True cost LC 500

[Winston]

I have been wondering for a while what the true cost of the LC 500 is

when you look at the numbers being sold and the amount of time and effort that went in to the development of the vehicle

With the bespoke gearbox and the amount of detail of design. They must be losing a lot of money on each vehicle.

I know that it is a Halo car for them as a show piece but it would be nice to know what the true price should be.

if anyone knows ?

[Malc]

ask   Alexa    

Malc

[Alan305]

Lots of reasons for Lexus to keep that secret. Some “smart” motoring journalists will claim to know to enhance their reputation but it’s unlikely to be correct.

That it exists gives them benefit on so many levels. When I took my old GS into Milton Keynes the service team could not wait to show me their LFA in for servicing, and only a million bucks more expensive then mine.

[Spock66]

Given the complexity of financial accounting in a Global Corporation I doubt if even Toyota know themselves, and whether or not that is a meaningful answer anyway.

Clearly they should know the actual manufacturing cost per unit, raw materials, components, labour costs for assembly etc, but there will be a whole load of overhead costs that the accountants will also look to recover across their revenue earning products. For example maintenance and depreciation of the manufacturing facility, tooling, cost of maintaining a research and development team etc.

There is also what assumptions were made in the Business Case, for example Toyota may have assumed that in making the LC the halo effect will mean they sell 0.5% more Toyota Corollas globally and that will pay for the project in it's entirety.

[Malc]

1 hour ago, Spock66 said:

There is also what assumptions were made in the Business Case, for example

robusta coffee beans or not, ... in the freebie Main Dealer and others " freebie " coffees globally

....... far too complex a Q to answer I'm afraid, not even the accountants will know, well, especially them coz they really often don't have a clue as to the true meaning of many of the figures thay conjure up  .....  ask any accountant, he will tell you the truth in that !

Malc

[RiverFred]

Whatever the true cost is the sales price is a bargain compared to other sports cars of similar quality and HP. 

The only exception would be the corvette at $85,000, however the quality sucks.

[Winston]

2 hours ago, Malc said:

robusta coffee beans or not, ... in the freebie Main Dealer and others " freebie " coffees globally

....... far too complex a Q to answer I'm afraid, not even the accountants will know, well, especially them coz they really often don't have a clue as to the true meaning of many of the figures thay conjure up  .....  ask any accountant, he will tell you the truth in that !

Malc

I realise there are many accountancy tricks 

But when you read about the time that was spent by master craftsmen and top designers on door handles, steering wheels, exhaust note, specially designed headlights (apparently the smallest ever) etc etc etc

and the low number of sales to me the price per unit must be astronomical.

[NemesisUK]

3 minutes ago, Winston said:

I realise there are many accountancy tricks 

But when you read about the time that was spent by master craftsmen and top designers on door handles, steering wheels, exhaust note, specially designed headlights (apparently the smallest ever) etc etc etc

and the low number of sales to me the price per unit must be astronomical.

All those development and design costs are shared across the whole range of models. Might not be immediately implemented but the knowledge gained will be used in many, many different products.

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, Winston said:

With the bespoke gearbox

The gearbox is used in multiple vehicles, including certain Toyota Land Cruiser models, and others use a variant in the same family so the development costs aren't really associated with the LC. Plus Aisin, who make the transmission, would use some of the R&D from this transmission and use in designs they sell to other manufacturers such as Porsche.

[dutchie01]

The question should be "what the true profit of the LC500 is". 

As a stand alone model it could well be game over now but it just isnt.

I remember an interview with Dr Piech then head honcho of VW and driving the Phaeton at astronomical development costs. For instance a team of engineers took a year and a half to develop an airconditioning system without draft which was an order by The Boss.

Piech answered exactly thesame question by replying " if i can charge 100 euro more for every Golf i sell it is well worth it ". 

 

[Alex S. Driver]

6 hours ago, Spock66 said:

There is also what assumptions were made in the Business Case, for example Toyota may have assumed that in making the LC the halo effect will mean they sell 0.5% more Toyota Corollas globally and that will pay for the project in it's entirety.

Does this mean that Toyota owners all over the world have subsidised my LC500? Thanks guys, very decent of you! 👍

[Alex S. Driver]

6 hours ago, Alan305 said:

...When I took my old GS into Milton Keynes the service team could not wait to show me their LFA in for servicing, and only a million bucks more expensive then mine.

I too got treated to an LFA walk-around by the nice folks at MK. It was on the ramp next to my car in the workshop. First time my LC has ever been truly upstaged. They tell me there's only one technician in the UK trained on LFA and he's based at MK. Must be a ninja.

[Spock66]

58 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I remember an interview with Dr Piech then head honcho of VW and driving the Phaeton at astronomical development costs.

Much of this development ended up in the Bentley Continental which has sold very well for a >£100k car.

[Winston]

2 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

All those development and design costs are shared across the whole range of models. Might not be immediately implemented but the knowledge gained will be used in many, many different products.

Whilst I appreciate that some of the cost are shared through the range, it is hard to believe those tiny headlights and that 10 speed gearbox are going to feat in many models (though I may be wrong) and  the interior is so bespoke that I would be surprised if Lexus- Toyota  benefited hugely in development, but it may have done in association.

[Alan305]

14 hours ago, RiverFred said:

The only exception would be the corvette at $85,000, however the quality sucks.

2021 US Sales, LC500 = 3,000. Corvette = 33,000.

I really enjoyed my Corvette but wouldn’t ever compare it to Lexus quality. Surprisingly both my Camaro and Corvette V8’s were totally reliable, and pretty good in a straight line. There’s a reason the US doesn’t have many roundabouts.

[Winston]

13 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The gearbox is used in multiple vehicles, including certain Toyota Land Cruiser models, and others use a variant in the same family so the development costs aren't really associated with the LC. Plus Aisin, who make the transmission, would use some of the R&D from this transmission and use in designs they sell to other manufacturers such as Porsche.

Hi Colin

I think you know much more than me, but are you saying that the 10 speed box that is in the LC is in another vehicle, or do you mean that some parts of the design are used?

[Winston]

from the Lexus UK site but May be out of date now
 

Power is directed to the rear wheels using a new 10-speed automatic transmission – the first of its kind to be featured in luxury car – with shift times that rival a dual-clutch transmission. The unit is smaller and lighter than some current eight-speed transmissions. The closely spaced gears provide a wide shifting bandwith, providing an ideal gear for all driving conditions. The transmission is matched to a new electric control system with software that helps anticipate the driver’s inputs by monitoring acceleration, braking and lateral G-forces.

 

[Spock66]

12 hours ago, Winston said:

I think you know much more than me, but are you saying that the 10 speed box that is in the LC is in another vehicle, or do you mean that some parts of the design are used?

Maybe Toyota are planning a Prius minicab special with LC mechanics 😊

[Winston]

30 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

Maybe Toyota are planning a Prius minicab special with LC mechanics 😊

And a 5 litre V8 as a backup engine 

[ColinBarber]

18 hours ago, Winston said:

Hi Colin

I think you know much more than me, but are you saying that the 10 speed box that is in the LC is in another vehicle, or do you mean that some parts of the design are used?

Both actually.

Same transmission used here and also the Lexus LS 350 and 500:

The LC 500h transmission is in the Lexus LS 500h

 

The front wheel drive 8 speed transmission that was developed alongside the rear wheel drive 10 speed used in the LC is used in the US RAV4, Camry, Highlander etc.

https://global.toyota/en/powertrain/transmission/

 

 

[Winston]

4 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Both actually.

Same transmission used here and also the Lexus LS 350 and 500:

The LC 500h transmission is in the Lexus LS 500h

 

The front wheel drive 8 speed transmission that was developed alongside the rear wheel drive 10 speed used in the LC is used in the US RAV4, Camry, Highlander etc.

https://global.toyota/en/powertrain/transmission/

 

 

I had better pen a stern letter to the editor of the Lexus magazine then😃

[RiverFred]

Another factor to consider is the number sold. I live in California and found the number sold in the USA for the LC500: carsalesbase.com › us-lexus-lcLexus LC US car sales figures 2019. 1.219. 2018. 1.979. 2017. 2.484

[Malc]

looks like the sales have already peaked in the USA

Malc

[Winston]

3 hours ago, Malc said:

looks like the sales have already peaked in the USA

Malc

I think sales are down all over