Should We Have To Pay To Advertise Our Cars On Our Forum?

[harrylime]

This has been discussed in another thread - how much success selling on LOC?, but I thought it appropriate to open this out for others, should they wish to comment.

In my view, advertising on the forum should be free of charge. There are enough people including main dealers, insurance companies, eBay, autotrader etc trying to get their hands in our pockets without being charged on our own forum. BMW, Jaguar, Audi forums et al do not charge to advertise, are they looking after their members better? A forum should be run be enthusiasts, for enthusiasts. In practical and economic terms, charging to advertise also makes no sense.How much revenue does it bring in? The last car advertised on LOC was in February of this year. The posts in the for sale section do not even appear as they have all timed out, they are so old. i never even look on there to see what is available.

If advertising is free it would result in less moderation as fewer "inferior non Gold members" would have the gall to mention that they have a car for sale in the wrong forum. A lot more ads would definitely appear in the for sale section, for cars and parts, this would stimulate a lot more interest, a lot more traffic from external visitors. It is simple commercial sense, and would provide a useful resource for those who participate in the forum. It would increase the likelihood that cars are passed from one genuine enthusiast to another, would make parts much easier to find, keeping some cars on the road and out of the scrapyard or banger racing track. It would also reduce friction on the forums and the apparent sense of superiority felt by some Gold members (and tempting as it is, that is not a euphemism). For those who want to pay a membership fee, having worked out cost vs benefit, that is fine. I do not use theme parks, and for me, it is not worth it.

[noby76]

agreed. it does make sense and would drive more traffic to the website for existing LOC members and non members who are looking to make a purchase since they will need to sign up as members first in order to make a purchase or communicate with other members which in turn will bring in new members to the forumn. I have also had a glance through the for sale section and there is nothing going on there as Hugh confirmed.

I know Hugh said it should be free but web space costs money so infact instaed of having to be a gold member in order to sell on LOC why dont they introduce a flat rate fee say £5 fee for 30 day ad space regardless of its the item being sold is a car or part. pay a 5iver advertise for 30 days with option of keeping it rolling the next month if the 30days runs out without the item / car selling.

question is how many of us use the Lexus dealership where we could save the 25% off servicing parts and labour the gold membership offers? best way to find out is for mods to carry out a yes or no survey asking members this question and i can bet only a fare few actually do.

my suggestion is not to scrap the gold membership but keep it for those who use the Lexus dealerships often where they will benefit from the 25% off offers and keep the for sale section open to all members to trade for a 30 day advertising space for £5. worth trialing this for a couple of months and see how much revenue it will generate for the site compared to the current gold membership solution. my 2 cents

[Stuno1]

agreed. it does make sense and would drive more traffic to the website for existing LOC members and non members who are looking to make a purchase since they will need to sign up as members first in order to make a purchase or communicate with other members which in turn will bring in new members to the forumn. I have also had a glance through the for sale section and there is nothing going on there as Hugh confirmed.

I know Hugh said it should be free but web space costs money so infact instaed of having to be a gold member in order to sell on LOC why dont they introduce a flat rate fee say £5 fee for 30 day ad space regardless of its the item being sold is a car or part. pay a 5iver advertise for 30 days with option of keeping it rolling the next month if the 30days runs out without the item / car selling.

question is how many of us use the Lexus dealership where we could save the 25% off servicing parts and labour the gold membership offers? best way to find out is for mods to carry out a yes or no survey asking members this question and i can bet only a fare few actually do.

my suggestion is not to scrap the gold membership but keep it for those who use the Lexus dealerships often where they will benefit from the 25% off offers and keep the for sale section open to all members to trade for a 30 day advertising space for £5. worth trialing this for a couple of months and see how much revenue it will generate for the site compared to the current gold membership solution. my 2 cents

Makes sense. 5 squids for listing seems reasonable and is cheaper than pistonheads, eBay, autotrader etc. Also agree there is no need to scrap gold membership as it clearly benefits some members.

[noby76]

Yes Stu secret is to undercut your competition.

[harrylime]

Charging still defeats the basic principle of providing a mutual benefit for all members. BMW, Jaguar, Audi etc, forums seem to manage without charging. If web space costs money, and an ad could, presumably, be posted just like any other post, using that logic, why not charge for discussion forums as well? Should those who post more often on discussions be charged more than those who do not? I am against charging in principle, and the amount charged is not really the point, in my view. Good to see an open discussion, though. Too often, we accept the status quo, even when it defies logic and common sense.

[noby76]

Charging still defeats the basic principle of providing a mutual benefit for all members. BMW, Jaguar, Audi etc, forums seem to manage without charging. If web space costs money, and an ad could, presumably, be posted just like any other post, using that logic, why not charge for discussion forums as well? Should those who post more often on discussions be charged more than those who do not? I am against charging in principle, and the amount charged is not really the point, in my view. Good to see an open discussion, though. Too often, we accept the status quo, even when it defies logic and common sense.

I understand you point raised Hugh if other car forumns can do this why cant LOC? obviusly any business is run to make revenue/returns on investment and can confirm someone(club founder) is paying to have this forumn run 24/7 on the web. maybe the other forumns are generating revenue in other ways where they can afford to have their for sale sections free to all members. but at the same time we live in the real world there are lots of products or services out there which could be given out for free or sold at a fraction of how much they are going for whilst still making a profit but thats not the case they rather bend us over and we dont have any choice than to take it...

I'll rather if its free to advertise but i can also see the £5 as giving something back in terms of both parties (buyer/seller) gaining a sense of satisfaction from the sale transaction. funds/revenue generated could also go towards hosting/funding LOC events where members get together chat have beers/drinks check out others cars socialise etc a prize draw could also be thrown in on those events where Lexus merchandising like T shirts, caps, wastches could be won for those who turned up etc.. all these ideas wont come from any ones pockets but from revenue genereted from the club by us enthusiats...

[Stuno1]

You have to remember the other forums you have mentioned have FAR more people on them and can generate money via other means. The lexus forum doesn't have that ability.

[Bluesman]

Does the forum not benefit financially from any of the huge companies that have advertising banners on this forum? Mike

[harrylime]

That's a very good question, Mike. They are increasingly intrusive and my popup blocker does not stop them. I imagine the host website must have to accept them? - Hugh

[bluenose1940]

I agree, it should be free. I am a member of numerous forums, in particular a photography forum where I have bought and sold numerous items over the years. I have also done a lot of selling and buying on a woodwork forum, all free of charge. I currently have my caravan for sale (on a caravan forum!) again no charge.

I always look in the classifieds and cars for sale as part of my visit to the site. I don't only look at the sections applicable to my own car. I look at the other sections because I might be tempted to get a different model of Lexus at some point.

[Stuno1]

Some forums have a length of time and minimum post count you must reach before you can sell. Stops people spamming sales section.

[ColinBarber]

Does the forum not benefit financially from any of the huge companies that have advertising banners on this forum? Mike

Unfortunately that isn't how it works. Those huge companies are not advertising directly, it is through AdSense type of advertising services, we aren't talking about £££ here it is pence.

The fact is the club struggles to pay its hosting costs. The vast majority of members are not gold members so alternative sources of income are required.

[noby76]

The fact is the club struggles to pay its hosting costs. The vast majority of members are not gold members so alternative sources of income are required.

Hence a proposed idea of a 5iver in exchange for a 30 day advertising space, this could also be open for members who have Lexus parts to sell or interested in doing car swaps e.g. someone looking to say exchage thier LS for a GS, an IS to a GS and vice verca. this idea will generate more revenue than that of what Adsense brings in .

[harrylime]

Does the forum not benefit financially from any of the huge companies that have advertising banners on this forum? Mike

Unfortunately that isn't how it works. Those huge companies are not advertising directly, it is through AdSense type of advertising services, we aren't talking about £££ here it is pence.

The fact is the club struggles to pay its hosting costs. The vast majority of members are not gold members so alternative sources of income are required.

Fair comment, but charging to advertise is not the answer, because nobody uses it. Even paying £5 makes little sense because the audience is so small, Pistonheads, Gumtree etc are free. Also, if selling parts, it makes no sense for the smaller/cheaper items when postage etc are taken into account. hence, cars being scrapped. If it is only pence for those ads btw, I would tell them where to stick it.

[mattyhart]

It might be a smaller audience but often it is a more focused audience. How many people visit 'gumtree' to look for lexus cars or parts - and how many would look for a lexus website?

[nelmo]

I doubt I would ever buy a car from this (or any other) forum. Anyone who is interested enough in their cars to join and participate in a forum is always going to, IMO, over-estimate the value of their car and thus price it too high. I've seen this happen several times on a couple of motorbike forums I'm on...

I bought my RX from a private seller who had the car for a year, knew little about it and just needed to cut down on his cars (he had 2 others already). Thus, I (think) I got a relative bargain.

Enthusiasts may look after their cars more but they also know their true value better.

[harrylime]

Slightly contradictory there, Neil. Are you saying they over value their cars or that they know the true value of their cars? In either event, I tend to disagree, because regardless of where the cars are advertised, reasons for selling are usually the same - change of circumstances, upgrading, wife won't drive it, moving home so losing the garage, want to try something different etc etc. Enthusiasts are more likely to look after their cars properly, be more knowledgeable etc. and will have researched more before buying in the first place. The price of a car will always be what someone will pay for it, the seller will always want more, the buyer will always want to pay less. I can see where you are coming from, and I have seen cars stupidly priced by private and trade sellers alike. I don't believe it's forum related though

[Exdee]

Web Hosting is cheap as chips these days.

It's not a good excuse. :)

[harrylime]

The almost total absence of any cars or parts appearing for sale confirms it is not a good excuse, as any income is minimal. I dislike the subtle pressure for members to upgrade to paid membership. The club is unique in charging, as far as I know. It does not look as if the policy will be reconsidered, which is a shame.

[PhilipK]

The fact is the club struggles to pay its hosting costs.

That's the first time that I've seen this stated anywhere. On another car forum (BMW Z4, so not a huge membership) they had a similar issue and so the moderators just explained the costs involved and put a "Donate" button on the site. Enough forum members voluntarily contributed that they were able to cover the costs.

[The-Acre]

What I find really interesting about this, is that a non Gold member is not allowed to advertise, and yet almost weekly someone puts on a post saying "has anyone seen this on eBay?" or similar, thus advertising someones car! But I can't put the details of my car on here, even though I've just put mine on eBay, which I have, but you'll have to guess which one it is.....

[Bluesman]

What I find really interesting about this, is that a non Gold member is not allowed to advertise, and yet almost weekly someone puts on a post saying "has anyone seen this on ebay?" or similar, thus advertising someones car! But I can't put the details of my car on here, even though I've just put mine on ebay, which I have, but you'll have to guess which one it is.....

The very reason I didn't renew my membership which was due this week. It is also interesting that not a single member of staff or moderator has bothered to at least have the good grace to acknowledge this thread exists. Mike

[The-Acre]

What I find really interesting about this, is that a non Gold member is not allowed to advertise, and yet almost weekly someone puts on a post saying "has anyone seen this on ebay?" or similar, thus advertising someones car! But I can't put the details of my car on here, even though I've just put mine on ebay, which I have, but you'll have to guess which one it is.....

The very reason I didn't renew my membership which was due this week. It is also interesting that not a single member of staff or moderator has bothered to at least have the good grace to acknowledge this thread exists. Mike

Mike, I hope you're not advertising Alex Harvey!!!

[IHgs300]

What I find really interesting about this, is that a non Gold member is not allowed to advertise, and yet almost weekly someone puts on a post saying "has anyone seen this on ebay?" or similar, thus advertising someones car! But I can't put the details of my car on here, even though I've just put mine on ebay, which I have, but you'll have to guess which one it is.....

The very reason I didn't renew my membership which was due this week. It is also interesting that not a single member of staff or moderator has bothered to at least have the good grace to acknowledge this thread exists. Mike

Colin Barber is a moderator is he not? Even though he has answered, I don't think that he is, (I know I wasn't), privy to the costs of running the site/where membership money goes.

As for the reference to "subtle pressure" from the moderators to go Gold, the mods follow site rules, which state "only GOLD members are allowed to sell on the forums"

This was made clear on joining the club (If you bothered to read the rules).

If you are not aware, the Moderators are not staff and do not receive any payment for their time.

I personally agree to having to be Gold before selling. I have been the victim of, and have seen what can happen when anyone can join a car forum and sell for free.

They can sign up and sell items they don't have only to disappear after receiving peoples money..........

Would you like that on here???????

I myself have advertised some items on here at reasonable prices for members, sometimes at a lower price than I could have got for them on e-bay because sharing with like-minded people is what the site is about..

The biggest thing gold membership gives you is being able to buy with peace of mind.

Ian (ex-mod)

[harrylime]

Ian

Talk about putting a spin on things. You're not in politics by any chance? I think most on the forum will have correctly interpreted my comment that It is the site rules that exert subtle pressure to become a paying member, not the moderators, whose time and effort is appreciated by all, I am sure. I, too, have seen the results of members being able to sell items for free on a forum. The buyer was happy, the seller was happy. Result, mutual benefit, which is what forums should be all about