Water Injection

[legendswraith]

Just out of sheer interest i was wondering if water injection had been tried on S/C T/C engines.

If water was injected into the airflow post compression it would have the effect of cooling the air and making it denser allowing the T/C S/C in effect to provide more boost at a lower temperature or possibly a limited period of higher boost if it could be controlled with the water injection to switch up and down as the water came on and off as i don't own a turbo i am assuming that the pressure is controlled by pressure tapping and venting excess turbo pressure so if a sensing pressure could be applies to the blow off when selecting water then i can figure a control method.

I must point out though this is just something i have mulled over today as i have been playing with thrust augmentation and never really though of applying it to cars (i must also get a generic book on turbos any recommendations)

Would like to know if its been done and if anyone has tried it and the results

Cheers

Leg

[jase_r]

yes it has been done if you search for DAZA_W and look at his car

:D :D :D :P

[marcus]

Just out of sheer interest i was wondering if water injection had been tried on S/C T/C engines.

If water was injected into the airflow post compression it would have the effect of cooling the air and making it denser allowing the T/C S/C in effect to provide more boost at a lower temperature or possibly a limited period of higher boost if it could be controlled with the water injection to switch up and down as the water came on and off as i don't own a turbo i am assuming that the pressure is controlled by pressure tapping and venting excess turbo pressure so if a sensing pressure could be applies to the blow off when selecting water then i can figure a control method.

I must point out though this is just something i have mulled over today as i have been playing with thrust augmentation and never really though of applying it to cars (i must also get a generic book on turbos any recommendations)

Would like to know if its been done and if anyone has tried it and the results

Cheers

Leg

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from what i know...........and i dont know that much

i think the only way to cool a T/C car more..........is have water injected onto the intercooler i dont think there is much more you can do to cool the air down.................some who would know all about this would be Matt or mark (TDI)

[Lexus Jim]

I thought the water was sprayed onto the intercooler. don't think you'd wan't water inside your engine

[legendswraith]

I think if you injected into the intercooler you would end up pooling water in the intercooler it would have to be into a straight airflow and prior to an air temp sensor to allow for the engine to fuel correctly

I would be very interested in what DAZA thinks of his set up and how its installed/ functions (because thats an impressive amount of modifications )

and besides if i don't come up with crazy ideas to keep my time occupied i'll only try to take over the world again :D

[legendswraith]

I thought the water was sprayed onto the intercooler. don't think you'd wan't water inside your engine

Well you don't want tap water :D normally demineralised water should be used or a methanol demin mix if its atomised enough the increase in air density and drop in engine temp for the given output should allow alot more overfuelling so the water isn't a problem it just ends up as vapour from your exhaust

[jase_r]

Water injection has been round for years, it sprays a very fine spray into the inlet manifold and cools the air and fuel and as you should all now the cooler the air the more you can cram in and the faster it goes, you can also spray the intercooler which also cools the air again (the evo has a automatic water spray on the intercooler and radiator).

As daza will probably tell you, it is very small amount of water as i dont think he as ever put any water in his yet.

[MacRS200]

Theory has been around for years, old geezers on bikes reckoned they went faster when it was misty.

First thing is the air is colder and more dense, second is that water is one third oxygen so bit in the engine is no problem it helps the burn :D

[Dayu]

The most common water injection system installed over here is Aquamist

www.aquamist.co.uk

[legendswraith]

its been used in aircraft for a long time just didn't know if it had been transposed to cars

[Rob]

it has been around for quite a while mate, as Dayu says above aquamist is the most common here.

for the intercooler, water is sprayed onto it, not into it, how effective this is i dont know, but i have my doubts.

i know the temps for the supercharger are high ( courtesy of tela temp labels) before the Intercooler it is well above 80C and at the throttle body it is about 70C

[DaveEllen]

it has been around for quite a while mate, as Dayu says above aquamist is the most common here.

for the intercooler, water is sprayed onto it, not into it,  how effective this is i dont know, but i have my doubts.

i  know the temps for the supercharger are high ( courtesy of tela temp labels) before the Intercooler it is well above 80C  and at the throttle body  it is about 70C

←

I was told that a reduction of 5 degrees could increase bhp by up 10% (not entirely sure of the figures) The idea being to use the intercooler spray when stopped in traffic to give a spurt when pulling away.

I'm sure there is a formula somewhere

[legendswraith]

it has been around for quite a while mate, as Dayu says above aquamist is the most common here.

for the intercooler, water is sprayed onto it, not into it,  how effective this is i dont know, but i have my doubts.

i  know the temps for the supercharger are high ( courtesy of tela temp labels) before the Intercooler it is well above 80C   and at the throttle body  it is about 70C

←

I was told that a reduction of 5 degrees could increase bhp by up 10% (not entirely sure of the figures) The idea being to use the intercooler spray when stopped in traffic to give a spurt when pulling away.

I'm sure there is a formula somewhere

←

There are formulas that incorporate water flow rates and such to work out gains made by dropping temperatures and i agree with not being able to see any advantage in spraying an intercooler with water, i can't see how it would effect any serious amount of cooling or heat transfer especially if the water temperature is the same as ambient temperature or indeed higher

Its just going to be working out what temperature decrease you would get from dropping the temp from normal to water injected and the subsequent overfuelling gains induced

[DAZA_W]

yes i have the aquamist setup in mine dont have to touch the water got big canister in boot keeps it all nice and cool

here is a pic you can just see the big can on the right

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/DAZA_W/AMPSlitup1.jpg

[Dave-Ellen]

it has been around for quite a while mate, as Dayu says above aquamist is the most common here.

for the intercooler, water is sprayed onto it, not into it,  how effective this is i dont know, but i have my doubts.

i  know the temps for the supercharger are high ( courtesy of tela temp labels) before the Intercooler it is well above 80C   and at the throttle body  it is about 70C

←

I was told that a reduction of 5 degrees could increase bhp by up 10% (not entirely sure of the figures) The idea being to use the intercooler spray when stopped in traffic to give a spurt when pulling away.

I'm sure there is a formula somewhere

←

There are formulas that incorporate water flow rates and such to work out gains made by dropping temperatures and i agree with not being able to see any advantage in spraying an intercooler with water, i can't see how it would effect any serious amount of cooling or heat transfer especially if the water temperature is the same as ambient temperature or indeed higher

Its just going to be working out what temperature decrease you would get from dropping the temp from normal to water injected and the subsequent overfuelling gains induced

←

I'm working on a intercooler spray currently.

What I aim to do is take temp readings from various places around the intake system (and the ambient temp) before & after the intercooler spray is applied.

Hopefully that will prove/disprove any theories out there.

hopefully we will see a reduction in the air temp going in which is what we want to see :winky:

[Rob]

it has been around for quite a while mate, as Dayu says above aquamist is the most common here.

for the intercooler, water is sprayed onto it, not into it,  how effective this is i dont know, but i have my doubts.

i  know the temps for the supercharger are high ( courtesy of tela temp labels) before the Intercooler it is well above 80C  and at the throttle body  it is about 70C

←

I was told that a reduction of 5 degrees could increase bhp by up 10% (not entirely sure of the figures) The idea being to use the intercooler spray when stopped in traffic to give a spurt when pulling away.

I'm sure there is a formula somewhere

←

that will be good dave, would like to see that when ur doing it, what sensors u going to use? if it has a thin enough cable u could slip it in under a sleeve.

There are formulas that incorporate water flow rates and such to work out gains made by dropping temperatures and i agree with not being able to see any advantage in spraying an intercooler with water, i can't see how it would effect any serious amount of cooling or heat transfer especially if the water temperature is the same as ambient temperature or indeed higher

Its just going to be working out what temperature decrease you would get from dropping the temp from normal to water injected and the subsequent overfuelling gains induced

←

I'm working on a intercooler spray currently.

What I aim to do is take temp readings from various places around the intake system (and the ambient temp) before & after the intercooler spray is applied.

Hopefully that will prove/disprove any theories out there.

hopefully we will see a reduction in the air temp going in which is what we want to see :winky:

←

[Dayu]

yes i have the aquamist setup in mine dont have to touch the water got big canister in boot keeps it all nice and cool

here is a pic you can just see the big can on the right

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/DAZA_W/AMPSlitup1.jpg

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That's a huge tank! How do you fit your golf bags into the boot?

This is probably of little relevance to drivers in the UK, but over here, people been considering a system where we redirect condensation off the air-conditioner back into the tank = self-supplied. The concern for these hardcore modders is that their engines are already so tuned-up, a sudden stoppage in water supply could result in rather severe engine damage!

[legendswraith]

I'm working on a intercooler spray currently.

What I aim to do is take temp readings from various places around the intake system (and the ambient temp) before & after the intercooler spray is applied.

Hopefully that will prove/disprove any theories out there.

hopefully we will see a reduction in the air temp going in which is what we want to see

i was thinking more along the lines of a spray ring with a pressure feed to allow the turbo to put out up to 116% (rough estimate) of normal boost pressure while water was being injected obviously theres alot of equations and research into the ability of the engine to withstand it without it sensing that somethings awry