Nebosh - Anyone Here Work In H&s?

[TheDon]

Well i will hopefully have my Nebosh level 3 in H&S in construction soon (been taking the rapid version of the course) as i take my final exam on the 8th December in Wandsworth.

I am taking this as i plan to do my Level 7 Nebosh Diploma in H&S, just wondering what peoples opinon on the ever changing H&S industry.

CMD is pretty much running itself at the moment and i want expand out in another direction.

Although at the way H&S pays i think that i may just wrap CMD up and go back to working for someone else full time if the pay is right.

I am definately looking back towards the Construction industry as it is the most dangerous proffesion along with the rigs and sea work.

But with the HSE moving towards looking to take travel accidents into the Riddor reporting system i can see the H&S industry going into full boom as companies try to stay under the radar of being investigated.

Any imputs of where you think H&S is at right now and where you see it in the future would be helpful as im so close to the start that i can almost taste it.

[Monster-Mat]

H&S is...the new watchword, the Military has very much been stung by it.....

id say its definatly a line of business to be involved in, i know a few people who are ex military that are having a good life on the other side of the wire by working within the H&S field

and NEBOSH is a very good cert to have

[aido]

I can't personally help fella but I have a couple of friends who do this for a living, and they do very well out of it :)

Might even look into this myself once I get bored of IT :D

[Nick The Greek]

Being on the receiving end of all the H&S tosh (I'm a site manager for a construction company), my view is that H&S guys are generally jobsworths who should go and get a real trade, and stop making my life more difficult than it already is!

H&S will never end, we will never be able to do anything 'correctly' in their eyes, and they will always pick holes in your work.

I appreciate we must have some H&S, but it is starting to get a bit ridiculous and is making life difficult and more time-consuming in the construction industry.

[Monster-Mat]

I appreciate we must have some H&S, but it is starting to get a bit ridiculous and is making life difficult and more time-consuming in the Warfighting industry.

Yup, same in my Job.....can you belive it......

[MacRS200]

Second the above. Problem is the people who write rules and oversee them don't know the job.

For example I am 1.85m tall and was "working at height" in a passage with a 3m ceiling fault finding a voice alarm system. I had to use "podium steps" with a 1.5m platform, with the guard rail closed, leaving me 1.5m to stand up in. Don't work does it, I was stooped like the hunchback of Notredame.

Add to that I had to wear a hard hat and safety glasses so me bloody hat kept falling off and the glasses misted up. And some tw*t decided that because of an increase in hand injuries gloves had to be worn at all times, I said "how do I wire terminal blocks with gloves on" so they gave me surgical gloves to wear what good are they FFS apart from making your hands sweat.

Bunch of jobs worths

[Nick The Greek]

Add to that I had to wear a hard hat and safety glasses so me bloody hat kept falling off and the glasses misted up. And some tw*t decided that because of an increase in hand injuries gloves had to be worn at all times, I said "how do I wire terminal blocks with gloves on" so they gave me surgical gloves to wear what good are they FFS apart from making your hands sweat.

Bunch of jobs worths

Yep, hence I don't insist on the gloves and glasses rule on my sites (it's not a legal requirement anyway). It causes more problems and accidents than it prevents.

The gloves I can understand (but until the HSE starts concentrating on subcontractors rather than main contractors this wont improve), butr the glasses is plain silly. Have the HSE guys tried wearing glasses/goggles everyday to do their work? I very much doubt it. If they enforced it on my site, then i'd fecking make sure they wear the stupid things when they write their stupid reports.

[waddy]

Yep, hence I don't insist on the gloves and glasses rule on my sites (it's not a legal requirement anyway). It causes more problems and accidents than it prevents.

The gloves I can understand (but until the HSE starts concentrating on subcontractors rather than main contractors this wont improve), butr the glasses is plain silly. Have the HSE guys tried wearing glasses/goggles everyday to do their work? I very much doubt it. If they enforced it on my site, then i'd fecking make sure they wear the stupid things when they write their stupid reports.

I also work for a construction company (as a QS) we have to budget for a visit once a month from an external body to come and inspect the sites (although we have our own internal department)

I used to work for Laing O'Rourke who wanted zero accidents, my argument was that you could educate people as to stupid things like hanging off of scaffold, etc but how are you going to stop a chippie hitting his thumb with a hammer? The world has gone H&S mad and it's all because of the American blame culture. One massive arse covering exercise.

Who do you work for Nick? I work for ISG Dean and Bowes now (interior fit out, shopfit work with structural alterations etc).

[Nick The Greek]

Yep, hence I don't insist on the gloves and glasses rule on my sites (it's not a legal requirement anyway). It causes more problems and accidents than it prevents.

The gloves I can understand (but until the HSE starts concentrating on subcontractors rather than main contractors this wont improve), butr the glasses is plain silly. Have the HSE guys tried wearing glasses/goggles everyday to do their work? I very much doubt it. If they enforced it on my site, then i'd fecking make sure they wear the stupid things when they write their stupid reports.

I also work for a construction company (as a QS) we have to budget for a visit once a month from an external body to come and inspect the sites (although we have our own internal department)

I used to work for Laing O'Rourke who wanted zero accidents, my argument was that you could educate people as to stupid things like hanging off of scaffold, etc but how are you going to stop a chippie hitting his thumb with a hammer? The world has gone H&S mad and it's all because of the American blame culture. One massive arse covering exercise.

Who do you work for Nick? I work for ISG Dean and Bowes now (interior fit out, shopfit work with structural alterations etc).

Will PT you as you never know who reads these boards

[Jocksuper7]

H and S in the RAF has gone mad, we proved a few weeks back that working on the Chinook with all the equipment that they say you have to have is almost impossiable, we have

A fall resraint harness and arrestor system, a skull cap because of the arrestor system being at head leve when activated, a fire proof head torch with a belt Battery pack like the old 1970s miners lamps snd the ussuals like steely boots and day glo vests but they are the norm and ok,

at any point in the chinny you are no more than 8m up and on work platforms, and when in the field we have a rifle slung round amongst all the harnesses and straps and they want the cabs quicker and safer.

its mostly desk jockeys covering arse that have no idea of the work involved with all this kit on, mix that up with saving money and you get a half arsed solution. I have seen risk assesments pinned up on the line tent in afgan for mines, small arms fire, mortars, carring a rifle, Americans (yep i know blue on blue), Rhd landys on the lhd side of teh rd, and some one had to sit and write all these out and fill in screeds of paper work for what in the end of the day is common sense, a sign says mines? dont walk in there, someone shoots at you? its an f***king war zone (or policing action,)

live with it or not as it may turn out there is heehaw you can do if your numbers up. they wont let you not do the job cause the bad men or women are sniping at you thats why you are there. how about saving the massive amounts of cash spent, on getting the troops boots that dont fall apart and body armor that they dont have to share and actually was devloped in the last 30 yrs!

Sorry rant over, but H and S has gone daft,

[Bulldog]

Have to agree with Mat that H&S is the new Buzz word.

I'm in the Fireservice and the amount of changes that have been brought in in the last few years is mind boggling, the Fire servive has gone Risk Assesment mad(for the good in some instances)

I have my IOSH cert and hopefully will get my work to pay for my NEBOSH!!!!

[fatpieman69]

I used to work for Laing O'Rourke who wanted zero accidents, my argument was that you could educate people as to stupid things like hanging off of scaffold, etc but how are you going to stop a chippie hitting his thumb with a hammer? The world has gone H&S mad and it's all because of the American blame culture. One massive arse covering exercise.

its all gone mad, my dad is self employed builder, if I help him out its just a nightmare! like has been brought out, gloves that make it more dificult and things like that. these procedures seem to cause more accidents than they prevent.

as for the job, if it pays well do it but remeber, work to live not live to work

Craig

[TheDon]

sorry guys havent been online for a few days, many thanks for your replies.

Personaly i can see it from both sides now, i was a project manager as both a sub contractor and the main contractor.

The thing is we all need H&S and we all use H&S to our advantage when we need to... otherwise we would still be working in cotton mills with lung diseases etc...

But in the end there will be a balance, maybe not for ten years but its just like the unions used to be... good at first, then it went too far and now there is a ballance.

to be honest all i can see from the coments you have put on there are definately bad work practices for h&S.

For example the scaffold tower, they should asses the job for the individual... as you dont have to use it if it is more likely to "increase" the risk of injury, they should use any "practiable" means to ensure the job is carried out without any potential damage to you or the job. Regardless of cost... is there no way a Genie hoist could be used, or a modular platform?

PPE is definately the biggest bone of contention in the workplace, but the ownus is on the employer to provide you with a range of PPE suitable for your build type and not just generic crap as it wont protect you.

But the biggest reason to remember why H&S is getting more strict is becuase more and more directors are being prosecuted and jailed becuase of their workers.... So to save their asses they have to do this.

All i can say is this - If you think H&S is Expensive and a waste of time - Think how expensive and how much time an accident will cost you........

[MacRS200]

TBH all I see here is the usual "mumbo jumbo claptrap" from a so called "H&S Professional"

For example the scaffold tower, they should asses the job for the individual... as you dont have to use it if it is more likely to "increase" the risk of injury, they should use any "practiable" means to ensure the job is carried out without any potential damage to you or the job. Regardless of cost... is there no way a Genie hoist could be used, or a modular platform?

Every task should be "risk assessed" and APPROPRIATE control measures put in place to reduce risk to ALARP.

In the case of working at height this should include the nature and duration of the task and also the individual carrying out the task. The first method of access condsidered should be a fixed scaffold or tower in all cases.

I cannot think of a case where using a tower would increase the probability of a person falling, however if there is no significant reduction in risk by using a tower over ladders for example, ladders may be used.

PPE is definately the biggest bone of contention in the workplace, but the ownus is on the employer to provide you with a range of PPE suitable for your build type and not just generic crap as it wont protect you.

PPE should be a last resort and not just issued "willy nilly", PPE to be used should be the product of a risk assessment where no other method of work will allow the task to be carried out. PPE should be issued as appropriate for the task at hand and the individual carrying out the task.

To say that I must wear gloves and safety glasses at all time is crap. That is not appropriate to any task I am doing as I am walking from point A to point B on site. If the state of the whole site is such that I have to wear that PPE all the time as there is a significant risk, the site should be closed!

But the biggest reason to remember why H&S is getting more strict is becuase more and more directors are being prosecuted and jailed becuase of their workers.... So to save their asses they have to do this.

Disagree with that, the reason is more H&S legislation being passed and the HSE being more stringent. The whole chain of things that puts the MD of a company responsible for ensuring that J. Soap on site works to the Method Statement and uses his PPE has not changed for as long as I can remember.

The vast majority of Directors, Managers and Foremen look at H&S from the point of view of "I don't want a death on my concience because I did not do my job", any who don't deserve jail.

All i can say is this - If you think H&S is Expensive and a waste of time - Think how expensive and how much time an accident will cost you........

Purile comment I'm afraid, H&S costs money, sure it does. Do you spend £1k to prevent someone falling from a 3m height, answer is yes. Do you spend £5k to stop the entire workforce from getting a minor cut on their finger, not worth it but it happens.

That's how stupid it's got.

[Keith Bowler]

Just read your post.

I am a QS and used to do a lot of Planning Supervisor work.

If you are in the 'know' you will know that in construction the new CDM regs are coming in and this will mean that only those with a Nebosh qualification can be appointed as a Planning Supervisor.

My practice just took on a young chap who we are putting through the Nebosh route and at the end he will be a Planning Supervisor with a remit for covering our appointments throughout the south east. His starting salary was circa £24k rising to around £30k when fully qualified.

If I were you I would stick with it, it will be worth it.

Shame you did'nt post six months ago cos I was looking for a PS.

Good luck.

[TheDon]

@ Mac RS200 - I could have put a massively long answer to the questions people posed but didnt feel it was needed.

I am fully aware of the complete nature of what is needed, but was just being specific to the statements posed, such as the scafold tower... his company already risk assesed that it was needed - i was merely interjecting that they hadnt been as thourough as they should.

As soon as i finish my exams i will be applying for my Diploma to level 7, and maybe after that i will do my HND if i can take the time.

I definately think that its better to be with the HSE rather than against them... lol

[TheDon]

Sorry for the length but for anyone thats been thwarted by the current H&S legislation this will make you laugh

TRAFALGAR

"Order the signal, Hardy."

"Aye, aye sir."

"Hold on, that's not what I dictated to the signal officer. What's the meaning of this?"

"Sorry sir?"

"England expects every person to do his duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability. What gobbledygook is this?"

"Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting 'England' past the censors, lest it be considered racist."

"Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

"Sorry sir. All naval vessels have been designated smoke-free working environments. ..

"In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the main brace to steel the men before battle."

"The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. Its part of the Government's policy on binge drinking."

"Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it. Full speed ahead."

"I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this stretch of water."

"Damn it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest, please."

"That won't be possible, sir."

"What?"

"Health and safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No harness. And they said that rope ladder doesn't meet regulations. They won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."

"Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."

"He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the fo'c'sle Admiral"

"Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

"Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier-free >environment for the differently abled."

"Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card."

"Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under-represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

"Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

"A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't let the crew up the rigging without crash helmets. And they don't want anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy."

"The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

"What? This is mutiny."

"It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There's a couple of legal aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

"Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?" "Actually, >sir, we're not."

“We're not?"

"No, sir. The Frenchies and the Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries policy, we shouldn't even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation. "

"But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

"1 wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-coordinator hear you saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary."

''You must consider every man an enemy who speaks ill of your King."

"Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; its the rules."

"Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum, sodomy and the lash?"

As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu. And there's a ban on corporal punishment."

"What about sodomy?"

"1 believe it's to be encouraged, sir."

"In that case ..kiss me, Hardy."