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hi all

Unfortunately my cat converter from our '61 CT200h was stolen off my driveway yesterday evening. 

They took less than 3mins to do it. 

I have some questions that I would be grateful for the forum's help. Apologies in advance if these questions are covered in earlier threads.

1. is there anything I need to check/do to prevent further damage to car? So far I see the heatshield hanging down and when car is started, it sounds horrible. Can short journeys be done if no other alternative?

2. I spoke to a leading independent garage specialising in Lexus/Toyota who quoted £650 approx to fit non-Lexus cat and oxygen sensor. They note that non-lexus parts are not as in demand by the criminals as the Lexus converter. Does the forum agree?

They assure me this part confirms to European standards and made in the UK by a large manufacturer of cat converters. Would this repair/replacement be covered by most insurers?

A cat lock security plate would have be sourced from Lexus and cost £250 extra. Is this worth having if the non-Lexus converter is fitted.

3. The local Lexus dealer is quoting £1250 for replacing with Lexus parts and a further £250 to fit cat lock security plate. What are the benefits of the dealer route versus the non-Lexus part from independent garage?

4. I have heard that steel cable can be wrapped around cat converter for anti-theft - has anyone had this fitted?

Thank you

Jerry

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Sorry to hear this has happened to you. I’d suggest tying up anything hanging onto the ground and don’t drive it further than the recovery truck. This is what insurance is for really even though it will likely put the renewal cost up a little for a few years.

I’d go the official route myself, until they chop it off would they stop and check if it is an oem part?

Lexus posted a bit on this issue a while back: https://blog.lexus.co.uk/catalytic-converter-theft

There are some threads on here about the cat lock with more detail on that. Sadly it is probably like other burglaries, now the scumbags know where your car is they might try again. You might also consider a security doorbell/camera that covers your drive as a deterrent. 

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Hi Jerry, sorry to hear about your cat theft. 

This has been discussed in quite some depth on this forum.

See this thread here for lots more info:

https://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/121976-urgent/

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7 hours ago, JerryJerry said:

Can short journeys be done if no other alternative?

You really shouldn't do that. You have the risk (however small) of carbon monoxide poisoning if exhaust gases aren't exiting the vehicle safely and get into the cabin.

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Hi Jerry,

I would go with Lexus, I have their catloc fitted, not sure about the other alternatives but haven't heard any reports of a catloc fitted car being targeted.

The reason hybrids are a preferred target is the cleanliness of the cat due to spending less time on petrol.

Lexus are saying later vehicles are now being produced with less of the valuable materials in the Cat. This should make them less desirable, of course it will take time for the thieves to catch on to that fact and still leave the older models vulnerable.

Not just Lexus though most cars  are targeted if the opportunity is right. 

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I've been thinking about a catloc as I'm reading more about these being stolen but someone on another forum I use had theirs stolen off a Prius with a catloc fitted. It's the 3rd time they've done it too. So I'm wondering if it would actually make much difference having it fitted. Maybe the Prius one isn't as well designed as the CT version.

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3 minutes ago, -Rich- said:

I've been thinking about a catloc as I'm reading more about these being stolen but someone on another forum I use had theirs stolen off a Prius with a catloc fitted. It's the 3rd time they've done it too. So I'm wondering if it would actually make much difference having it fitted. Maybe the Prius one isn't as well designed as the CT version.

What is the view of the Prius owner Rich ?

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This is becoming a bit of an epidemic now (during another epidemic! ) 

😒

Had I'd not been a member if this forum I'd never have known about this risk. Is it only Hybrid cats that are the target then? 

 

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I'm somewhat disappointed that Toyota/Lexus haven't recalled their vehicles to have a Catlock fitted to all older hybrids. I know this ordinarily applies to safety related matters but it is now expected that each owner need to shell out approx £300 to have a lock fitted which may or may not work, judging by the stories I am reading of thieves still removing the cat with a lock in place. Where there's a will, there's a way. 

Hearing such stories of repeat thefts, hiked insurance (and some no longer being insurable) and therefore affected values (reduced demand) I'm seriously wondering about selling mine now. 

I know this whole issue isn't Toyota/Lexus's fault but some aid/empathy from the manufacturer would be appreciated. 

I park my car on my drive that has a slight incline towards my garage door. Would it a slight deterrant to park reversed in with the rear bumper up close to the garage door to prevent access from there, or do the thieves can access from the side? Thanks

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Hi,

39 minutes ago, MadJam250 said:

or do the thieves can access from the side?

For the Prius, Auris etc., and I am quite certain the CT too, the usual access is from either side of the car (neither side is easier than the other), but, although not the preferred route, the cat. can be removed simply through jacking up the front of the car  But then scumbag/filth/lowlife has to crawl further underneath the car, so as to gain access to the two 'critical' areas that have to be unbolted (the manifold joint), and cut (between the 1st and 2nd resonator/exhaust silencer box).  So, preventing access to the rear of the car will not do anything to hinder them - it's all about the side area under the front doors and front of the car.

Parking nose in, or sandwiched between two other parked cars is the best bet, if you can do it!  Or parking on soft ground so their trolley jack sinks.

Just as background, I don't own a CT200h, or any other Lexus for that matter. But we very nearly bought a couple of CT200h in the past, and many years ago I almost bought an LS430 and some others.  I browse this forum from time to time just out of interest to see 'what's what'.

We currently have two hybrid Aurises (and a 20 year old Corolla!) in the household, these Aurises have a great deal of commonality in the engine and exhaust system of the CT200h, as Im sure you know.  I have spent a while looking at this cat. theft problem, discussing it with a local scrap metal merchant (who detests the whole theft situation, and is entirely trustworthy!), and helping a local owner try to get his cat-stolen Prius sorted out.

HTH.

 

 

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On 1/8/2021 at 10:51 AM, JerryJerry said:

2. I spoke to a leading independent garage specialising in Lexus/Toyota who quoted £650 approx to fit non-Lexus cat and oxygen sensor. They note that non-lexus parts are not as in demand by the criminals as the Lexus converter. Does the forum agree?

Hi,

I can't back this up with any links etc., but on forums I have read, just a few Prius owners who have had non-OEM cats fitted have subsequently suffered slightly lower mpg, or less frequently, engine management lights intermittently coming on.  Sometimes these owners have gone the non-OEM route through cost, sometimes because the Toyota parts are only available on a lead time of several months or more.  There may be many happy aftermarket cat. owners, but they don't post on forums.

There does seem to be a consensus on other forums (originating from where?  I'm not sure) that thieves are less interested in aftermarket catalysts.

As far as I can see, this problem is happening in the UK, Eire and the USA, but I never see any mention of it on a forum visited that is based in mainland Europe. except just once, on a Prius gen2, in Marseille.

On 1/8/2021 at 10:51 AM, JerryJerry said:

The local Lexus dealer is quoting £1250 for replacing with Lexus parts and a further £250 to fit cat lock security plate.

Believe it or not, those prices have likely been reduced in the last couple of years, and are probably offered "with no profit" going to Toyota GB/Lexus according to Toyota GB.  That is certainly the case for those parts and services in the Toyota 'world'.  The genuine cat. exhaust part for an Auris (and the same for a Prius) has come down over the last two years as part of Toyota's response to the problem.  The current prices for those parts is around a half to three-fifths what it was before. 

Your price for the CT repair is broadly in line with those prices.  The Catloc price for your CT from the dealer is exactly the same as the 'fixed price' (which some main agents do not adhere to, note!) for any Catloc supplied and fitted to Prius gen 2, gen 3, and Auris gen1 and gen2.  So none of the usual uplift on prices for Lexus owners.

You probably know, the 'Catloc' from Lexus/Toyota is a brand name of a specific product, there are plenty of much simpler products on eBay which are similarly named, but with 'Catlok' or similar as a generic description for a protective plate.

HTH

Sadly, I think that all these security measures can, ultimately, be defeated given enough time - you are relying on these scumbags deciding that they can get easier pickings somewhere else.  Somebody with a cordless saw or angle grinder with a decent quality blade can cut through steel quite easily, eventually.  And on the CT200/Prius/Auris the exhaust is quite accessible to them.

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On 1/11/2021 at 10:55 AM, MadJam250 said:

Had I'd not been a member if this forum I'd never have known about this risk. Is it only Hybrid cats that are the target then? 

No, but being a bit thick, the thieves seem to think that because the petrol engine in a hybrid doesn't run all the time, the cat will be in better condition than those of non-hybrid cars.

Cats can be damaged or poisoned by engine faults but leaving things like that aside, a cat is a cat is a cat. Going back to my chemistry lessons at school more than 40 years ago, a catalyst takes part in a reaction but is not changed or affected in any way by that reaction which should, in theory at least, mean that whether the cat is brand new or 20 years old, and whether it comes from a hybrid or a conventional car, the precious metals within it should be as good as the day it left the factory.

Having said that, I don't know if the precious metals can suffer from any other form of degradation or age-related problems but my understanding is that they don't - I just wish the scrotes knew that and would start going for cars other than hybrids.

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I own a 2015 Prius Plugin & in anticipation of the potential of theft, I installed a vented plated which fixed to the subframe for a reasonable £85 supply & fit in London E10 area

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My retired neighbour who lives down my road has a 63 plate CT and a few nights ago a black Audi A3 (S3 or RS3) with 3 guys, pulled up and jacked up his car. Alarm was blaring hence I had a look outside to see whats going on. My neighbour heard the alarm and called the police, and he was shouting at the 3 guys but it didn't deter them. In fact the one that was keeping watch armed with a hammer, according to him spoke in a eastern european accent and told him to back off while his accomplices cut the cat off. All done in sub 2 mins by the time I was STILL asking for the rozzers via 999 🥺 Really feel for my neighbour didn't have recovery so I used my Lexus roadside assist to help him get the motor recovered to the dealer. Its like the wild west out there! they aren't "afraid" of anything these days.

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22 hours ago, Herbie said:

No, but being a bit thick, the thieves seem to think that because the petrol engine in a hybrid doesn't run all the time, the cat will be in better condition than those of non-hybrid cars.

Cats can be damaged or poisoned by engine faults but leaving things like that aside, a cat is a cat is a cat. Going back to my chemistry lessons at school more than 40 years ago, a catalyst takes part in a reaction but is not changed or affected in any way by that reaction which should, in theory at least, mean that whether the cat is brand new or 20 years old, and whether it comes from a hybrid or a conventional car, the precious metals within it should be as good as the day it left the factory.

Having said that, I don't know if the precious metals can suffer from any other form of degradation or age-related problems but my understanding is that they don't - I just wish the scrotes knew that and would start going for cars other than hybrids.

Or none at all, obviously

This is seriously concerning. 

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3 hours ago, Andrew888 said:

My retired neighbour who lives down my road has a 63 plate CT and a few nights ago a black Audi A3 (S3 or RS3) with 3 guys, pulled up and jacked up his car. Alarm was blaring hence I had a look outside to see whats going on. My neighbour heard the alarm and called the police, and he was shouting at the 3 guys but it didn't deter them. In fact the one that was keeping watch armed with a hammer, according to him spoke in a eastern european accent and told him to back off while his accomplices cut the cat off. All done in sub 2 mins by the time I was STILL asking for the rozzers via 999 🥺 Really feel for my neighbour didn't have recovery so I used my Lexus roadside assist to help him get the motor recovered to the dealer. Its like the wild west out there! they aren't "afraid" of anything these days.

rule .303 needs to be applied !.................

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On 1/15/2021 at 8:49 AM, MadJam250 said:

I'm somewhat disappointed that Toyota/Lexus haven't recalled their vehicles to have a Catlock fitted to all older hybrids. I know this ordinarily applies to safety related matters but it is now expected that each owner need to shell out approx £300 to have a lock fitted which may or may not work, judging by the stories I am reading of thieves still removing the cat with a lock in place. Where there's a will, there's a way. 

Hearing such stories of repeat thefts, hiked insurance (and some no longer being insurable) and therefore affected values (reduced demand) I'm seriously wondering about selling mine now. 

I know this whole issue isn't Toyota/Lexus's fault but some aid/empathy from the manufacturer would be appreciated. 

I park my car on my drive that has a slight incline towards my garage door. Would it a slight deterrant to park reversed in with the rear bumper up close to the garage door to prevent access from there, or do the thieves can access from the side? Thanks

Hi, by the looks of the videos I've seen it won't make much difference.  The thieves seem to carry a trolley jack in case they need to get under from the side.

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Unfortunately if you defended your own property on your own land you may still and probably would be charged with excessive force and you would be the one incarcerated .  

If on the other hand the sub species that go round stealing like this were to be met with superior force  on a few occasions , they might think twice about going down that route ..............

I believe in the rule of law and do not condone  violence , but do believe in the right to protect yourself and your property ................ 

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26 minutes ago, nicnac said:

I believe in the rule of law and do not condone  violence , but do believe in the right to protect yourself and your property

The problem is that there has been no respect for the law or anything/anyone for so long now that it's just a way of life to some people. One of the cat theft videos on YouTube shows the 'lookout' stood in broad daylight, quite openly and brazenly holding a machete while his mate jacks up the car. Two minutes later, they're off and gone.

I'm 63 and of an age/upbringing where if a police officer even looks in my direction I feel guilty. You only have to watch a couple of episodes of something like Police Interceptors or Road Wars to see just how little respect remains and how people openly treat the police with contempt.

I'm afraid that the only way to be sure of not being a victim of cat theft is to buy an electric car because they don't have cats - otherwise, any car/cat is fair game to the scrotes of this world.

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