What's the problem with electric vehicles

[toffee_pie]

We seem to be creating a divided society, one of sheep listening to experts, science and governments and one of realists and actually the whole point of this stuff going on is to create just that - Carbon credits are basically redistribution of wealth but people aren't reading between the lines,or rather lies 

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Full list of all 24 'harmful' terms scientists want to ban - including 'female',

Seen that one today... cracked me up in the train... what is socially acceptable term now "eggs producing individual"?! 😄   

3 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

We seem to be creating a divided society, one of sheep listening to experts, science and governments and one of realists and actually the whole point of this stuff going on is to create just that - Carbon credits are basically redistribution of wealth but people aren't reading between the lines,or rather lies 

I have no issue listening to the actual experts, the problem is that so called "experts" nowadays more often are the same vegetables who are just pretending to be smart and maybe have degree in gender studies or something laughable like that... but importantly on shows like GMB, they put panel with one actual expert and 3 others who have no qualification at all, but the thing is - they ask and respond to questions in equal way, hosts giving everyone equal time to express themselves and making it look like there is debate between 4 equally qualified people... despite one being actual doctor, other one actual professor in some scientific subject, the third one barista and the last one pink hair lady who hasn't had a job in her life... and she is 37! And we looking at them and expecting a balanced debate where everyone have equal rights to express their "opinion". I am sorry to say, but some people opinion just doesn't matter, because they are not qualified to have an actual opinion... 

 

[Steven Lockey]

14 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

 

I am sure that you are not the only one.

 

But the places where material for batteries are taken out of the earth and where batteries are made and where sooner or later all the not reusable parts of batteries are stored will pollute a lot more than many think and pollution is not something that you can keep where you pollute. It spread to even the place where you live.

 

 

 

The mining is 100% an issue. This does need to be balanced against the damage averted from reduced oil drilling however.

Recycling less so, they already know how to recycle 95%+ of li-ion batteries, they are currently upscaling facilities in multiple places.
With the increasing cost of lithium/cobalt its economical to do it. Money to be made and all.

[toffee_pie]

There's experts and there's experts paid off by NGOs. A pandemic agreement has been signed off by the world nations since 2021 giving the WHO a free run to terrorise the world with health issues, diseases, vaccine IDs, lockdown events and whatever else they wish to do. 

In a similar fashion to the councils in the country implementing totalitarian measures and no doubt happening all over the west. None of this is possible without experts.

....Welsh government axes ALL the country's major road building projects - and say no more will be built unless they won't cause more cars or higher emissions.

it's going to get much much worse and it's 'only' 2023. It's what happens when powerful people are pulling the strings 

 

 

 

 

[Steven Lockey]

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Global warming is GLOBAL issue, so it does not matter what EPA says, because EPA is JUST US.

Sorry, missed that bit. Americans always talk like the US is the whole world so thought they were world figures.
Even so, cutting emissions by even 5% by going electric would be a huge step in the right direction.

 

Quote

How about not walking next to the road? Do you go to major harbour and complain about ships sailing there? Do you go behind the engine of the plane before boarding and complaining that it blows emissions into your face?

Do you have ANY CHOICE but to walk next to the road in any town or city?
Other two you have a choice, that's the difference. Cars are everywhere and that's not likely to change.

 

Quote

. so anyway you cut it there is no avoiding the road pollution, unless you solution is to go back to stone age and just walk everywhere and live "off-grid

No, my solution was the sensible one to cut kerbside pollution as much as possible. Also the follow up study showed EV particle production to be a lot lower
the same as other cars as while it produced more tyre particulates, it used regenerative braking more so produced less brake dust.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Seen that one today... cracked me up in the train... what is socially acceptable term now "eggs producing individual"?! 😄   

I have no issue listening to the actual experts, the problem is that so called "experts" nowadays more often are the same vegetables who are just pretending to be smart and maybe have degree in gender studies or something laughable like that... but importantly on shows like GMB, they put panel with one actual expert and 3 others who have no qualification at all, but the thing is - they ask and respond to questions in equal way, hosts giving everyone equal time to express themselves and making it look like there is debate between 4 equally qualified people... despite one being actual doctor, other one actual professor in some scientific subject, the third one barista and the last one pink hair lady who hasn't had a job in her life... and she is 37! And we looking at them and expecting a balanced debate where everyone have equal rights to express their "opinion". I am sorry to say, but some people opinion just doesn't matter, because they are not qualified to have an actual opinion... 

 

All this gender stuff is just plane bonkers but have you noticed it's only since 2019 and covid ish that this stuff took off - that's experts again. Kids at school now are getting tortured with nonsense, eat bugs, combustion engine cars are killing you, women don't exist - this is the crap they are told - my niece declared herself a veggie last year, she's 7. It's what rubbish she is told at school or on social media. 

 

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

All this gender stuff is just plane bonkers but have you noticed it's only since 2019 and covid ish that this stuff took off - that's experts again. Kids at school now are getting tortured with nonsense, eat bugs, combustion engine cars are killing you, women don't exist - this is the crap they are told - my niece declared herself a veggie last year, she's 7. It's what rubbish she is told at school or on social media. 

It definitely started like 10 years ago, but I agree since the start of pandemic it really became on the nose ridiculous... perhaps lockdowns and general division added to that, because nowadays you can no longer have varied opinion... you are either in one camp or another. Basically, if you disagree with veganism, or cycling or child gender surgery, then you automatically a bigot and anti-waxer... and it doesn't matter what you think about vaccine or women. Or vice versa, if you don't believe in mandatory experimental vaccine and "freedom pass", then you suddenly ruzzian troll... again it does not matter what your actual opinion is... and generally it seems there are only two options now - either be woke post-modernist liberal or be old fashioned conservative bigot and nothing in between. 

So some underlying currents were already flowing for at least decade, but this "us and them" divide really kicked in since pandemic... perhaps divisions started since brexshaite, but they certainly became much more pronounced in last 3 years. 

I think probably contributing factor in it becoming worse is the censorship which was implemented with pandemic... I understand why it was done and some may justify that it may have been needed to some extent to prevent conspiracy theories flowing (remember people burning 5G masts at the beginning?!), but censorship killed much more than conspiracy theories, government really overdone it (and perhaps not by accident). It killed all public debate altogether and this is very dangerous, because free speech is very important. Before opposing opinion could be raised and discussed, even if it ends up in crap throwing contest at each other, having that conversation helped to at least explore opposing views, raise arguments and to find some common ground (sometimes)... but post pandemic that is gone, there is no discussion between two camps, each lives in it's own silo, each reads their own newspapers, their own channels, sits in their own facebook groups and perpetually self-congratulates on how brilliant they are. I think it really reached the point where dialog between two groups is no longer possible, they think so far apart and are so isolated that they neither discuss, nor debate and even if they do they would not be able to even begin to understand alternative perspective.

I guess that makes me conspiracy theorist... and ruzzian troll... lol 😄 

[Las Palmas]

8 hours ago, Steven Lockey said:

The mining is 100% an issue. This does need to be balanced against the damage averted from reduced oil drilling however.

Recycling less so, they already know how to recycle 95%+ of li-ion batteries, they are currently upscaling facilities in multiple places.
With the increasing cost of lithium/cobalt its economical to do it. Money to be made and all.

The mining is an issue. Destroying the earth is more than that. Has nothing to do with oil drillings at all. There is no balanced or good way of drilling after something that eventually will no longer be there when all used up, and that is completely not needed. Only fools and horses believe that batteries are the good environmentally safe way to power vehicles transporting all of us and the items we think we cannot live without.

They can recycle part of the materials at extremely high use of energy and polluting water while doing that. Most of the materials (that are or rare earths, just materials bonding the heavy batteries together, which is most of it) are not being reused, just thrown away.

Money rules, make short sighted profit and destroy the planet our children shall have after us. Have as clean air as possible where you walk; the places where batteries are mined and produced - screw those living there. That is a disgusting way to think.

Good stupid politic. Donald like your way of thinking. Not Donald Duck.

 

 

[Moleman]

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It definitely started like 10 years ago, but I agree since the start of pandemic it really became on the nose ridiculous... perhaps lockdowns and general division added to that, because nowadays you can no longer have varied opinion... you are either in one camp or another. Basically, if you disagree with veganism, or cycling or child gender surgery, then you automatically a bigot and anti-waxer... and it doesn't matter what you think about vaccine or women. Or vice versa, if you don't believe in mandatory experimental vaccine and "freedom pass", then you suddenly ruzzian troll... again it does not matter what your actual opinion is... and generally it seems there are only two options now - either be woke post-modernist liberal or be old fashioned conservative bigot and nothing in between. 

So some underlying currents were already flowing for at least decade, but this "us and them" divide really kicked in since pandemic... perhaps divisions started since brexshaite, but they certainly became much more pronounced in last 3 years. 

I think probably contributing factor in it becoming worse is the censorship which was implemented with pandemic... I understand why it was done and some may justify that it may have been needed to some extent to prevent conspiracy theories flowing (remember people burning 5G masts at the beginning?!), but censorship killed much more than conspiracy theories, government really overdone it (and perhaps not by accident). It killed all public debate altogether and this is very dangerous, because free speech is very important. Before opposing opinion could be raised and discussed, even if it ends up in crap throwing contest at each other, having that conversation helped to at least explore opposing views, raise arguments and to find some common ground (sometimes)... but post pandemic that is gone, there is no discussion between two camps, each lives in it's own silo, each reads their own newspapers, their own channels, sits in their own facebook groups and perpetually self-congratulates on how brilliant they are. I think it really reached the point where dialog between two groups is no longer possible, they think so far apart and are so isolated that they neither discuss, nor debate and even if they do they would not be able to even begin to understand alternative perspective.

I guess that makes me conspiracy theorist... and ruzzian troll... lol 😄 

Totally agree.

You even see it on this site (do not mention cycles).

Open debate, discussion, the concept of free speech, an exchange of ideas to improve understanding. Near enough dead.

What is worse, is that this has been hastened by those who should protect such ideals, the press, education (especially university).
 

Is there one thing which may have caused this? Access to social media applications, the misuse of information for power and money. Control the information and you begin to control how people think. You also become very rich.

Governments have already lost control.

[flotsam]

20 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

and quite a few governments are now investing in hydrogen start-ups.

Maybe, but it looks like they're going to offer hydrogen for haulage, industry and shipping first, whilst herding the masses towards Battery powered cars. It's similar to the red diesel only to be sold to truckers.

[flotsam]

Apparently the national gas grid is looking at hydrogen!

FINALLY! Don't bother with a krappy heat pump!

[Las Palmas]

13 minutes ago, flotsam said:

Maybe, but it looks like they're going to offer hydrogen for haulage, industry and shipping first, whilst herding the masses towards battery powered cars. It's similar to the red diesel only to be sold to truckers.

When hydrogen is available many places, the cars that BMW, Honda, Hyundai and Toyota make will be more interesting and price for fuel cells are going the right direction.

It is OK to start where pollution is very big. Cars for private transport pollute so little that in the big picture it is hardly visible.

[dutchie01]

On 2/15/2023 at 7:05 AM, flotsam said:

Lexus have opted to ditch hydrogen. So once again we're being given VHS rather than Betamax or Video2000.

 

you can buy this one? its in the showroom.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/mirai/build

Too expensive? how about this one?

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/nexo

 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

you can buy this one? its in the showroom.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/mirai/build

Too expensive? how about this one?

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/nexo

 

With hydrogen it isn't the cars that are the problem. But in most places like UK for example there are no hydrogen stations. There used to be 3 in London, but the one near me was closed recently. So for example for me the only hydrogen station is like 20 miles away, which in London traffic is 2 hours drive. 

[Mr Vlad]

Sorry Bernard but that video is over a year old and basically useless. Things have moved on at a huge amount where hydrogen manufacture is concerned. Blimey they're making the stuff with sea water and not using the amount of energy needed a year ago.

[dutchie01]

Vlad, isnt it too easy to describe anything that disturbs your Hydrodream as fake news, out of date or irrelevant?

I have not made a choice between ICE/BEV or Hydro, i am fine with all of them but it seems that an open exchange of thought is sometimes difficult if the other side puts its fingers in their ears and says lalalalala

[Las Palmas]

14 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Vlad, isnt it too easy to describe anything that disturbs your Hydrodream as fake news, out of date or irrelevant?

I have not made a choice between ICE/BEV or Hydro, i am fine with all of them but it seems that an open exchange of thought is sometimes difficult if the other side puts its fingers in their ears and says lalalalala

Bernard,

do you think that the gigantic companies investing heavily in hydrogen are making no progress?

Taxi airplanes are now authorized 2 places in the world powered with hydrogen, trains are running on hydrogen since more than half a year, places where electric cables hanging are too expensive to maintain, 3 major car manufacturers are working on cars with fuel cells and one even with combustion engine. Truck companies are delivering with hydrogen powered cars in some cities where diesel trucks are not allowed.

Heavy industry will be first and when enough of charging places are available where the hydrogen trucks and boats and cement factories place their hydrogen factories there will be people trying out hydrogen cars. It is easier to plug in your computer to the 220 - 240 V net than to find a hydrogen fuelling station. They will come.

So, you just say: lalalalala

 

[Mr Vlad]

Bernard I don't have a hydrodream as you put it. I'm a lifetime petrol head even tho I've had 4 diesel cars. 

I do have an Interest in different forms of powering a car. I've looked at EV'S but to me even though they make sense are uneconomical. 

Where my greater Interest lays is in hydrogen power. The Toyota Mirai to me is a stunning looking car and it is it's engineering that took hold of me.

Until, if ever, I win a substantial sum on the lottery my is250 will keep me mobile. Oh and if I'm lucky my garage would have a UX250H and a RCf and my is250 which I'd modify.

[flotsam]

And we already know the electricity grid can't take it if everyone had a Battery powered car.

There's talk of cars feeding electricity back into the grid, but that sounds as though they want cars to store the excess energy from intermittent renewables.

[Mr Vlad]

https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/news/2022/10/wraps come off hydrogen refueller as jcb unveils industry first

Well I never. Just read this article and well done JCB 👍

[Mr Vlad]

OMG you really HAVE to watch this. Absolute gem 

 

[Las Palmas]

18 hours ago, flotsam said:

And we already know the electricity grid can't take it if everyone had a battery powered car.

There's talk of cars feeding electricity back into the grid, but that sounds as though they want cars to store the excess energy from intermittent renewables.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/37405994.html

Toyota has made a way to transport hydrogen power that can make electricity. In Germany there is a company making far larger capsules to transport to wherever power is needed, but so far, I have not seen useful information about it, but it is from a place that promise only to make hydrogen from surplus power from electric grid and from solar cells and windmills.

Give it 3 - 5 years to become something that can be used.

What you mention about storing electricity in batteries and giving it back to the power grid, sounds so wasteful that nobody with just a little brain will consider that a good thing.

 

 

 

[toffee_pie]

In 2040 when people look back at this they will admire the skulduggery that went on to shape the future, politicians are the same the world over - self employed in an office with unlimited access to do as they wish and if you pay them enough money they will work for you too.

[The-Acre]

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

An interesting read highlighting something that will only get worse. Something that EV owners need to take notice of rather than assuming the shiny car with the green stripe on the reg plate means you've "done the right thing"

[Las Palmas]

7 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

An interesting read highlighting something that will only get worse. Something that EV owners need to take notice of rather than assuming the shiny car with the green stripe on the reg plate means you've "done the right thing"

This does not change the mind of the ones that have done the right thing. They do not care about anything else than they can be able to walk on the streets and know that the pollution from making their cars that drive around without noise are made somewhere else where poor people live. It will be a little different when they start digging for rare earth in their own backyards.