Budget tyres conclusively bad?

[Linas.P]

I have always believed that tyres are the most important safety feature in a car. Luckily for me, every time I’ve had an emergency, my car’s tyres have saved the day. Based on my own experience, I paid an extra £150 over three sets of tyres, which has saved me from at least three accidents where it probably would have been my fault regardless of someone cutting me off. Investing £150 for a potential saving of £10,000 is not bad at all. It seems the video below conclusively proves that there are no good budget tyres! Even the best budget tyre stopped 6.5 metres further in the wet than a premium tyre. Even in dry conditions, one would still be travelling at 20 MPH on a budget tyre by the time a premium tyre has already stopped. Just imagine stopping 6.5 metres beyond where the car in front of you stops or hitting it at 20 MPH! And then remember that crash tests are done at 15, 18 and 35 MPH, so you probably won’t die, but it will still be a huge crash… all to save £15 per tyre!

I can look past handling tests because it’s possible to argue that people on budget tyres can drive more carefully and not throw the car into corners. However, this doesn’t work when it comes to braking. It doesn’t matter how careful one is... they can’t control what other drivers do, and it’s always possible that somebody will cut in front of you and there will be nothing that careful driving can do in that moment.

That said, I think one part that’s still missing from the video is tread-life. I think this is what really makes “budget” tyres a false economy. The truth is that most premium tyres can last 20-30k miles (some lasted even longer in my experience, and that’s on a heavy RWD car with staggered set-up, meaning rotation was not possible and I was definitely not driving carefully). Most budget tyres only last about 10k miles, so taking an average of 8k miles per year, one only needs a set of premium tyres once in three years, but would likely need three sets of budget tyres in the same period. Many people do not realize this, but budget tyres are not only less safe but also not even cheaper!"

Finally, note that despite testing dozens of tyres, these were only the “most popular” budget tyres, and he didn’t test real gems of horror that can be found when browsing budget tyres. Note: as mentioned in the video, the second best premium tyre was 1.5% behind 1st place and then 8 of them fit in 0.5% spread. So 9 Premium tyres fits in 2% spread in performance... the best budget tyre was 8% behind and worst was 16% behind, so the difference is not minor! My conclusion, which will not surprise anyone, would be - why are they even legal? If it were up to me, I would honestly them!

 

[Las Palmas]

Being old fashioned and having used Continental tyres on most of our cars without problems there is little to no reason to go for other brands for us. Did put on a pair of same Pirelli that original was on the CT when first were close to not good enough and that was a mistake not going to be repeated. 80K km 2 sets of tyres on paved roads in a tiny CT is really bad, when Continental tyres on a heavy MB350SE on all kinds of really bad roads in Africa lasted 50K km. Tyres are now nearing the point where new are needed and though the rear are not really worn 4 new UltraContact are planned to be put on rather soon. Have been in car business and company was selling tyres, but never recommended very cheap tyres. You seldom get more than you pay for.

[Malc1]

The necessary, and any tyre quality does not always reflect the best experience when driving ......

my Honda legend came with Pirelli tyres from new and jeez, so glad when I changed them for Falkens .......  a Budget tyre  ?

The Pirellis gave such hard and harsh driving experience, the Falkens are a zillion times more comfy.  and quite inexpensive comparatively at the time 

AND my donkeys years of Falkens on my Ls400 have shown me just how good they actually are in practice . and as a budget tyre ?

Malc

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

The necessary, and any tyre quality does not always reflect the best experience when driving ......

my Honda legend came with Pirelli tyres from new and jeez, so glad when I changed them for Falkens .......  a Budget tyre  ?

The Pirellis gave such hard and harsh driving experience, the Falkens are a zillion times more comfy.  and quite inexpensive comparatively at the time 

AND my donkeys years of Falkens on my Ls400 have shown me just how good they actually are in practice . and as a budget tyre ?

Malc

Falkens are now considered Premium. 

The discussion here not about different options for premium tyres, and not even mid-ranges... It is about the tyres like "double-coin", "triangle", "run-fast", "good-ride" and similar bottom of the barrel trash which is technically road legal, but provides no grip or safety.

Pirelli and Bridgestone, despite being considered premium are not great value for money in my experience, but remember they still fit within 2% in terms of performance, now imagine how much worse the tyre has to be to trail 8-16% behind the premium tyres.

[serbarry]

When I had the Prius I put more than once a brand called Windforce. My local tyre garage suggested them. They always lasted at least 50,000kms and I have never had a problem with them even driving up to Dublin and back (270 kms of motorway each way) 3-4 times a year, sometimes under the rain (and you know in Ireland it rains a lot). Obviously I used to drive the Prius quietly as you can imagine the driving experience in a Prius. Maybe I was just lucky with these tyres or maybe they were not so bad. 

[Linas.P]

I would not like to find out if I am lucky or not, certainly not when the price is almost the same... I honestly would rather drive without insurance than on budget tyres. Because basically in my experience that works out better. As mentioned I do not drive carefully, more like "aggressively" if I say so myself and yet I still never had crash which was my fault, nothing I can do about other people crashing into me, but I have never crashed into anyone myself. Now my calculation is that over 16 years I have paid £20,110 for insurance and got absolutely £0 in return, even if I count 3 instances where other people crashed into me and assuming they were uninsured and somehow I needed to pay for insurance myself, even then I could not perceivably be better off as total I have paid for my cars was £19,500, so even if all cars were total write-offs (which they were not) there is still no way insurance was worth it for me. On other hand as mentioned I paid £150 extra for 3 set of tyres which 3 times saved me from crashing and the difference over cheaper tyres was ~£10-15 per tyre. When I mean tyres saved me, I mean there was nothing else - brake pedal planted to the floor and car in full emergency stop... and it stopped on the dime basically. Few times to be fair it wasn't extremely close, say 2m still left over 50m of breaking distance from 70MPH, but once it was 2cm left from the bumper of another car... so much so that we both got out to see if I crashed (in fact the other guy was obviously scammer and he jumped out shouting that I crashed into him and that his neck hurts, just to look like total bell-end when he realised there was that tine 2cm gap).

Any by the way that is nothing to say about the fuel saved, the comfort, the handling of the car which I am sure was more pleasant to drive on good tyres etc. I would say if budget tyres would at leas be true budget e.g. if Premium tyre was £200 per tyre and Budget £25 per tyre, then perhaps there is discussion to be had, but now when the difference is like £88 vs £65 I just really can't see the point... over 3 years that works out as £3/per month difference... you can't even buy a pint for that! I guess when it comes 22" wheels perhaps there is larger gap, but then I would assume that any car on 22" wheels should be rather expensive and powerful, so not exactly Prius which can get away with budget tyres.

[serbarry]

Of course if the difference is a few £ or euros it does not make sense to go for budget tyres. In my case with the Prius it was a mix of my ignorance for tyres and trust in my local garage. I paid 60 euros each some years ago. I am actually surprised that Debica Presto UHP2 are more expensive than some more known brands which should even be better than Debica.

https://www.tyres.ie/tyres/car/summer-tyres/245-40-18/200+201+202?page=3&sort=relevance   

[Linas.P]

Well, Debica is made by Goodyear and as far as I am concerned Presto UHP should be a copy of Dunlop Sportmaxx, somewhere in between RT and RT2 in performance. I guess the reason why it may be more expensive than some brands is that they have no good suppliers in UK or Ireland.  

Actually surprisingly expensive tyres considering Prius runs R16/195/55... and more difference then I expected:

But then again, I am not saying everyone should go for Michelin. £110 (even with £40 discount per set) is quite a lot more than £39, but there are still Kuhmo and Toyo tyres for £56 and £65 respectively.

[serbarry]

Linas what does it mean RT and RT2 please? Presto UHP2 were suggested to me by my local garage. 

[serbarry]

12 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well, Debica is made by Goodyear and as far as I am concerned Presto UHP should be a copy of Dunlop Sportmaxx, somewhere in between RT and RT2 in performance. I guess the reason why it may be more expensive than some brands is that they have no good suppliers in UK or Ireland.  

Are you saying that there are more similarities between Debica Presto and Dunlop Sportmaxx rather than between Debica and Goodyear which makes Debica?

[Linas.P]

21 minutes ago, serbarry said:

Linas what does it mean RT and RT2 please? Presto UHP2 were suggested to me by my local garage. 

Just a name of the tyre - Dunlop used to make SportMaxx RT and later RT2, both are obsolete now, but at the time (~2014-2016) they were my favourite UHP tyres. RT2 itself was basically identical to Goodyear Asymmetric 3, but Goodyear later replaced them with Asymmetric 4, 5 and now there are 6. So by that regard RT2 would be good UHP tyre, but 3 generations old.

17 minutes ago, serbarry said:

Are you saying that there are more similarities between Debica Presto and Dunlop Sportmaxx rather than between Debica and Goodyear which makes Debica?

Goodyear owns - Dunlop, Sava, Debica, Cooper and few more brands... Specifically Sava UHP 2, Debica Presto UHP 2, Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 2-3 and Dunlop SP Sportmaxx RT-RT2 seems to be nearly identical tyres, with just different names stamped on them and maybe some purely cosmetically differences to the thread pattern. I know for a fact - Sava and Debica makes Dunlop and Goodyear tyres in the same factories, just maybe on different lines. It would be fair to assume that Debica and Sava maybe do not get very best of the best compounds, so despite being launched around the time of say RT2, they maybe lack in performance slightly and are more comparable to RT, but then there was little difference between RT and RT2 anyway. But at the same time they still benefit from latest technology and know how, so maybe they won't beat best premium tyres like Continentals and Michelins, but they are strong mid-range by performance and definitely miles better than budget tyres in terms of safety.

Same can be said about Uniroyal - it is owned by Michelin and will be similar with last gen Michelin Products. So let's say Rainsport 5 I would expect to perform like Pilot Sport 3, and Rainsport 3, like Pilot Sport 2 (there was no Rainsport 4).

Same for Gislaved - owned by Continental. I guess you get the point by now...

Oh... and if it wasn't confusing enough, then Goodyear and Sumitomo has a deal which allows them to use each other brands... so some of Dunlops in Asia are made by Sumitomo, whereas Sumitomo and Falken could be made by Goodyear in US... and Europe from time to time can get tyres from both!

[VFR]

My god the waste !

Nowt wrong with remoulds I say & when they wear down you can even recut some of them.      😆

 

 

Well they were on my last A35

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, VFR said:

My god the waste !

Nowt wrong with remoulds I say & when they wear down you can even recut some of them.      😆

Well remoulds are exactly that - remoulds... so they could be anywhere from very good if they done on the base of premium tyre, to very horrible if they were made on budget tyre. In principle car tyres are not designed to be remoulded (some truck and heavy equipment tyres are made for that)... So I would say they are inherently unsafe and should not be legal to use (but sadly are legal) and performance is hit and miss. Certainly nowhere near even mid-range, but if one is lucky can be slightly better than budget tyres. 

If I ever needed to get tyres for very cheap, then I would rather go for just a set of good used tyres. Plenty of tyres with 5-6mm of thread left (that is like 70%) and for 25% of the price. 

[J Henderson]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

(there was no Rainsport 4)

Or Sport Contact 4, or F1 Eagle Asymmetric 4. I believe 4 is considered a "bad" number in some cultures...

As for budget tyres. I don't think I've ever actually bought any as, let's just say, I was definitely scared off them by working in a tyre shop for a couple of years when I was a lad. The amount of customers that came back with cheap tyres or remoulds that were deformed or literally falling apart was a real eye-opener.

Tyre technology has moved on since those days, but the old adage You get what you pay for still applies, and I view cheap tyres as a false economy and a potential risk.

The comparison in the video only shows the gulf between them when the tyres are new. It'll probably only get worse as the tread depth gets lower. One of the reasons why I'll pay the extra £££ for Michelins, is because they'll still perform great right down to the wear indicators.

[Linas.P]

There was comparison between premium and I believe mid-range... and premium was worse at 3mm than new mid-range... but when they compared premium 3mm to mid-range 3mm, the performance drop-off on mid-range was far greater than premium.

And I agree with second point - budgets are dodgy when new... imagine how bad they are when worn... and it is made so much worse by the fact they wear much quicker as well. Form me it always seems like disaster just waiting to happen.

As for the numbers I think it has more to do with marketing, like they all want to have highest number, and then sometimes they all skip number just to look like they are ahead... but yeah strangely many decided to skip 4. Although Michelin skipped 3 and went for 4 - Pilot Sport S 2 > Pilot Super Sport > Pilot Sport 4 S and now Pilot Sport S 5... And then I don't know whatever Dunlop does - because they haven't released any tyre for nearly 10 years now. Kind of weird considering they are still to this day considered Premium brand.

[flotsam]

They're LITERALLY where the rubber meets the road; about 16 in² each. I don't like to gamble which is why I would never buy a Tesla.

[Gary H]

Tyres are what keeps you on the ground and cornering, so that’s certainly one aspect of maintenance I’ve never personally ‘scrimped’ on. 

I’ll admit I’m a bit of a fussy so-and-so when it comes to tyres. On the new cars I’ve owned, whatever it left the showroom/factory on it what they will be replaced with. Alternatively, if that exact model of tyre is no longer available, I’ll replace it with the nearest equivalent of the same brand. I also replace tyres in at least pairs on the same axle, wherever possible. 

If I had to, I would happily consider a cheaper tyre (my father has bought a few in the past to compare) but I would have to do some research on them first.

[Fatts]

On 4/3/2023 at 7:02 PM, Linas.P said:

Just a name of the tyre - Dunlop used to make SportMaxx RT and later RT2, both are obsolete now, but at the time (~2014-2016) they were my favourite UHP tyres. RT2 itself was basically identical to Goodyear Asymmetric 3, but Goodyear later replaced them with Asymmetric 4, 5 and now there are 6. So by that regard RT2 would be good UHP tyre, but 3 generations old.

Goodyear owns - Dunlop, Sava, Debica, Cooper and few more brands... Specifically Sava UHP 2, Debica Presto UHP 2, Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 2-3 and Dunlop SP Sportmaxx RT-RT2 seems to be nearly identical tyres, with just different names stamped on them and maybe some purely cosmetically differences to the thread pattern. I know for a fact - Sava and Debica makes Dunlop and Goodyear tyres in the same factories, just maybe on different lines. It would be fair to assume that Debica and Sava maybe do not get very best of the best compounds, so despite being launched around the time of say RT2, they maybe lack in performance slightly and are more comparable to RT, but then there was little difference between RT and RT2 anyway. But at the same time they still benefit from latest technology and know how, so maybe they won't beat best premium tyres like Continentals and Michelins, but they are strong mid-range by performance and definitely miles better than budget tyres in terms of safety.

Same can be said about Uniroyal - it is owned by Michelin and will be similar with last gen Michelin Products. So let's say Rainsport 5 I would expect to perform like Pilot Sport 3, and Rainsport 3, like Pilot Sport 2 (there was no Rainsport 4).

Same for Gislaved - owned by Continental. I guess you get the point by now...

Oh... and if it wasn't confusing enough, then Goodyear and Sumitomo has a deal which allows them to use each other brands... so some of Dunlops in Asia are made by Sumitomo, whereas Sumitomo and Falken could be made by Goodyear in US... and Europe from time to time can get tyres from both!

Linas - I applaud the extent of background research you put in your write ups. As much as I am a committed petrolhead, I never knew Goodyear own the Dunlop brand . Keep up the good knowledge share👍

[Malc1]

14 hours ago, Fatts said:

I never knew Goodyear own the Dunlop brand

well guys, if their welly boots Dunlop brand are anything to go by, leaking from brand new, then one has to doubt their credibility making tyres too now ......... 😥

Malc

[Sundance]

27 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

well guys, if their welly boots Dunlop brand are anything to go by, leaking from brand new, then one has to doubt their credibility making tyres too now ......... 😥

Malc

Perhaps the simple difference is that welly boots don't qualify as being a potential killing machine. 😄

As for re-mould budget wellies - now there's a market for someone. 🤔 .... The Pound Shop?!?

[Malc1]

welly boots are a crisis management tool ...........  for those working in wet and muddy conditions AND if Goodyear can't get that simple product right .  it's their own brand one reads here, then one has to wonder how good they are at more important things in life these days ..........  like tyres  !

After all, they commonly call tyres " boots "

Malc

[Sundance]

And let's not forget the Cooper Tire & Rubber Company, yet another subsidiary of Goodyear 🙄 . Coopers have been making tyres since 1904 and provide arguably mid-range tyres with premium features. So we'll see, as I've recently bought a full set of their allseasons AS7s at a great price through Halfords. So far so excellent. 🤞

[DavidCM]

...a continuation of the family tree....that group,headed by Goodyear,also owns Avon Tyres.However,they have just shut down the factory in Melksham.They were the biggest supplier of tyres for the classic racing scene.

[Sundance]

5 hours ago, DavidCM said:

...a continuation of the family tree....that group,headed by Goodyear,also owns Avon tyres.However,they have just shut down the factory in Melksham.They were the biggest supplier of tyres for the classic racing scene.

... AKA the Cooper Tire & Rubber Company!

Oh well, never mind 🙃.

[Linas.P]

Avon being owned by Goodyear is rather new development, I must admit I have missed it. Bought it in 2021 and right away closed the factory!

To be honest I suspect Goodyear is just buying ailing tyre companies and runs them into the ground to get rid of competition. Dunlop is a brand with a lot of pedigree and under Goodyer management has not released new product in 9 years... how can premium tyre company survive on 9 years old semi-premium tyre? It can't...

As well do not mistake other Dunlop brands owned by dodgy Mike as being part of the group, it is part of Sports Direct empire and sells literal trash, has nothing to do with tyre company anymore.