How to negotiate with current long delivery times?

[Roger Bill]

I'm hoping to get a short test drive in MY2023 UX as soon as they arrive in the UK and, if that goes well, place an order. It'll be a cash purchase with my current car taken in part exchange.

With previous car purchases I struck a deal using best price data from sources such as Broadspeed and What Car magazine for the new car and Parkers Price Guide for the trade in value of the old. I've always found local Lexus, Mercedes and Honda main agents willing to match these prices, but that was when delivery times were no longer than a month or two.

With the current long delivery times for the UX will this approach still work in negotiations? Or is it no longer possible to fix a deal because of all the uncertainties of inflation and currency exchange rates over an extended delivery time?

[Tel]

Today is abnormal in Business transactions so expect the 2023 price to rise but the 2022 value to be good too.

Check the value of your current car on WBAC & then add 1k. & shop around Lexus Dealers.

Tel

[Harrier Man]

Suggest checking several Internet buyers, not just WBAC, I found a nearly £3k difference between best and worst. On one thread, somebody said they went with Arnold Clark because they offered a good price, only to find they offered £1,000 less on the day. Heard this before too but, of course, to be fair, an accurate description of the condition needs to be given at the outset.

There was, and probably still is, info on the website saying order today but if prices rises before delivery, you will be invited to pay the extra (or cancel the order). You should benefit from any model specification upgrades so, personally, I don't think it's an unreasonable approach in the current climate.

[Dippo]

I would use Carwow to see what deals you can get. I also wouldn't buy cash - take the car on PCP with a £2,000 contribution from Lexus, and settle as soon as you like; you can pay as little as around £200 in interest charges, so it's an effective net £1,800 off.

[KingHal]

I agree that being a cash buyer won’t get you a better price (I’ve just been through all this). Ian above is bang on the money (excuse the pun) with his advice. 
 

Anyone with an interest in landing an order will tell you that delivery will be November to January. Everyone else will forecast a delivery date of April to June. And, yes, you are obliged to pay the price as at delivery date, not order date. 

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, KingHal said:

And, yes, you are obliged to pay the price as at delivery date, not order date. 

Are you certain about this last statement? If one signs an order and pays a deposit doesn't that set the price you pay, irrespective of how long it takes to deliver? Otherwise less than scrupulous traders could just delay the delivery to their advantage. 

What may change due to delivery delays is the cost of VED,  which is determined by the list price in force on the date of first registering the car, which obviously would be once it reaches the dealership.

[RXtoNX]

Below is a copy & paste of my post in the NX section of the forum.
Note that this relates to the NX where discounts and deposit contributions are hard to come by. Will the £2000 deposit contribution on a UX also apply to the 2023 model?

Some dealers are reluctant to discount the NX but if you have a p/x you should focus on the cost to change amount & not the purchase price of the new car.

When  I was negotiating my deal early in the year, after being offered a pretty decent price for my p/x, I was asked what was needed to clinch the sale. I said, a little tongue in cheek at the time, £1500 more on the p/x and 2 years free servicing since free servicing has a value to me for very little cost to the dealership. After a 5 minute discussion between the salesperson and his manager, the manager came to me and said “I can’t stretch to a further £1500 on your p/x but if I gave you an extra £1000 and 3 years free servicing would that be acceptable?”

Value to me was almost the same so I agreed

They also fixed the price of the new vehicle and value of the p/x, although I understand that recently Lexus have stated the they will no longer support dealers on new car prices and the price will be that which prevails at the time of delivery. You can only ask & negotiate from there.

[Roger Bill]

Thanks @RXtoNX that's useful info. The Lexus document I got dated March 2022 stated "we will apply price protection against inflationary price increases. We will not price protect the specification increases" I feared that this sort of undertaking may no longer be given with the current extended delivery times and higher inflation.

The What Car magazine website is currently indicating a cash price target of £3,340 saving on the £45,500 RRP for the Takumi UX. Come the time I'll enquire about PCP deals but my experience to date is that I've always got a better deal paying cash.

[RXtoNX]

Don’t rule out PCP, it may well work out that you can get a good discount and a PCP contribution. I managed this when I bought my RX 5 years ago.
I then settled the PCP contract a week after making the first monthly payment. Finance companies are no longer allowed to charge any early settlement penalties, they can only charge the interest that applies to the length of term any loan has been live.

The last 4 new cars that have been bought in our household have been purchased this way

[Joseph Bill]

Sorry but I am not replying to the topic but to your name, hello Roger Bill it is nice to know you. My name is Joseph Bill. Not a common name is it

[Joseph Bill]

Sorry but I have never met anyone else with the surname of Bill the same as myself and to cap it all off on the Lexus site

[royoftherovers]

19 minutes ago, Joseph Bill said:

Sorry but I have never met anyone else with the surname of Bill the same as myself and to cap it all off on the Lexus site

I used to work with a guy in the 70`s whose name was  Ken Bill with Unilever on the Wirral.

[royoftherovers]

24 minutes ago, Joseph Bill said:

Sorry but I am not replying to the topic but to your name, hello Roger Bill it is nice to know you. My name is Joseph Bill. Not a common name is it

Too many Bills can lead to a cash flow problem lads !

[Roger Bill]

Thanks @RXtoNX I'll certainly enquire about the PCP alternative to see how it stacks up. In fact based on my recent experiences it's hard not to as the salesmen are clearly incentivised to sell PCP, GAP insurance, paint protection, etc. 😊😊

@Joseph Bill @royoftherovers Sorry to have caused confusion but my name isn't Bill it's simply that I don't like to use my real name when posting on open forums.

[Navnan2]

I took out the PCP for four years with my 2020 purchase, it seems a reasonable monthly payment. I was surprised when after only 1 year 3 months the dealership contacted me to see if I would like to replace it on the same terms. Expecting to pick up the replacement in November just shy of two years with the current vehicle. I guess they want to keep me on these payments for longer and there is a good market for low mileage quite new used vehicles. 

[rayaans]

Essentially - you can still negotiate but the deals are pretty mediocre compared to previous years. VAG appear to honour the price on order. Lexus unfortunately do not. 

If you can, hold on and get a car in 1-2 years time. With rising inflation amongst other costs, there's only one way deals will be going in the future.

[Roger Bill]

Good advice, thanks @rayaans but unfortunately my gut feeling is that my current car would require some expensive repairs in that timeframe. 

[Roger Bill]

Interesting UK car sales data: https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/ and in the attached. Year to date Lexus sales are down 38% on the same period last year. Unless that decline is due to supply constraints, it might suggest dealers will be willing to offer some reasonable discounts.

Lexus-Sales-Report-February-2022.pdf

[Roger Bill]

Also interesting in the context of price negotiations is the fact that the pound has done surprisingly well again the Yen over the past couple of years, as shown in this graph. Inflation in Japan is low and they are still holding their interest rates at a really low level while the UK, USA and others are raising theirs rapidly. I'm no expert but I assume this will result in continued weakness in the Yen.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Roger Bill said:

Also interesting in the context of price negotiations is the fact that the pound has done surprisingly well again the Yen over the past couple of years, as shown in this graph. Inflation in Japan is low and they are still holding their interest rates at a really low level while the UK, USA and others are raising theirs rapidly. I'm no expert but I assume this will result in continued weakness in the Yen.

More reading for you Roger. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/08/weak-yen-most-textbook-driven-currency-move-in-30-years-monex-group.html

[Roger Bill]

8 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

More reading for you Roger. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/08/weak-yen-most-textbook-driven-currency-move-in-30-years-monex-group.html

Thanks @royoftherovers The dollar is particularly strong at present whereas if the GB pound continues it's decline of the past eight years we will be less well placed.