2009 GS450H suspected Inverter failure

[hazelnut]

Hi. Firstly, I am new here, so hello to all.  Here is a little background on my new to me Lexus. I recently purchased the car from Copart - it looked just too nice to pass up. I had the car delivered, and it was totally dead. The delivery guy helped push it onto the driveway, and later that evening I installed a replacement 12V Battery, just to see what things happen. Well all the lights lit up nicely, but the car has the dreaded 'Check Hybrid system' message, and will not start. I managed to track down the previous owner as I sent him some of his person items back. He told me the garage suspected the inverter was dead, and told me the car ran lovely just prior to that. So I have a techstart dongle thing on order to get codes etc, but I wondered if I do need an inverter, where is a good place to get a used one? Also I noticed on eBay a G9200-30030 inverter, but my research shows I am supposed to have a G9200-30051, Is there a difference ?

I can't wait to get the car going.

-Hazel

[Herbie]

I'm always up for a challenge but are you serious? You really bought a totally dead hybrid car?

I don't think I'd be brave enough to do that but hey, every credit to you if it works out.

This previous topic will hopefully help. Let's hope you don't need a brand new inverter at €13,822.24 (as it was then).

 

 

 

[hazelnut]

Thanks Herbs,

I think I did read that thread, and a few more. Yes, I did buy a dead hybrid, I am interested to figure out how it works, I'm an electronics engineer by trade, but my hobby is cars, so this seems to tick many boxes. If it turns out the inverter is dead I will attempt a repair.

-H

[steve2006]

Hello Hazel and welcome to the LOC.

Techstream is a must for diagnostics, apparently the use of lead free solder has not helped in the inverter units which are prone to defects because of it.

I also seem to remember the  HV contactors burn out due to back EMF arcing.

What ever the cause Techstream first and any work a pair of class O gloves before touching anything hybrid!

There is a company called Hybrid Battery Solutions ( member on here) but not sure if they do inverters.

[Steven Lockey]

2 hours ago, hazelnut said:

Thanks Herbs,

I think I did read that thread, and a few more. Yes, I did buy a dead hybrid, I am interested to figure out how it works, I'm an electronics engineer by trade, but my hobby is cars, so this seems to tick many boxes. If it turns out the inverter is dead I will attempt a repair.

-H

I wish you the best of luck, I think the main issue will be there are a lot of integrated components where the only option will
be to replace the whole unit which isn't cheap. 

I'm assuming you got it at basically scrap price as with a failed invertor, if you paid more you where ripped off lol
While an electronic engineer (I used to be as well 🙂 ), if you've not had experience with mid/high voltage systems, please
be very careful once the system is energised. 800v can jump a surprisingly long way in the right conditions. 

I think the other issue you may have is that you really need to elevate it to work on it, so I hope you have access to a ramp/car elevator
of some description. I can't imagine it'd be a fun job to try if you are just putting the car on jacks.

You might want to see if any scrapheaps near you have any 450h, may be your best bet for replacement parts you don't need to trade a kidney for 😉 

[ColinBarber]

13 hours ago, hazelnut said:

Also I noticed on eBay a G9200-30030 inverter, but my research shows I am supposed to have a G9200-30051, Is there a difference ?

I believe they can be interchanged based on this thread.

 

[hazelnut]

Hi Colin, that is good to know about the interchange. I am still waiting for my Mini VCI from  2022 V17 J2534 Mini VCI Cable for Toyota Lexus Scion Techstream OBD2 Diagnostic | eBay This is the same guy referenced on another thread about the VCI interface cable.  Its been over a week now, and I am getting impatient. Is there another source for these if this doesn't show up? Oh, my 500V gloves and over gauntlets arrived today, so I'm all ready to start fiddling with the power couplings.

[Malc1]

On 11/27/2022 at 10:26 PM, steve2006 said:

company called Hybrid Battery Solutions ( member on here) but not sure if they do inverters.

I don't know if this is the same business as from many many months back ..............  on the Ls600 section ??? ............. where a company does actually repair these inverters at a sensible cost ....  maybe !

Good luck tracking it all down and succeeding with a sensible repair or replacement

 

Malc

[Lwerewolf]

Swap in the newest that you can find, RHD inverters are plentiful. Check the fuses in the big engine bay fuse box, ICGT (no. whatever) is very likely shot. While you're at it, swap in a 3.769 JDM(/USDM) final drive diff for better just-about-everything.

...actually, read the codes beforehand... in case it's unrelated.

[hazelnut]

I have my special gloves now, so I can begin diagnosis, but still no cable, thanks to Postie strike. @Lwerewolf Are you saying the inverters 2006->2011 ( 9200-30030 & 9200-30051 ) are interchangeable? Or that all inverters 2006-> 2015 are all interchangeable? Including the G9200-30090 aka MK4 GS450H (2012->2015) ?

[Lwerewolf]

All RHD 3GS (GWS191) and Crown GWS204 (it is RHD only anyways) inverters should be interchangeable. MK4 is different (LS600h-style double-side cooled IGBTs, practically eternal). If you look around (you know, google 😛 ), you can find a lot of info about our particular inverters and what works (including putting in a camry hybrid IPM) and what doesn't. Since there are plenty of RHD 3GS inverters - just drop a new one it.

Aaaaand again - get codes first, make sure it's not something else. RHD inverters are cheap, but the Battery is a somewhat significant expense.

[hazelnut]

Finally, I got the codes!

U0110 Lost communication with Drive Motor Control Module "A".

ABS codes C1241,C1259,C1310,U0291

AC codes B1421,B1424

Sonar B2243

Power Source Control B2281

Gateway B1297

Looks like some more money to be spent on lexus-tech...

PS I did a "Health Check" and stored the data in a file, but I did not erase the DTCs, as I really don't know what I am doing yet, and it said it was going to erase a bunch of other stuff which I wasn;t sure if I had saved that I might need.

[hazelnut]

I paid some more cash to lexus-tech to use the online manuals (I'd rather just buy a CD if one is available). The DTC troubleshooting LED me to check fuse 14 aka IGCT No.2 that feeds the inverter. It was blown. I sustituted with the 7.5A from the interior dome lights, and it blew again. So I guess that is pretty conclusive the inverter is dead.  The inverter coolant bottle was totally full, so not a case of an over-heat event. Seems like the control board has failed one morning.

[hazelnut]

Next step is to remove the inverter and have look inside it. Don't worry I am an electronics engineer for my day job! Interestingly my car still has the engine under tray on, so I am going to have to get the front up high enough to be able to remove the engine protection and then drain the inverter coolant out. Which leads me to my question. Are there any car RAMPS out there suitable for these 245mm wide tyres?  

[Herbie]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:10 PM, hazelnut said:

I sustituted with the 7.5A from the interior dome lights, and it blew again. So I guess that is pretty conclusive the inverter is dead.  The inverter coolant bottle was totally full, so not a case of an over-heat event.

Maybe, maybe not.

It may be full but is the pump circulating the coolant around the inverter? I'd be inclined to test the pump first.

Oh, and sadly no, the workshop manuals aren't available on CD.

[hazelnut]

48 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Maybe, maybe not.

It may be full but is the pump circulating the coolant around the inverter? I'd be inclined to test the pump first.

Oh, and sadly no, the workshop manuals aren't available on CD.

I don't think I can test the pump until I fix the inverter, as I believe (OK guess) the Inverter runs the inverter coolant pump? I could look it up, but that will cost me £5 to access the manuals! I managed to jack the car up in the special place with the holes in the cross member, and put jack stands on. When my fingers thaw out I might have a go at removing those 11 screws.

[Herbie]

Some pumps have been known to eat their bearings, so a mechanical problem rather than electrical/electronic, so it may be worth taking it out anyway?

[hazelnut]

I managed to remove the invertor and take a look inside. Totally blown up, all the IGBTs has failed catastrophically.  Invertor shopping for christmas then I guess.

 

[Malc1]

is there somewhere to refurbish the " blown up " unit maybe ?

Good luck

Malc

[hazelnut]

I couldn't get a Lexus inverter, so I have ordered a Toyota Crown G9200-30070 inverter. It looks identical and comes with 30 day warranty as well. I also got 24 hour DPD delivery, which seems hopeful given the time of year. 

 

[Initial P]

Prob will say Denso on it 😉

[Malc1]

and the price ?

Malc

[hazelnut]

So it worked! The replacement inverter fit right in, and the car now starts and drives. Although I swear I can smell burning electrical things from the inverter when I get back from a leisurely drive.  I added some 0W20 oil to bring the level up to Max, but now I see I have the AFS light blinking. Is this an MOT failure? I have booked an MOT for tomorrow, so I hope not.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, hazelnut said:

but now I see I have the AFS light blinking. Is this an MOT failure? I have booked an MOT for tomorrow, so I hope not

It isn't directly provided self-levelling is still working and the beam alignment/pattern is correct.

[hazelnut]

Techstream gives a B2416 "Height Control Sensor" . sure enough the front height rod is snapped. But where to get replacement? The parts reference indicates a very expensive part...