Corrado

2008 IS-F replaced with 2014 C63 AMG - comparison

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Here are my first impressions after three days and 560 miles in the C63 AMG. Bear in mind I am comparing a 2008 IS-F with a car six years younger so I have tried to be as objective as possible.

Ride - I may be wrong but I don't think it is solely due to having 18" wheels as opposed to 19" on the IS-F but the ride feels better damped. In the IS-F the suspension used to rebound a couple of times which I had gotten used to but bumps and imperfections in the road are less intrusive in the C63. Don't get me wrong, it's still a firm ride though. As my IS-F was a 2008 model it's an unfair comparison as the ride is supposed to be improved on the later IS-Fs. 

Handling - when the C63 was facelifted in 2012 the suspension was improved significantly so although I've not pushed it too hard yet it feels slightly more planted than the IS-F. Again an unfair comparison as the suspension was improved in the later IS-Fs. I've not experienced any wheelspin in the C63 yet so it's not as tail happy in the wet as the motoring press like to make out. 

Economy - IS-F wins easily. I saw an indicated 25mpg (calculated was slightly less) in the C63 on a steady motorway drive I normally get 28-29 mpg from in the IS-F. The extra gear in the IS-F helps with this obviously but there is more engine braking when lifting off in top gear (7th) in the C63 than when lifting off in 8th in the F. I suppose this is due to 8th being a much taller gear.

Equipment/Technology - The AMG is a 2014 model so ignoring where tech has moved on I'd say Lexus wins here. In absolute terms I have lost keyless entry/start and radar guided cruise control (radar guided bit is an extra, I just have standard cruise). I have gained Bluetooth music streaming, USB integration and hard drive based sat nav (all three standard in the later IS-F anyway).  

Transmission - I always thought the F's transmission was underrated anyway and the C63's was similarly rated by the motoring press. There are three gearbox auto modes (comfort, sport and sport plus) as well as fully manual and a 'race start' launch control. Auto downshifts are not as smooth as the F but the facelifted C63 allegedly has a much improved transmission where it went from a torque converter auto like in the F to a Speedshift MCT - which is not a multi clutch like DSG or PDK (despite being called MCT) but uses a wet clutch instead of a torque converter. I'll need to drive it more to come up with a verdict for this bit. 

Engine/noise/performance - Both cars' engines are masterpieces in their own right. The secondary intake induction noise at engine speeds over 3700rpm in the F sounds better than the induction noise in the C63. The C63 seems to have more low down and mid range torque - down to the extra 1.2 litres of engine capacity I would guess. The C63 seems quicker revving or more free revving as well. 

Also, the 6.2 engine is artificially restricted to 457bhp to stop the C63 being faster than more expensive AMG models with the same engine. A remap removes the artificial restriction (throttle is limited to 65-75% opening depending on where you read) adding around 50bhp but I'll hold off for now. It does feel a little quicker than the F by my seat of the pants reckoning. 

Exhaust - I'm sure everyone knows already but the OEM exhaust on the C63 is loud! Interestingly, it's not louder than the F (inside the car at least) when pottering about but it really sounds great with cracks, pops and bangs when flooring it or auto blipping on downshifts although inside the car is much quieter than I expected - the noise is mostly on the outside. I'll add a quick clip.

Practicality - my reason for changing cars - mine's an estate so decent load space, folding rear seats and seating for three in the back. I also think a debadged estate is more discreet. I deliberately avoided black and white C63s and went for boring silver. (Sorry don't mean to restart the colour debate again!) I will just add the front seats in the C63 are awesome though!

That's the end of this brain dump for now, if I think of anything more I'll add to this thread. 

 

C63 AMG.jpg

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Quick exhaust clip - decent speakers or headphones recommended as it sounds rubbish on my Iphone's speakers.

https://youtu.be/Q1TGRwLt0E8

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q1TGRwLt0E8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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An interesting comparison, appreciate you taking the time, good read 👍 

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1 minute ago, emjay82 said:

An interesting comparison, appreciate you taking the time, good read 👍 

No problem :) I didn't mention running costs but I'm pretty sure Lexus wins that one!

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1 hour ago, Corrado said:

Here are my first impressions after three days and 560 miles in the C63 AMG. Bear in mind I am comparing a 2008 IS-F with a car six years younger so I have tried to be as objective as possible.

Ride - I may be wrong but I don't think it is solely due to having 18" wheels as opposed to 19" on the IS-F but the ride feels better damped. In the IS-F the suspension used to rebound a couple of times which I had gotten used to but bumps and imperfections in the road are less intrusive in the C63. Don't get me wrong, it's still a firm ride though. As my IS-F was a 2008 model it's an unfair comparison as the ride is supposed to be improved on the later IS-Fs. 

Handling - when the C63 was facelifted in 2012 the suspension was improved significantly so although I've not pushed it too hard yet it feels slightly more planted than the IS-F. Again an unfair comparison as the suspension was improved in the later IS-Fs. I've not experienced any wheelspin in the C63 yet so it's not as tail happy in the wet as the motoring press like to make out. 

Economy - IS-F wins easily. I saw an indicated 25mpg (calculated was slightly less) in the C63 on a steady motorway drive I normally get 28-29 mpg from in the IS-F. The extra gear in the IS-F helps with this obviously but there is more engine braking when lifting off in top gear (7th) in the C63 than when lifting off in 8th in the F. I suppose this is due to 8th being a much taller gear.

Equipment/Technology - The AMG is a 2014 model so ignoring where tech has moved on I'd say Lexus wins here. In absolute terms I have lost keyless entry/start and radar guided cruise control (radar guided bit is an extra, I just have standard cruise). I have gained bluetooth music streaming, USB integration and hard drive based sat nav (all three standard in the later IS-F anyway).  

Transmission - I always thought the F's transmission was underrated anyway and the C63's was similarly rated by the motoring press. There are three gearbox auto modes (comfort, sport and sport plus) as well as fully manual and a 'race start' launch control. Auto downshifts are not as smooth as the F but the facelifted C63 allegedly has a much improved transmission where it went from a torque converter auto like in the F to a Speedshift MCT - which is not a multi clutch like DSG or PDK (despite being called MCT) but uses a wet clutch instead of a torque converter. I'll need to drive it more to come up with a verdict for this bit. 

Engine/noise/performance - Both cars' engines are masterpieces in their own right. The secondary intake induction noise at engine speeds over 3700rpm in the F sounds better than the induction noise in the C63. The C63 seems to have more low down and mid range torque - down to the extra 1.2 litres of engine capacity I would guess. The C63 seems quicker revving or more free revving as well. 

Also, the 6.2 engine is artificially restricted to 457bhp to stop the C63 being faster than more expensive AMG models with the same engine. A remap removes the artificial restriction (throttle is limited to 65-75% opening depending on where you read) adding around 50bhp but I'll hold off for now. It does feel a little quicker than the F by my seat of the pants reckoning. 

Exhaust - I'm sure everyone knows already but the OEM exhaust on the C63 is loud! Interestingly, it's not louder than the F (inside the car at least) when pottering about but it really sounds great with cracks, pops and bangs when flooring it or auto blipping on downshifts although inside the car is much quieter than I expected - the noise is mostly on the outside. I'll add a quick clip.

Practicality - my reason for changing cars - mine's an estate so decent load space, folding rear seats and seating for three in the back. I also think a debadged estate is more discreet. I deliberately avoided black and white C63s and went for boring silver. (Sorry don't mean to restart the colour debate again!) I will just add the front seats in the C63 are awesome though!

That's the end of this brain dump for now, if I think of anything more I'll add to this thread. 

 

C63 AMG.jpg

@Corrado On a family needs must basis it's a practical alternative except you will need one of these sooner or later 😉

IMG_2919.JPG.de24b92f8be0e1f52a52853a660fc16d.JPG

I get to use a mates C63 Coupe regularly and agree with most of your observations, reliable it isn't build quality it hasn't got, some of these can be forgiven for the stupendous engine and he's got an even louder exhaust 😳

Oh the colour is lovely on yours de badging I agree with as well 👍

🐀

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@Big Rat haha that's true! 

For what it's worth I have a two year Mercedes warranty on it but you only find out how good a warranty is when you need it.

What issues has your mate had with his and what year is his? My research LED me to believe there are no major issues with the facelift model engine. Head bolts were the main issue on older ones. 

I can feel some difference in actual build quality as opposed to perceived build quality that the Germans are so good at. 

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Seat bolsters are a common weakness on current Mercs. They split and wear terribly and even the nappa leather covers aren't all they should be. 

Mercedes has lost it's way IMHO, sacrificing build quality and reliability on the alter of sales at any cost. MB's are as common as Ford and Vauxhall nowadays 

The C63 is an awesome car but not 'special' the AMG label has been so diluted  

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Yes, I'm aware of issues with the leather seats. Mine are ok now but will see how long they hold up for.

I agree regarding the ubiquity of MBs, BMWs and Audis at the moment. 

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Enjoyed reading your comparison. Keep us updated👍🏻

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Looks great in estate form, much prefer this to the saloon.

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@Corrado a debadged c63 estate is a very cool choice, congratulations! 

While there are a number of issues with them in reality these probably only affect the minority of cars so fingers crossed yours will be fine. A remap will soon take your mind off any issues anyway 😉

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"Cracks pops and bangs."

Fun without going fast. Perfect.

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3 hours ago, Corrado said:

@Big Rat haha that's true! 

For what it's worth I have a two year Mercedes warranty on it but you only find out how good a warranty is when you need it.

What issues has your mate had with his and what year is his? My research led me to believe there are no major issues with the facelift model engine. Head bolts were the main issue on older ones. 

I can feel some difference in actual build quality as opposed to perceived build quality that the Germans are so good at. 

@Corrado Nothing major matey his is same age as yours 19" wheels (you have 18?) cracked he's on his 3rd set !

Sunroof rattles never been resolved, gearbox issues a number of software updates resolved it, interior trim problems now resolved.

The warranty has been very hit and miss in its response but that's as much to do with the dealership as well.

The car is back with them now as the 3rd set of wheels cracked and they refused to replace and had them welded. The car was left after valeting to be picked up in area of the workshop where they were using angle grinders the subsequent fragments pitted all the glass and body work, a decision is shortly to be made the likely outcome is the dealership will buy back the car.

Suffice to say Barry's opinion of Mercedes dealers is not printable.

When the car was good it was brilliant when problems arose the response by Mercedes was disastrous.

Your experience will I'm sure be different.

Big Rat

 

 

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3 hours ago, DAW said:

Enjoyed reading your comparison. Keep us updated👍🏻

Thanks, will do 😀

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3 hours ago, Bluethunder said:

Looks great in estate form, much prefer this to the saloon.

Thanks, I agree, I didn't even consider the saloon version. 

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3 hours ago, Rusty Crobar said:

@Corrado a debadged c63 estate is a very cool choice, congratulations! 

While there are a number of issues with them in reality these probably only affect the minority of cars so fingers crossed yours will be fine. A remap will soon take your mind off any issues anyway 😉

Thank you, I certainly hope so 😀 . I'm not expecting (but hoping for getting close to) Lexus reliability levels but time will tell. 

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3 hours ago, Flytvr said:

"Cracks pops and bangs."

Fun without going fast. Perfect.

Indeed, coming from a Lexus it's crazy how fruity the standard exhaust is! It is nice not having to ring its neck to get those noises though but if you drive gently it's not noticeably louder than the IS-F 👍

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2 hours ago, Big Rat said:

@Corrado Nothing major matey his is same age as yours 19" wheels (you have 18?) cracked he's on his 3rd set !

Sunroof rattles never been resolved, gearbox issues a number of software updates resolved it, interior trim problems now resolved.

The warranty has been very hit and miss in its response but that's as much to do with the dealership as well.

The car is back with them now as the 3rd set of wheels cracked and they refused to replace and had them welded. The car was left after valeting to be picked up in area of the workshop where they were using angle grinders the subsequent fragments pitted all the glass and body work, a decision is shortly to be made the likely outcome is the dealership will buy back the car.

Suffice to say Barry's opinion of Mercedes dealers is not printable.

When the car was good it was brilliant when problems arose the response by Mercedes was disastrous.

Your experience will I'm sure be different.

Big Rat

 

 

Wow, I hope he gets a satisfactory outcome. I do have 18s on mine. I did hear there are a lot of issues with the 19s. 

Out of interest @Big Rat what did you think of the C63 gearbox (before or after the software update) after driving your friend's?

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10 hours ago, Big Rat said:

@Corrado Nothing major matey his is same age as yours 19" wheels (you have 18?) cracked he's on his 3rd set !

Sunroof rattles never been resolved, gearbox issues a number of software updates resolved it, interior trim problems now resolved.

The warranty has been very hit and miss in its response but that's as much to do with the dealership as well.

The car is back with them now as the 3rd set of wheels cracked and they refused to replace and had them welded. The car was left after valeting to be picked up in area of the workshop where they were using angle grinders the subsequent fragments pitted all the glass and body work, a decision is shortly to be made the likely outcome is the dealership will buy back the car.

Suffice to say Barry's opinion of Mercedes dealers is not printable.

When the car was good it was brilliant when problems arose the response by Mercedes was disastrous.

Your experience will I'm sure be different.

Big Rat

 

 

Thing is, Mercedes dealer, Lexus dealer, Audi dealer - they are only as good as the individual garage in question - nothing to do with Mercedes, Lexus or Audi.

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7 hours ago, Corrado said:

Wow, I hope he gets a satisfactory outcome. I do have 18s on mine. I did hear there are a lot of issues with the 19s. 

Out of interest @Big Rat what did you think of the C63 gearbox (before or after the software update) after driving your friend's?

@Corrado Same as your observations Matey, once updated it was fine, almost as good as the isF.

None of the issues he had ever returned, the later one is definitely a good box.

As you have the estate I would of done the same coupe and saloon just a touch gangsta for me 😏

🐀

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7 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

Thing is, Mercedes dealer, Lexus dealer, Audi dealer - they are only as good as the individual garage in question - nothing to do with Mercedes, Lexus or Audi.

@Flytvr They still produce the product the development the parts etc that go wrong in the first place due to crap quality poor tolerances and lack of engineering pride in the first place, must not dismiss this aspect.

😊

🐀

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Love these in estate form. 

Great choice

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Does it pop and 'bang' on the overrun?

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@Flytvr It certainly does, it doesn't sound as contrived as on the A45 AMG and it's relatively unintrusive inside the car until you floor it so it's perfect for me. 

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I know asking price does not equal selling price but last week I noticed that my old IS-F is up for sale at almost exactly the same price I paid for it three years ago! (Due to an increase in asking price by £1,250 since going on sale last week.) :wacko:

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