Gs 450H Steering And Handling Question

[irobot]

Hi everyone, I have recently bought a 2006 Lexus 450h and I really love the car. The sophistication of the interior combined with very sleek exterior is amazing. It has covered only 50k miles, is in an excellent condition and I am a first time happy Lexus owner :). The car also has Lexus FSH.

However, I am not experienced in cars, so I am trying to describe as best as I can and need your opinion.

I have a question, especially to guys who might have felt something similar, or actually had those fixed:

When I took the car for a test drive at the dealer's garage, I didn't really notice, and only after driving for a little while the car feels a bit weird with steering and handling. Not critical, but sometimes annoying.

One thing is that steering feels quite hard compared to bmw I have driven before. I mean the steering itself, not how it goes around corners. Generally the steering wheel is quite tight (not very, but I feel the difference and my friend also does) and I have a feeling that steering wheel rotates left easier compared to rotating to the right, Also sometimes it feels kind of different- half rotation is easy to turn and then it becomes tighter again. Although when I am reversing, it feels very smooth and easy.

Do you know what it might be and is there any cure to this? I have read that there were some recalls connected with PS, but not sure whether it is exactly what my car has. Any thoughts and opinions are welcome.

The other thing is that sometimes when I am driving, the car starts to handle weirdly, not much and not dangerously, but I can feel and the steering wheel is slightly thrown to the left or to the right and is shaking. Again not massively, it is even hardly noticeable from outside, but I can feel like my steering wheel goes off, e.g when I drive over something, the steering wheel shakes and slightly turns in the direction of which wheel has went over something, e.g minor pot hole, and then quickly returns back. Almost like a flick.

It feels like the steering wheel reacts on each bump on the road, when sometimes I am driving in poor condition roads. However, I haven't noticed anything while driving it fast so far (~100mph), the car, wheels. the steering wheel all felt quite stable and there wasn't such issue. Again, maybe because I was driving fast only on fairly good roads.

I also would like to say that I drive quite carefully and got 31mpg at the moment, so I don't think it can be connected with me just driving too fast over the bumps. I feel both of the above when I am actually cruising at regular 30/40 mph.

The car is also due for service and needs minor tracking alignment done Do you think regular full service could fix those problems above? What should I say at the service? Can it be just caused by me not being used to driving a rear wheel drive? Can it be just electronics kicking in and applying some kind of restrictions to the car?

Any thoughts are welcome and let me know if some parts are unclear, so I could give more information.

[TeesLS460]

Sounds like a wheel alignment problem to me.

[dandydons]

The weird handling you describe sounds to me like tramlining and usually caused by tyres at low tread - maybe not that obvious since they may still be legal but I had the same thing with front tyres at around 3mm , got them replaced and problem sorted.

[irobot]

I actually checked the tread on tyres and indeed the rear left is almost worn out and though the front left is fine, which is the side I experience problem. In any case I plan to change all 4 tyres for new ones. I did google a bit for best tyres, but as I am doing tyres up in the garage what are best options I could ask bearing in mind that I don't want to pay 1000 for 4 tyres.

I am booking a service tomorrow, so let's hope that alignment, tyres and servicing will fix this issue, as I really love the car.

Also an offtopic question: is 2006 model much different from later 2007/2008 models?

[tonyricha]

Hi John, my 450h was almost undriveable on Pirelli Zero tyres when tread levels were low, chronic tramlining but never affected steering imput, now only ever run her on Dunlop tyres. Regarding geometry most tyre companies have no listed settings for the GS450h but Lexus assure me it is the same as Gs300, seems strange given the Battery load in the boot but set by them I have perfect tyre wear although on the print out it states GS300.

Hope you get sorted

Tony

PS I think the earlier models had more toys as standard, mine wants for nothing except auto folding mirrors when locked, I hate that flip down pod every time I park.

[irobot]

Thank you for your input guys!

I have called Lexus today in regards booking a service, but in a different branch, and they quoted me minor service, while previous garage wanted to do a full major service. (The previous service according to the service book was already major service)- so the question is, do I stick with the normal service or go for full? Also, the quote for tyres I received was J174 per tyre using Dunlop SP something. Are these correct prices or I can do it somewhere cheaper? Also, do you suggest changing all 4 tyres? I am a bit reluctant to pay 700 quid for a set, but then again was offered cheaper medium Nexon alternative for 450 for a set. What are your suggestions guys?

[dandydons]

I personally would not change all the tyres unless they are below say 3.5mm. Why not check them all and if you have 2 that are useable move them to the same axle .. You say the front left one is fine so maybe another one out the others is also ok. Then I would replace the other 2 and although it is again a personal choice I would put the new ones on the front which may help your steering issues. As for service if it hasn't been done for some time then go for the full service but again I would personally probably go with the interim service since the next one at 60k is a big one. To some extent depends on what mileage you will be doing. Neither the full or interim service will address the wheel alignment issue if indeed there is any issue. Get the tyre place to check and adjust rather than getting lexus to do it. My best guess is that changing the tyres will make a major difference. Your price for dunlops doesn't seem too bad but shop around. I went with vredestein sessantas which were around £130 each and am happy with handling noise and wear . Mind and tell the tyre place to be careful with the tpms since they are expensive to replace if they break... So if you warn them they should take a bit more care.

[irobot]

Thanks for the reply!

I actually think I have 2 different sets on the car at the moment, as the front ones are of the different rubber pattern from the rear. I could not check exactly what's written on them, as it is quite dark where I live and the mobile phone did not really help :( I will see tomorrow if I can find 2 of them ok, I will do just 1 set.

Also, do tyres affect your mpg much? As I can see that Verdstein are quite poor on this. How much mpg do you have on average on these tyres?

[dandydons]

I don't think the make of tyres should affect mpg too much . More crucial will be to have them at the right pressure. My current mpg is averaging at 32.6 which is mixed motorway, commute with the occasional blast. Hope that helps .

[cruisermark]

have a look on camskill - they are very competitive on tyres

[tonyricha]

Be careful with tyre choice, mime came from Lexus on P Zeros but when worn were a real handful, I contacted the technical department at Pirelli for advice but was told in a very curt manner " these tyres are neither recommended for or tested on your car and so should not be used" That was when I decided to only use Dunlops as fitted by the manufacturer, now get 45,000 plus per set with no handling issues and 35 MPG average on every fill up.

[irobot]

Okay the latest update- I got the car serviced and checked- the technician said the car is in good mechanical order and no extra attention is required (pheww, touchwood) He also confirmed that the rear left tyre was on 1mm tread and front 2 AVONS were at around 3mm. I opted to change tyres to Dunlop SP01, which cost me 700 for the whole set. I am still digesting the price , but so far I can feel the major difference with handling- the car holds on the road better, the steering wheel is not wobbling that much anymore and the ride is quite and smooth.

However, on my way back I still noticed a very very very slight pull to the left, although I am not sure, as it could be caused by very strong wind, which actually was blowing from right to the left. I will have to check it out tomorrow again on my way to work.

Also, the other thing was- when I pulled off from traffic lights and rapidly accelerated- my traction control went just mad and I could feel the car being thrown to the left and to the right, although I still easily could keep it straight, the fact that it was loosing traction like mad makes me worry. But again, I don't know whether it is caused by wet road conditions I was doing that. I will have to test on dry surface and will report back.

In regards to the mpg- Tony, how do you manage to get 35mpg. I think it is really good. How do you drive and what do you do with your car? I noticed with mine as whenever I accelerate (not even hard) my mpg drops down quickly, while it taking much longer time to increase it back. Can you make any suggestions how to reach at least 30mpg constantly? Although I am driving through quite a few big hills during my commute to work and that can be the case of lower mpg figures

[tonyricha]

Anticipation is the key and avoid braking, be prepared and concentrate. Coast whenever possible is the hybrid way. I always use the gearbox to slow the car rather than breaking. Tried really hard once and managed to average 40MPG over 430 miles to next fillup but it was tedious! My first set of disc pads were changed at 135,000 miles and then only because the edge of friction material was cracked not worn out, I think they would still be in if not for the adaptive cruise which breaks quite hard when mugged on a motorway. I guess living in the Fenlands also helps with no hills but then I do travel all over the country.

[tonyricha]

Loss of traction may be associated with new tyres, they have a slip coat to aid removal from the mould which needs running off before they grip the road properly, also don't forget the 450h is a very powerful and heavy car, it will try to spin the rears from a stand still in the wet.

[irobot]

Thanks guys for your comments!

As promised I have double checked whether the car is still being pulled and found out that it does. Actually you cannot almost notice that the car still pulls to the left while driving slow ~up to 20mph, but at higher speeds ~30mph+ you can notice it, still not that much, maybe 1 or 2 degrees. In addition, when braking from high speeds if I release the steering wheel, the car pulls to the left quite heavily, although I can't feel it when I am braking and holding the steering wheel- maybe the only difference is that the handling becomes stiffer. And now to the most incredible part- sometimes when I turn to the left or to the right and straighten up the steering wheel- there is no pull. Then I slightly turn to any direction and back into centered position- the pull to the left occurs.

Also, occasionally I feel that the car is slightly thrown to the right, dunno whether it is because of my driving, wet road conditions or something else.

Unfortunately I did not manage to get in touch with the garage, as was to busy at work. I am going to give them a call tomorrow and book in another session with technician. Any thoughts prior to this what should I say or how to explain the issue more correctly? What should I ask them to check? Can it be front rotors or something different? I will confirm tomorrow whether they have done the wheel alignment and tracking properly.

[irobot]

Anticipation is the key and avoid braking, be prepared and concentrate. Coast whenever possible is the hybrid way. I always use the gearbox to slow the car rather than breaking. Tried really hard once and managed to average 40MPG over 430 miles to next fillup but it was tedious! My first set of disc pads were changed at 135,000 miles and then only because the edge of friction material was cracked not worn out, I think they would still be in if not for the adaptive cruise which breaks quite hard when mugged on a motorway. I guess living in the Fenlands also helps with no hills but then I do travel all over the country.

On the documentation it says that the car should do 30mpg in urban conditions, well I hardly reach 27-28 at the moment on A and B roads with 50 limit. Also, how do you accelerate? I found this part of my driving eats my mpg a lot. While I am already feeling myself driving like a granny and accelerating from full stop longer than a ford transit I used to drive, I still cannot achieve normal mpg. Do you think it can be connected with something mechanical? If so, what it could be?

[KayCee]

I would think that this is an alignment problem as you say one front tyre on one side was worn that would account for it

When i bought my car it had Falkens on (Ditch Finders) and rear Left was more worn than Rear Right

So i went to my Friends Lads TYre fitting Garage who did a 4 Wheel alignment and he found the rear Right was toeing in a lot more than the Left which will throw the car to the kerb wearing out front Left as you compensate for pull i also had TOYO Proxes fitted at 125 a corner and they are absolutely silent and wearing well

I would book the car in for 4 wheel alignment and get it done its 50 up here but most tyre specialist do it

it will transform the car

Hope that helps

Robert

[irobot]

Hi everyone, thought I'd post an update how are things going with the car.

So far I have been to Lexus dealer twice now and they have checked the wheel alignment, tracking and everything and said that the car drives perfect, even better than some of the newer models. However, the car still pulled to the left and they were explaining it with the road camber. Well, today I went to a local garage just round the corner of my house to get it checked again, and the technician in the garage said the the rear left and front right wheels need aligning. As far as I could tell it was nearly on the border of the green zone (shown on the display in their tracking software). I asked them to realign them again- so far it is certainly better, but I still can't understand whether the car pulls or it's the camber, as sometimes I keep the steering wheel straight and the car does not pull and sometimes it does.

Also, what I noticed that sometimes when I release the steering wheel, it slightly drops to the left, about 1-2 degrees. Is this normal?

Couple of other things- when I am driving in total silence (today at 3am I was going back from friends house), whenever I accelerated (does not matter hard or light) and everytime the engine kicked in I noticed a very low buzzing sound coming out from the drivers side, somewhere underneath the steering wheel closer to the gas pedal. Is this normal? I have not noticed it before, but I was usually driving it with music on, so maybe did not pay attention enough. I understand that the car can't be silent completely, but I just would like to be sure that this is a normal thing, as it seems like the sound is coming not under the bonnet, but actually from the inside of the cabin.

Also, when standing still- pressing the brake couple of times, causes some sort of the mechanical response and the brake starts vibrating and producing buzzing sound for couple of seconds, is this normal too?

Lastly, again, when standing still, I can hear slight clicks when I press the brake and then slight clicks when I release the brake. is this normal?

I think I am a bit of a perfectionist, but never drove that car before and hence still in the process of discovering it. On top of it I am quite bad with cars and hence any noises, clicks and etc. brings paranoya on, that something is wrong with the car.

As always, any input would be much appreciated. Also, if you could post any kinds of strange/weird things, which you noticed with your cars and which are normal, I would really appreciate it.

On a bright note- the car drives well (touchwood) and I am really enjoying the ride. Although steering is a bit on a stiffer side compared to other cars I have driven before.

[KayCee]

Hi John

Thats very true but some of those machines have green zones and red zone the point to make is exactly what you have found out

1 side could be in green at lower end and other at top end of green the operator may just say " all in green its ok " but may not be true the m/c may only be as good as the operator

Just go back and say its a lot better but still pulling to the left and they will compensate for that if he is a good operator trust me they will want you happy

you will get there

I cant comment on the other points

but due to the silence of these cars you can sometimes hear the various sensors and relays clicking

Robert

[Zotto]

The "purring" you hear sometimes (even with engine totally off) is a noise coming from brakes pump, and it's normal, like is normal when you start moving with only electric the slight whistle resembling a metropolitan train :)

About steering feeling, you will notice a great difference setting normal vs. sport mode, as the GS has a variable gear steering that in sport mode make it more direct (while suspensions get stiffer): I love sport mode steering, while not particularly like stiffening.

Anyway, GS 450h is great , you can choose if driving a comfy sedan or a sporty GT (with sport and power switches ON).

The differences between MY 2006 and MY2008 are minor, the most noticeable is side mirrors with lights.

[irobot]

Thank you guys for your replies. The trouble I have is that having not driven a brand new car, I don't know how the used one should sound, so hence am constantly in doubt whether it is normal or not :)

[KayCee]

John

I also agree with you on the steering i double checked mine and mine too is a bit heavy feeling and also does sometimes pull to left on camber roads but i am completely happy with it on the motorway its as straight as a die.

If you read the old report /review of the GS that is one of the points it brings up not being able to throw it round corners like the BMW.

I am sure that once you get yr new tyres run in it will be perfect.

I drove my Sons OMEGA and his steering was a lot lighter than mine but a bit more wooly at least the LExus as a solid feel to it and i am quite happy with my steering

The point to make is make sure yu use a tyre specialist for alignment as Lexus dealers dont have those 4 wheel alignment machines

Enjoy the car they are fabulous

Robert

[irobot]

Robert, thank you for your comments!

Actually, I have changed tyres already and done wheel alignment so the car feels good now so far. I still sometimes feel that it gets thrown on bad roads or roads with furrow, but that's not a big deal.

One thing I noticed is that when I am going down not very steep hills without accelerating and simply coasting, my car slightly loses speed, which is annoying. Is this a normal thing for these cars? I have a feeling maybe my discs are touching the pads and that's why it slightly slows down as well as mpg is not that great- I get between 26-27mpg in quite hilly location where I live.

As it is my first serious car I am bit worried that I chose the wrong car and maybe a newer more efficient mpg e.g. Mazda 6 would be a better choice. To be honest, this bit makes me frustrated, everytime I look at the car I appreciate it both interior and exterior, but then I notice little bits, pieces and scratches, which are hardly noticeable for the age of the car, but I see them, my mood goes down. I dunno, psychologically I feel tensed all the time, like being prepared that something can go wrong with a car being 8 years old. I really like the car, but I might have over estimated it mpg efficiency when took it, which makes me gripe as I am going to the petrol station every 2-3 days.

[Exdee]

New front tyres will probably eliminate the steering pull and you will find that it gets worse as tyres wear down. However some steering pull is normal if you have a staggered wheel setup on certain road surfaces.

You can jack the car up and rotate the front wheels by hand to see if there is any friction too. If both sides rotate freely then you don't have an issue.

Don't buy tyres from the dealer again. You can get more variety and a better price else where. The dealer will only sell you what they have in stock.

[irobot]

Thanks for you input guys again! Another thing- I still get problems with wheels- I keep loosing pressure on the left side and now on both front and rear wheel. The problem is that I have not driven the car anywhere dodgy, or thrown it, really cruised and coasted it. This makes me so annoyed, any ideas why I keep loosing pressure?