-/320796283222?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4ab0f2d156#ht_1418wt_1189

[maniek_ls400]

Topic is old, but I have a question to pheobe - was the proper fluid used in your cooler system or water ? Maybe previous owner used normal water and corrosion damaged cooler and its pipes ?

[steve2006]

A very good point, modern coolants not only prevent freezing but also contain corrosion inhibitors this is particularly important with alloy engines and radiators.

Another point is ordinary tap water should not be used to dilute coolant only distilled or ionised.

If you have a dehumidifier in your house or office the water collected in these can be used.

[munday]

Advice from mechanics and an automatic gearbox specialist I have spoken to suggest that unless you KNOW and have documented regular trans fluid changes, it can do more harm than good. They have told me that so long as everything operates as it should, leave the trans fluid well alone.

Does anybody else on here have experience of changing/flushing the fluid on a high mileage car with no history of regular changes?

[sparkyhx]

Its looking that the ATF cooler and RAD combination are an issue with these cars - there are 3 'failures' on this first page.

If you fit a cooler - let us know where and how much?

[blackpoolmike]

Hi

I just caught up with this thread. I had an ls430 that developed the oil cooler leak. I was very lucky in that I'd checked my coolant one day and it was fine and a couple of days later happened to lift the bonnet and found the coolant looked like oil. I had no idea what the problem was until lexus said I needed a new radiator. I was lucky, the gearbox was fine. The really worrying thing is that this appears to be a rapid failure that you'll have no awareness of until something breaks or you happen to check your coolant. I guess few of us do weekly checks under the bonnet and even these may not be enough to avoid a shot gearbox. If my experience is typical this fault probably didn't exist when the subject of this thread changed hands.

Mike

[Malc]

I thought one of the great advantages of the LS was that one had the confidence not to need to lift the bonnet. The dash lights told you when anything needed attention outside of the service interval, even the wash bottle !

Malc

[pheobe]

Hi

I just caught up with this thread. I had an ls430 that developed the oil cooler leak. I was very lucky in that I'd checked my coolant one day and it was fine and a couple of days later happened to lift the bonnet and found the coolant looked like oil. I had no idea what the problem was until lexus said I needed a new radiator. I was lucky, the gearbox was fine. The really worrying thing is that this appears to be a rapid failure that you'll have no awareness of until something breaks or you happen to check your coolant. I guess few of us do weekly checks under the bonnet and even these may not be enough to avoid a shot gearbox. If my experience is typical this fault probably didn't exist when the subject of this thread changed hands.

Mike

Hi Iv'e ben out of touch for a while but just to bring you up to date having heard of at least one other 430 going the same as mine I have changed my atf cooler to air and taken it away from from the rad this vehicle has a full service history so all fluids should be correct but a very expensive repair and the cost of changing to air was only about £80 and took anly an hour.

[ipwn]

More details on that conversion and how its done please :):)

[Maduggo]

I agree, could we have some details on this modification, may be worth a look for future reference.

[The-Acre]

Just resurrecting this thread. Did anything come of info re the modification does anyone know? And does replacing the radiator address the issue? I ask as I'm not sure where the cooling pipes are located.