Religion

[Fargo]

Well as the question asks does religion cause more problems than it solves,

i say yes, take a look at 98% of the current major events.. what is behind them.. Religion..

[Zee007]

I voted no - I believe it's peoples lack of understanding or mis-inturprutation of religions that is the root cause...

[Matthew_McNally]

I voted yes.

more people have been killed in the name of $deity than anything else.

[Fidgits]

I dont believe religon causes serial killers

Take the Israel conflict, that is about land, not religon.

So how can it possibly be the root of ALL evil???

That said, it can be blamed for some conflicts, but somehow i think it is more people 'bending' a religon as an excuse for their actions.

(no offense meant to anyone btw)

[Fargo]

Valid point Zee, i feel that it is the underlying religion that is the cause of the 'bending' of the rules.. if that makes sense

[danny]

The problem is not religion - all the main-stream religions teach compassion, understanding and tollerance - it's the zelots mis-interpration of the religion. I've no objection to religion, but I can't stand most churches.

[Brettster]

If they didnt have religion to fight about it would be something else. Myself I dont beleive in religion. I like proof and science gives me that, evolution etc. but the question is. If something did create the earth etc where did the creator come from? and what created the thing that created the creator etc.

maybe its all a matrix

[tdiplc]

I think that the concept of religion is a good thing, but the execution (no pun intended ;) ) is what causes the problem.

As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures, but the practical deliverence of the messages are either misinterpreted or distorted to suit suit various agendas.

On balance I think that the world would be a much better off without religion, if the void (for those that need it) was filled with a mutual respect for other humans and this rock in the universe we call Earth.

[Rodders_UK]

I voted yes.

each to their own - I have my beliefs and think that people should be entitled to theirs. It's when religion tries to force one person's beliefs on another that it all goes tits up.

The catholic church in particular has been trying to control minds for centuries. Sell off some of that gold and feed some people!!!

[Fargo]

I think that the concept of religion is a good thing, but the execution (no pun intended ;) ) is what causes the problem.

As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures, but the practical deliverence of the messages are either misinterpreted or distorted to suit suit various agendas.

On balance I think that the world would be a much better off without religion, if the void (for those that need it) was filled with a mutual respect for other humans and this rock in the universe we call Earth.

i agree with you Mark,

However in reply to your comment "As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures" i do believe that in some religions, muslim i believe but someone correct me, those that do not believe in *** are labelled Infidels and so that to me is not an acceptance of 'all and sundrie' i guess the same applied back in the day with Heratics being the order if you were not christian..

Rodders, your comments too true blue.

[ifraz]

I think that the concept of religion is a good thing, but the execution (no pun intended  ;) ) is what causes the problem.

As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures, but the practical deliverence of the messages are either misinterpreted or distorted to suit suit various agendas.

On balance I think that the world would be a much better off without religion, if the void (for those that need it) was filled with a mutual respect for other humans and this rock in the universe we call Earth.

i agree with you Mark,

However in reply to your comment "As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures" i do believe that in some religions, muslim i believe but someone correct me, those that do not believe in *** are labelled Infidels and so that to me is not an acceptance of 'all and sundrie' i guess the same applied back in the day with Heratics being the order if you were not christian..

Rodders, your comments too true blue.

Where did you gets your facts from Fargo?

If you bothered to go and read up on the religion I think you'll find that Islam teaches you peace, respect and tolerance towards the whole human race.

Labelling 'Muslims', as you have said in your post, as disrespecting other religions (that's my understanding of infidel) is totally false.

[michaelH]

Does religion cause more trouble than it solves? Yes, of course it does. Quite apart from that, I simply cannot understand why so many well educated people waste their time following and obeying ancient and primitive religions. Christianity, in particular, is demonstrably primitive nonsense, and anyone who wants to investigate its origins and development can see how a crazy story grows in the telling over a few hundred years. The pauline epistles, for example, don't even mention most of the leading doctrines that now make up Xianity, and they are the earliest Xtian records we have. Mark's gospel (if you omit later additions to the end of the original text) does not even mention the supposed resurrection - it end with the empty tomb, and a missing body is hardly a resurrection. All the rest (virgin birth, the risen lord etc etc) is made up of later additions in later gospels, often added scores of years later. Xtianity is just a mongrel and half-baked mixture of messianic Judaism blended (by Paul and his followers) with the mystery religions of the first century roman empire. That is where the virgin birth nonsense comes from, because all self respecting man-gods of the era (and there were lots of them) had virgin births and then rose from the dead after being sacrificed for our benefit.

The Jewish godfigure from the old testament is one of the nastiest entities ever dreamed up. Stalin and Pol Pot were pussycats in comparison. Try reading some old testament text.

As for Islam, it scares me witless, so I won't dare to criticise it. (Look what happened to Salman Rushdie). But of course that explains why it is still a strong religion when Xtianity is fading. Xianity was a strong religion when they still burned heretics alive.

[Zee007]

each to their own - I have my beliefs and think that people should be entitled to theirs. It's when religion tries to force one person's beliefs on another that it all goes tits up.

Spot on - each to their own....... and leave it at that.

[Fargo]

I think that the concept of religion is a good thing, but the execution (no pun intended  ;) ) is what causes the problem.

As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures, but the practical deliverence of the messages are either misinterpreted or distorted to suit suit various agendas.

On balance I think that the world would be a much better off without religion, if the void (for those that need it) was filled with a mutual respect for other humans and this rock in the universe we call Earth.

i agree with you Mark,

However in reply to your comment "As far as I know, most religions advocate peace, love and compassion towards all races and cultures" i do believe that in some religions, muslim i believe but someone correct me, those that do not believe in *** are labelled Infidels and so that to me is not an acceptance of 'all and sundrie' i guess the same applied back in the day with Heratics being the order if you were not christian..

Rodders, your comments too true blue.

Where did you gets your facts from Fargo?

If you bothered to go and read up on the religion I think you'll find that Islam teaches you peace, respect and tolerance towards the whole human race.

Labelling 'Muslims', as you have said in your post, as disrepecting other religions (that's my understanding of infidel) is totally false.

which is why i said someone correct me if im wrong Ifraz.. ;)

but to give a reason why i associated Infidel (generally) the muslim faith, apart from hearing the term over the years and assoctating it with the muslim faith, one has only to do a quick google search and see why someone can come up with such a statement as i have made.

"Infidel is used by English writers to translate the equivalent word used Mohammedans in speaking of Christians and other disbelievers in Mohammedanism. "

" While the damnation of all infidels will be hopeless and eternal, the Moslems, who, though holding the true religion, have been guilty of heinous sins, will be delivered from hell after expiating their crimes. "

Here

here

However, i have also come across this, which suggests that the term was used originaly by christians."Infidel" was a name given by Christians to Muslims during the Crusades. If you read a knight's creed or code of laws to live by during the 1200's, one of them is (and I quote) "Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation and without mercy."

AND i never said the muslim faith disrespected other religions, i said that as far as i 'know' the muslim faith labelled those that did NOT believe in there g.o.d. as infidels,,

So please feel free to correct me, as i think you have... i have an open mind..

[DaveEllen]

Religion & arguments about which one is best/dominant in all its forms has killed more people than anything else ever has period.

IMHO its a crutch to enable people to blame someone else for their misfortunes or look to for salvation...............

As for the Catholic church........don't get me going............

[Zee007]

Well done for doing some research Paul - nice one mate. :)

I can see where you are deriving this from, and as you pointed out - infidel is not just associated with the Muslim faith....

I found this bit of text on the first web page you linked to which was my understanding of the word:

An infidel, in common usage, is one who denies Christianity and the truth of the Scriptures. Some have endeavored to widen the sense of infidel so as to embrace atheism and every form of unbelief; but this use does not generally prevail. A freethinker is now only another name for an infidel. An unbeliever is not necessarily a disbeliever or infidel, because he may still be inquiring after evidence to satisfy his mind; the word, however, is more commonly used in the extreme sense

There was something interesting on the the forth page you posted too (on a Muslim site) which actually put the phrase you lifted into context, but to be honest, its not my place to be talking about religon on a public forum.

It is each to their own - I do not judge people on their beliefs nor do I expect that of me. So I won;t say any more, but will be happy to discuss issues off-line with people.

Thanks for having an open mind bud. :)

[Fargo]

lol so in the terms of an athiest and un-believer, i am an infidel. cool i can live with that..

But yes lets not get to deep into the religion thing.

i think also mr ellen said it well with "Religion & arguments about which one is best/dominant in all its forms has killed more people than anything else ever has period."

[ifraz]

Wow Paul you have been doing your research. ;)

We could discuss this topic for hours. From your links and other materials I have read there are many arguments and view points that can be mis-represented or mis-interpreatated. You can sometimes find (as I do) that the more varied literature you read the more confused you can get. It's all an education....B)

As it has been said already, I'm also not in a position to discuss religion in great depth, especially not in a public forum.

Love and peace to all :D

[Monster-Mat]

all the war zones/conflicts ive been to have all been routed in Religion

N-Ireland

Bosnia

Iraq

Kosovo

[Fargo]

agreed Ifraz

Agreed Matt

[javadude]

I can't speak of all religions but I can tell you about C.hristianity.

In Reading 62% of people claimed to be C.hristian in the Census so with a population of 143,000 there should be 88,000 people in churches across the town on Sunday. There aren't. There are plenty of people who claim to be C.hristian cause they think that being C.hristened as a baby, going to church occasionally, being "good", or being born in England make you one. They don't. If J.esus is judged by them then that is not a fair judgement.

Of those who do go to church not all are yet C.hristian. Some are open minded, exploring what they believe and are there for a taster. Some have missed the point and think that C.hristianity is about following rules, going to church and doing "religious stuff". It isn't. Judging J.esus by those who have yet to decide or haven't yet understood what it's all about is not a fair judgement either. If you read the bible you'll see that J.esus hates empty religious acts, hypocrisy etc.

To become a C.hristian you have to choose to believe in J.esus and accept him as being in charge of your life. Then you worship him in a church with a style you feel comfortable with. Once the commitment is made you demonstrate that faith in love and compassion for others. J.esus said "Love your neighbour as yourself." and by neighbour he meant everyone, especially those in need.

Sure there are plenty who do wrong in the name of religion but don't miss out on your chance for a better life because of them. J.esus has transformed my life.

There are also plenty of other reasons for suffering and death in the world: people's selfishness; wars for power, land, politics; drug, alcohol and gambling addiction; abortion etc. It's a long list and the only answer I've seen is a G.od who is real in everyday life enough to change people.

I know some people don't like to talk about their beliefs or lack of them. There is a good reason for talking about what you believe though - when you've found something good you want others to know too. Like driving a Lexus. I understand that some people don't like to feel challenged to make a choice but wether you do explicitly or not everyone has.

OK sermon over. It's about time I preached another based on the Matrix.

[Fargo]

well said Chris..another point of view,,

agreed there are plenty of other reasons for suffering, but can i ask what your thoughts are on the suffering religion does cause, obviously there is a lot of good that can and does happen with various religions..

[Bobski]

I think Religion is used more of an excuse within wars.

I have many friends from many differing backgrounds and religions, and we all get on fine.

We do however make it a rule not to talk about religion as it used to frequently cause arguments.

And BTW...i put down Jedi on the Census :)

[Rodders_UK]

I was watching a documentary the other night about SETI

In the 18th century it was considered heresy to even think about the fact that we might not be alone in the universe. A pioneer of the SETI philosophy was an Italian chap who was burned at the stake by the church for suggesting that life might exists in other places.

How can that be a good thing?

[javadude]

Burning people at the stake doesn't seem very C.hristian to me! :o Can't see how "love your neighbour" translates to "burn em". It seems to be more about fear of loosing power and control over people by corrupt church leaders.

It's certainly not in the bible, along with infant baptism, praying to saints, relics, purgatory etc. Sadly the catholic church added quite a bit to it's practises which are not biblical. I guess these are what michaelH is refering to when he says that Pauls letters don't contain the leading doctrines of the C.hristian faith.

Not for Michael, as he has obviously made his mind up, but for the sake of anyone else here, here are some corrections to his post:

The core of the C.hristian faith is the death and resurrection of J.esus as the Son of G.od and salvation through faith in him and not through good works. All this is in the bible and is explained at great length in Paul's letters. I'm not sure what Michael thinks is missing.

All the gospels mention the resurrection of J.esus. In Mark an angel tells Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome that Jesus "has risen". This is before the portion that some manuscripts are missing.

All the gospels were written in the lifetime of people who had witnessed the events and would have been able to dispute any inaccuracies (mid first century for synoptic gospels, late first century for John's gospel).

We have fragments of the gospels from the late first century and 5000 partial and complete copies in total from before 350 AD. This is more than any other ancient work.

The "mix" with Judaism is that J.esus is the messiah ("C.hrist", ie annointed one) that the Jews were waiting for. Originally the Jewish C.hristians maintained their jewish culture and were just called "Followers of the way" as J.esus had referred to himself as "the way, the truth and the life". The pre-J.esus bit of the bible, the "old testament" is from the jewish writings and includes hundreds of prophecies from G.od about the coming of J.esus.