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Realitycheck77

Depreciation?

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Depreciation - this is what happens to most cars in the automotive industry.

What I would like to try and do is shed some light on Lexus depreciation. Some of the first Lexus models ie LS 400, GS 300 have depreciated alot as we see their prices today, and it would be an accurate comment to say this. Let's remember these models were very, very succesful but were still based on the mainframe of Toyota's.

As Toyota now is officailly the leading car manufacturer in the world and the only manufactuer to operate on a profit, "things" have considerably changed. Lexus now is a complete company of it's own and has established a niche market and has created an "exclusive" marque unlike BMW , Mercedes and Audi. Also by winning the JD power survey 6 years in a row has cemented the brands/company's quality.

Lexus with it's new and latest range of models are not flooding the market, they are only manufacturing a certain number, so they hold value. This is allready becoming evident with the GS and IS range. Just to add weight, a BMW 3 series is as common as a Ford Mondeo - no longer exclusive.

A Lexus with full Lexus service history etc, is one of the best cars to hold it's value in the automotive industry - research will tell you that!

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Lexus is a global company it its own right.

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Depreciation - this is what happens to most cars in the automotive industry.

What I would like to try and do is shed some light on Lexus depreciation. Some of the first Lexus models ie LS 400, GS 300 have depreciated alot as we see their prices today, and it would be an accurate comment to say this. Let's remember these models were very, very succesful but were still based on the mainframe of Toyota's.

As Toyota now is officailly the leading car manufacturer in the world and the only manufactuer to operate on a profit, "things" have considerably changed. Lexus now is a complete company of it's own and has established a niche market and has created an "exclusive" marque unlike BMW , Mercedes and Audi. Also by winning the JD power survey 6 years in a row has cemented the brands/company's quality.

Lexus with it's new and latest range of models are not flooding the market, they are only manufacturing a certain number, so they hold value. This is allready becoming evident with the GS and IS range. Just to add weight, a BMW 3 series is as common as a Ford Mondeo - no longer exclusive.

A Lexus with full Lexus service history etc, is one of the best cars to hold it's value in the automotive industry - research will tell you that!

Do you work for Lexus? :unsure:

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Hmmm, perhaps in the USA Lexus have cultivated a good brand image, but over here, Lexus still fail to register as a premium brand in most peoples' eyes. They even lent their cars out for free to the BBC for Spooks etc. raise the profile. Until the Lexus LS430 has the same or better residual values as a Merc S class, the brand will still suffer here.

It's usually the flagship models that set the scene for the brand. Mercedes are rollin' with the S class. :lol:

It's gonna take some time to beat Merc residuals across the range. The IS probably has the strongest chance of rock solid residuals only because it's the sportiest model.

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Hmmm, perhaps in the USA Lexus have cultivated a good brand image, but over here, Lexus still fail to register as a premium brand in most peoples' eyes. They even lent their cars out for free to the BBC for Spooks etc. raise the profile. Until the Lexus LS430 has the same or better residual values as a Merc S class, the brand will still suffer here.

It's usually the flagship models that set the scene for the brand. Mercedes are rollin' with the S class. :lol:

It's gonna take some time to beat Merc residuals across the range. The IS probably has the strongest chance of rock solid residuals only because it's the sportiest model.

Its the petrol economy I think that effects the larger cars here in the Uk.

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Its the petrol economy I think that effects the larger cars here in the Uk.

nope..maybe the perception but not the reality..

IS200 auto, GS300 auto, LS400/430 auto - all average around 25mpg in real life motoring...the LS returns fantastic economy as the aerodynamics are class leading and the engine is pretty modern..

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Its the petrol economy I think that effects the larger cars here in the Uk.

nope..maybe the perception but not the reality..

IS200 auto, GS300 auto, LS400/430 auto - all average around 25mpg in real life motoring...the LS returns fantastic economy as the aerodynamics are class leading and the engine is pretty modern..

Perception or not im certain theres an element of truth in what ive said. The LS only benfits in economy on long distant journeys and you have to travel a fair speed to get better mpg through less drag.

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Its the petrol economy I think that effects the larger cars here in the Uk.

nope..maybe the perception but not the reality..

IS200 auto, GS300 auto, LS400/430 auto - all average around 25mpg in real life motoring...the LS returns fantastic economy as the aerodynamics are class leading and the engine is pretty modern..

Perception or not im certain theres an element of truth in what ive said. The LS only benfits in economy on long distant journeys and you have to travel a fair speed to get better mpg through less drag.

i thought that when i got my Ls but its better on fuel then what you think i did about 60 miles yesterday around town in roadworks with 3 people in the car with air con on and it only used a little bit of fuel (just over half@start then just under half when finished) i was very pleased i dont know how much better they are on a long journey but i will find out on sunday as i am going up to santa pod

matt

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Depreciation - this is what happens to most cars in the automotive industry.

Lexus with it's new and latest range of models are not flooding the market, they are only manufacturing a certain number, so they hold value. This is allready becoming evident with the GS and IS range. Just to add weight, a BMW 3 series is as common as a Ford Mondeo - no longer exclusive.

might that be that they havent the capacity to manufacture more cars

why would they be concerned about residual values

surely selling volume is their main concern, lets face it it hasnt hurt ford, bmw, etc etc

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Depreciation - this is what happens to most cars in the automotive industry.

Lexus with it's new and latest range of models are not flooding the market, they are only manufacturing a certain number, so they hold value. This is allready becoming evident with the GS and IS range. Just to add weight, a BMW 3 series is as common as a Ford Mondeo - no longer exclusive.

might that be that they havent the capacity to manufacture more cars

why would they be concerned about residual values

surely selling volume is their main concern, lets face it it hasnt hurt ford, bmw, etc etc

not at all barrie, lexus artificially keep there imports low, to keep demand up, however the loop hole that Lexus GB use to bring in more cars around the import quota is through the tax fee and diplomatic sales route ;)

Edited by Monster-Mat

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Just a quick response, first of all I don't work for Lexus and secondly al my views are completly unbaised.

Lexus have more than enough capability to produce as many cars as they like but to keep demand up and so their cars hold value they are only manufacturing a certain number - once again I point to the exclusive.

Lexus have totallty taken over Mercedes and BMW in the US that's fact and the projected sales in Japan and Russia (for all the Russian Billionaire's who drive Mercs - and this is no joke) are set to equal if not surpass that of their competitors.

In the UK the RX range has done very well, it's a contest between the BMW X Series and the Lexus RX range with the Mercedes ML nowhere to be seen. The introduction of the Hybrid technology has helped for obvious reasons and another plus point to come out of that is the performance of the Hybrids - very good. Also the IS range old and new has done very well, and the new GS range is considered to be a class leader, with the new LS 460L it's predicted to be the best luxary car.

It's been said that Ford and BMW have had no harm done - well that's wrong they are running at a loss - with only Toyota running at a profit, who own Lexus - hence they can fund them as much as they like. Mercedes have suffered as they are now being built in South Africa so their build quality has suffered.

The bottom line is the German dominance has been broken - and Lexus are doing it in a special way.

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Lexus have totallty taken over Mercedes and BMW in the US that's fact and the projected sales in Japan and Russia (for all the Russian Billionaire's who drive Mercs - and this is no joke) are set to equal if not surpass that of their competitors.

The bottom line is the German dominance has been broken - and Lexus are doing it in a special way.

Not totally broken, in Europe the Lexus brand is pretty much lacklustre, even in the UK. Despite being good cars, the brand is struggling to compete on pure heritage, which is why it does well in the New WOrld (USA, canada, and emerging markets). FOr snobs in Europe who value heritage and class above everything else, Lexus will still be an inferior product.

I'll be impressed if Lexus managed to sell cars bigtime in Germany - now that would be a real achievement.

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Lexus have totallty taken over Mercedes and BMW in the US that's fact and the projected sales in Japan and Russia (for all the Russian Billionaire's who drive Mercs - and this is no joke) are set to equal if not surpass that of their competitors.

The bottom line is the German dominance has been broken - and Lexus are doing it in a special way.

Not totally broken, in Europe the Lexus brand is pretty much lacklustre, even in the UK. Despite being good cars, the brand is struggling to compete on pure heritage, which is why it does well in the New WOrld (USA, canada, and emerging markets). FOr snobs in Europe who value heritage and class above everything else, Lexus will still be an inferior product.

I'll be impressed if Lexus managed to sell cars bigtime in Germany - now that would be a real achievement.

Their doing very well with everything you mentioned considering they have been established for only 15+ years - woudn't you agree?

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The Germain market will be a toughy one to break anyway, there very much in the thinking home products are superior.

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The Germain market will be a toughy one to break anyway, there very much in the thinking home products are superior.

The new GS 430 and 430h has already one awards in Germany - they believe this model to be a genuine class leader and it's potential to hold it's value is one of the best, as Lexus are only making a certain number.

I've also heard from a reliable source that Lexus are opening a manufacturing plant in East Germany. We must remember Lexus are only 15+ years old and already have established many accolades and prestige - they will only get better one assumes.

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The Germain market will be a toughy one to break anyway, there very much in the thinking home products are superior.

The new GS 430 and 430h has already one awards in Germany - they believe this model to be a genuine class leader and it's potential to hold it's value is one of the best, as Lexus are only making a certain number.

I've also heard from a reliable source that Lexus are opening a manufacturing plant in East Germany. We must remember Lexus are only 15+ years old and already have established many accolades and prestige - they will only get better one assumes.

Awards don't mean diddly squat..The IS200 has come top of JD power survey for a few years, yet you don't see a queue of people lining up outside every dealership eager to buy an IS, leading to 12 month waiting lists?

Lexus will have made it when you turn up in a Lex, and everyone thinks nice car, rather than Jap rubbish, poor man's merc, posh Toyota etc. etc.

Lexus need to get some serious performance versions like Merc's AMG/Audi's RS/BMW M powered and Jaguar R models, if they want to lift the image. Despite the fact that Lexus are nice cars, they are still viewed as an old man's car..

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Yeah, maneesh has a fair point. despite the cars being second to none in terms of reliability and refinement, they need some serious speed machines.

Lexus will be introduced to F1 in 2008, lets see what happens...... :winky:

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Depreciation - this is what happens to most cars in the automotive industry.

What I would like to try and do is shed some light on Lexus depreciation. Some of the first Lexus models ie LS 400, GS 300 have depreciated alot as we see their prices today, and it would be an accurate comment to say this. Let's remember these models were very, very succesful but were still based on the mainframe of Toyota's.

As Toyota now is officailly the leading car manufacturer in the world and the only manufactuer to operate on a profit, "things" have considerably changed. Lexus now is a complete company of it's own and has established a niche market and has created an "exclusive" marque unlike BMW , Mercedes and Audi. Also by winning the JD power survey 6 years in a row has cemented the brands/company's quality.

Lexus with it's new and latest range of models are not flooding the market, they are only manufacturing a certain number, so they hold value. This is allready becoming evident with the GS and IS range. Just to add weight, a BMW 3 series is as common as a Ford Mondeo - no longer exclusive.

A Lexus with full Lexus service history etc, is one of the best cars to hold it's value in the automotive industry - research will tell you that!

Couple of points:

The Lexus LS400 was in no way based on the platform of any Toyota - it was a completely new product with its own engineering team - that was the whole point of it.

Toyota is not yet the number 1 manufacturer in the world and certainly not the only one operating at a profit. I think the Quandt family who own most of BMW would disagree with you.

How is Lexus more exclusive than BMW and Mercedes that are wholly independant companies with no parent company like Toyota?

There are numerous threads on here with GS430 owners complaining about horrendous depreciation. It doesn't take much research to find that out.

Your later comment about Lexus being built in East Germany as a positive (actually it will be China first) doesn't square with your derogatory comments about SOME Mercedes being built in South Africa.

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The Germain market will be a toughy one to break anyway, there very much in the thinking home products are superior.

The new GS 430 and 430h has already one awards in Germany - they believe this model to be a genuine class leader and it's potential to hold it's value is one of the best, as Lexus are only making a certain number.

I've also heard from a reliable source that Lexus are opening a manufacturing plant in East Germany. We must remember Lexus are only 15+ years old and already have established many accolades and prestige - they will only get better one assumes.

Awards don't mean diddly squat..The IS200 has come top of JD power survey for a few years, yet you don't see a queue of people lining up outside every dealership eager to buy an IS, leading to 12 month waiting lists?

Lexus will have made it when you turn up in a Lex, and everyone thinks nice car, rather than Jap rubbish, poor man's merc, posh Toyota etc. etc.

Lexus need to get some serious performance versions like Merc's AMG/Audi's RS/BMW M powered and Jaguar R models, if they want to lift the image. Despite the fact that Lexus are nice cars, they are still viewed as an old man's car..

Ok- IS 250 waiting list is over 12 months long - I know as the Sales Manager at the company I work is buying one - performane models - will be introduced in the form of IS 500 and I can assure you no one thinks poor mans Merc, as my uncle is trading in his Merc S Class for a LS 460 L when the are released and if you see the amount of Merc owners who have put deposits down for the new LS you will see what I mean. Also IS 350 is not bad in terms of performance and should be available on import in the next 1- 2 years.

And old mans car, that's not true - the IS 200 Sport changed that - as many of the BMW 3 series owners went for an IS as opposed to a 3 series, many young people.

Depreciation - this is what happens to most cars in the automotive industry.

What I would like to try and do is shed some light on Lexus depreciation. Some of the first Lexus models ie LS 400, GS 300 have depreciated alot as we see their prices today, and it would be an accurate comment to say this. Let's remember these models were very, very succesful but were still based on the mainframe of Toyota's.

As Toyota now is officailly the leading car manufacturer in the world and the only manufactuer to operate on a profit, "things" have considerably changed. Lexus now is a complete company of it's own and has established a niche market and has created an "exclusive" marque unlike BMW , Mercedes and Audi. Also by winning the JD power survey 6 years in a row has cemented the brands/company's quality.

Lexus with it's new and latest range of models are not flooding the market, they are only manufacturing a certain number, so they hold value. This is allready becoming evident with the GS and IS range. Just to add weight, a BMW 3 series is as common as a Ford Mondeo - no longer exclusive.

A Lexus with full Lexus service history etc, is one of the best cars to hold it's value in the automotive industry - research will tell you that!

Couple of points:

The Lexus LS400 was in no way based on the platform of any Toyota - it was a completely new product with its own engineering team - that was the whole point of it.

Toyota is not yet the number 1 manufacturer in the world and certainly not the only one operating at a profit. I think the Quandt family who own most of BMW would disagree with you.

How is Lexus more exclusive than BMW and Mercedes that are wholly independant companies with no parent company like Toyota?

There are numerous threads on here with GS430 owners complaining about horrendous depreciation. It doesn't take much research to find that out.

Your later comment about Lexus being built in East Germany as a positive (actually it will be China first) doesn't square with your derogatory comments about SOME Mercedes being built in South Africa.

The Lexus brand is more exclusive, just likes Bentley and Rolls Royce and what I meant was they are opening main distribution centre in Germany and China - as they don't want build quality to suffer - and i wasn't being derogatory I was just stating what I've been reading and hearing that the Mercs build quality has suffered because they are being built outside outside of germany, so they can make more of a profit when the cars are sold - production costs less eleswhere.

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It's a mixed picture though. When people know I've got a Lexus they grimace and call me a flash g*t. When they see the car they think I'm trying to keep a low profile by claiming its worth about £4-5K. There's a fair amount of perception involved and I think Lex have quite a high calibre rating even if they're not quite in exclusive territory, although I'd be interested to know a definition for exclusive.

Merc can make savings by manufacturing abroad, but if Lexus are holding back on quantities sold maybe they could make their own savings by getting rid of their current advertising campaigns?

One point I'd like to make is that Lexus have not operated through an economic downturn/ recession/ stockmarket crash/property market crash etc. They've only traded in a comparitive upswing (with stuttering undertones). When they do have to weather the storm lets see how their standards bear up under competitive pressure, because they will have to get down and dirty with the best of them. They would prob get bailed out by Toyota in practise, but it would be interesting to see if they'd allow their rep to get tarnished by rebadging a big Kia or opening a plant in China where alot of future sales are going to happen.

All devils advocate stuff - bored at lunch-time

cheers

Paul

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It's a mixed picture though. When people know I've got a Lexus they grimace and call me a flash g*t. When they see the car they think I'm trying to keep a low profile by claiming its worth about £4-5K.

Yeah, and it's usually the people who pay 11k for a brand new Fiesta who say that!!!! Lexus is just amazingly good value used for the private buyer, but usually looks like a very expensive car..

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After yet more research - I can tell you that Merc, BMW and Audi don't have cars designed to be chauffer driven where as Bentley and Rolls Royce do - the S-Class comes very close but doesn't really qualify. Lexus now have the LS 460L and LS 600hL which are designed to be chauffer driven for the very, very rich.

Can you see where I'm coming from?

Also Lexus are going to start a scheme where they will buy cars back from customers (if they wish to sell or trade of course) for a higher price than in the past - this is another effort to make a fully serviced etc Lexus car to be one of the best cars to hold value - a very good idea I feel.

So private sales will go up aswell.

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After yet more research - I can tell you that Merc, BMW and Audi don't have cars designed to be chauffer driven where as Bentley and Rolls Royce do - the S-Class comes very close but doesn't really qualify. Lexus now have the LS 460L and LS 600hL which are designed to be chauffer driven for the very, very rich.

Can you see where I'm coming from?

So the zillions of Merc S classes with blacked out windows chauffering celebrities, diplomats, and other wealthy folk, that I see every day in central London are figments of my imagination?

And the actual chauffeur companies in London who make a big sales pitch about having S classes are just pretending are they?

http://www.ichauffeur.co.uk/cars/mercedes-benz/s-class/

http://www.le-tour.co.uk/pages/sclass.htm

http://www.parkersexeculink.com/index.cfm?...&modelid=37

So, which division of Lexus GB do you work in? What is the source of your research? :shifty:

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