Disaster

[Rob's Lexx]

i see that cho did not publish the full email... only a sected section of it..... tdi have offered him a free block also.

Thats very good of Mark + tdi team :D i wonder what the cost is for uprated engine at cost ??

His last Quote was somewhere near 10k for the uprated is200 engine

i heard that too....

[Ellz]

i see that cho did not publish the full email... only a sected section of it..... tdi have offered him a free block also.

Thats very good of Mark + tdi team :D i wonder what the cost is for uprated engine at cost ??

His last Quote was somewhere near 10k for the uprated is200 engine

i heard that too....

Doesnt "at cost price" mean just the parts ??? or is this me being silly

[Dave-Ellen]

can mean that or can mean labour at cost as well i.e whatever the company pays the employee plus on costs like NI & Tax

[sparkystav]

Doesnt "at cost price" mean just the parts ??? or is this me being silly

No its means so he doesnt make any profit.

Stav

[boddamloon]

Doesnt "at cost price" mean just the parts ??? or is this me being silly

No its means so he doesnt make any profit.

Stav

Correct.But Garage ,rates,tools, wages, lighting etc could all be part of it

[Ellz]

Doesnt "at cost price" mean just the parts ??? or is this me being silly

No its means so he doesnt make any profit.

Stav

Ahhh so just parts and then what ever he pays the mechanic. Then could be the rest that boddamloon said. Would be ALOT cheaper than usual though

[boddamloon]

Depends how much profit is usually made

[Tony-Bones]

i see that cho did not publish the full email... only a sected section of it..... tdi have offered him a free block also.

Indeed..... I think most would agree an email or pm is intended to be personal... If one is going to violate this then at least be polite enough to post the entire conversation.

Additionally TDi have posted in wim and explain their side of the situation to cho.... I think it's very unfair of cho to argue his side of the situation to LOC without allowing members to see TDi's proactive replies.

It's also disappointing that cho has an entirely different attitude in wim whilst posting with TDi.

[boddamloon]

I do agree with too i dont know why Cho decided to do this?

[Gord]

I do agree with too i dont know why Cho decided to do this?

Cho is not very happy, he payed over 5k and his engine packed up.

He was told he was going to get the data, he has not.

He was told when he collected his car is was finished, it was not.

He is taking it out on Tdi, right or wrong, he feels thay are to blame for what happend.

He needs to move on, get the car running, see what the problems are with the car, eng/man/light, and what boost he is running.

Then and only then can he point the finger, find the problem 1st, then sort it out, he might not even have a problem, it might just of been a weak rod.

I to have seen what Tdi have put, and to say bad mapping didn't make any conrod snap is rubbish.

Eg, of bad mapping.....

I have seen with my own eyes Raj car, that was mapped very badly, it was putting to much fuel into the engine, some of the unburnt fuel was passing the pistons and getting into the engine oil, not very good for your engine at all. the oil was changed, so Raj could drive the car back to tdi to sort again, even after being told it was finished, now if that oil had not been changed, what do you think would have happend to the engine ? and who would of been at fault/blame ? It a good just Raj did what he did in the end or his engine might have been the same as Cho's.

And yes Raj had the eng/man/lighs on just like cho's car has.

[Dave-Ellen]

I do agree with too i dont know why Cho decided to do this?

I've read the bit that Cho did not post on WIM and can't see what else it adds TBH

There is no mention of the free block. There is mention of FCON data.

IMHO the thing that got Cho is that there is no data available from the mapping session which TBH beggars belief from a company which considers itself the leading tuner of Japanese cars in the UK.

What people may forget is someone who has spent a large sum of money on his pride and joy for it to go bang is entitled to get a bit pee'd off.

For the record I know of another car fitted with a TDi bigger pulley which went pop after a few miles (being test driven actually) the part was supply only and fitted by the garage in question not tdi-plc

[Monster-Mat]

i think there is far to much personal opinion in this topic than fact.

everyone is pointig the finger at TDI as fault, when nothing has been proved.

as far as i read it, the mapping data is available but in paper format, im also under the impression that the unlock code and other information regarding the fcon is available.

rather than...as usual everyone jumping to conclusions and feeding negativity to cho, allow him to deal with this issue in a private and professional manner, and if anyone is found at fault, then make it public, if whoever is at fault doesn't assist cho, then go public.

it seems very convenient that knowing TDI are not on these forums, that the same people are the ones pushing for a head on a platter.

i remember when another member on this forum had nothing but trouble from his car, he was made to look like the person making storys up....so much so his car still doesnt work......and he is getting no help!

this issue is between cho, tdi and no one else at this moment.

if you have something to positively bring to this discussion do so, put up or if not.......shut up

[Steve]

well said mate!

[Chris.S]

Thats very good of Mark + tdi team :D i wonder what the cost is for uprated engine at cost ??

His last Quote was somewhere near 10k for the uprated is200 engine

That not far off on price to be honest, it cost 7k to replace my standard engine 3 years ago and thats the price Lexus paid not the full retail price

[aztecbandit1]

think i'd just buy another lex at those prices?

[Dave-Ellen]

i think there is far to much personal opinion in this topic than fact.

everyone is pointig the finger at TDI as fault, when nothing has been proved.

as far as i read it, the mapping data is available but in paper format, im also under the impression that the unlock code and other information regarding the fcon is available.

rather than...as usual everyone jumping to conclusions and feeding negativity to cho, allow him to deal with this issue in a private and professional manner, and if anyone is found at fault, then make it public, if whoever is at fault doesn't assist cho, then go public.

it seems very convenient that knowing TDI are not on these forums, that the same people are the ones pushing for a head on a platter.

i remember when another member on this forum had nothing but trouble from his car, he was made to look like the person making storys up....so much so his car still doesnt work......and he is getting no help!

this issue is between cho, tdi and no one else at this moment.

if you have something to positively bring to this discussion do so, put up or if not.......shut up

Regarding your comment "i remember when another member on this forum had nothing but trouble from his car, he was made to look like the person making storys up....so much so his car still doesnt work......and he is getting no help!"

If that relates to Nico Mathew then you may want to tread carefully. I say that as it was never proved that his car "didnt work" as he would not bring it back for it to be looked at. The reason being he knew I would keep hold of said car as he had not paid for the work done (still has not done so) I still believe the whole episode was an attempt to embarrass me into waiving the £2.5K he still owed....I do recall TDI being less than helpful on that thread as well

There can be no argument in this case as a rod has popped out of the crankcase for some fresh air and the customer is not happy with the response to date.

There is nothing stopping TDI posting on here as he does pop in for a look now and again.

Also comments made about fueling issues with IS200's fitted with FCON V-Pros by TDI are not fiction but fact (money even being refunded to one customer )

[chrisis200]

Happy 2 delete till the outcome good luck all :D

[Tony-Bones]

TDi are being criminalised here without defence.... Monster mat has already said keep the thread on topic regarding actual facts.... This witch hunt without evidence is wrong and i think this thread should be closed since the speculation is damaging to TDi and they have been nothing more than be honourable regarding the failure subject to an engineers report.

In the event TDi are to blame they have offered to resolve the damage knickers down........... What more can they do!!

Anyway since cho feels comfortable to post edited versions of email/pm's here in a discrediting fashion i feel it's only correct to offer the complete version posted in wim.

................................................................................

........

Posted in wim

Hello Charnjit,

If you consider it appropriate to post a private email, I think it would have been fairer to post the entire email to provide some contextural accuracy.

I hope you don't mind if I do post my email in it's entirity:

Hi Charnjit

Unfortunately we have been unable to locate the electronic dyno data so far. I suspect that either it wasn’t saved or it has been mistakenly filed under another name in which case it may take us a while to find.

We have three different methodologies available for recording boost pressure and air/fuel ratio data, and our technicians have their own preferences for doing so. The standard operating procedure we implement for recording results is a manual record, which of course we do have on file for your car.

Please find attached copy of the FCON file for your car as requested today.

I think the only real way of knowing with complete confidence whether the failure was due to deficiencies in our work, is to undertake validation testing after the engine is rebuilt. It will then be very easy to determine the air/fuel ratio and the boost pressure. It will also be easy to implement self protection procedures such as removing the supercharger pulley and unplugging the FCON etc if you think we may tamper with them prior to testing.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help.

Kind regards

Mark Catchpole

Torque Developments International PLC

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Contrary to your suggestion that TDI thinks that you are a mug, you appear to have forgotten that I have offered to give you a cylinder block for free (even if it is proven that we are not to blame for the failure), that I have provided you with advice on how you can protect yourself, that upon your request for a quote for an uprated engine that I have offered to build one at cost price, and that I personally and other TDi team members have gone to consderable lengths to be as accomodating as possible. We didn't have to do any of this, and I can assure you that you would been given considerably less sympathy at some other companies in our industry.

The facts in the case are these:

1. You signed a disclaimer accepting the risks of modifying your car.

2. We undertook the work that you requested, with reasonable care.

3. Connecting rod failure is a known issue with this engine.

4. It is not possible for a connecting rod to break as a consequence of bad ecu calibration.

5. If you have any doubt that we have done anything wrong, you should have our work checked independantly.

6. If we are proven to have done anything wrong, we will pay for it.

It seems to me that any comments from anyone who is not qualified and has not undertaken a detailed analysis of the failed engine, is of little or no value.

With kind regards

Mark Catchpole

[Dave-Ellen]

TDi are being criminalised here without defence.... Monster mat has already said keep the thread on topic regarding actual facts.... This witch hunt without evidence is wrong and i think this thread should be closed since the speculation is damaging to TDi and they have been nothing more than be honourable regarding the failure subject to an engineers report.

In the event TDi are to blame they have offered to resolve the damage knickers down........... What more can they do!!

Anyway since cho feels comfortable to post edited versions of email/pm's here in a discrediting fashion i feel it's only correct to offer the complete version posted in wim.

................................................................................

........

Posted in wim

Hello Charnjit,

If you consider it appropriate to post a private email, I think it would have been fairer to post the entire email to provide some contextural accuracy.

I hope you don't mind if I do post my email in it's entirity:

Hi Charnjit

Unfortunately we have been unable to locate the electronic dyno data so far. I suspect that either it wasn’t saved or it has been mistakenly filed under another name in which case it may take us a while to find.

We have three different methodologies available for recording boost pressure and air/fuel ratio data, and our technicians have their own preferences for doing so. The standard operating procedure we implement for recording results is a manual record, which of course we do have on file for your car.

Please find attached copy of the FCON file for your car as requested today.

I think the only real way of knowing with complete confidence whether the failure was due to deficiencies in our work, is to undertake validation testing after the engine is rebuilt. It will then be very easy to determine the air/fuel ratio and the boost pressure. It will also be easy to implement self protection procedures such as removing the supercharger pulley and unplugging the FCON etc if you think we may tamper with them prior to testing.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help.

Kind regards

Mark Catchpole

Torque Developments International PLC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contrary to your suggestion that TDI thinks that you are a mug, you appear to have forgotten that I have offered to give you a cylinder block for free (even if it is proven that we are not to blame for the failure), that I have provided you with advice on how you can protect yourself, that upon your request for a quote for an uprated engine that I have offered to build one at cost price, and that I personally and other TDi team members have gone to consderable lengths to be as accomodating as possible. We didn't have to do any of this, and I can assure you that you would been given considerably less sympathy at some other companies in our industry.

The facts in the case are these:

1. You signed a disclaimer accepting the risks of modifying your car.

2. We undertook the work that you requested, with reasonable care.

3. Connecting rod failure is a known issue with this engine.

4. It is not possible for a connecting rod to break as a consequence of bad ecu calibration.

5. If you have any doubt that we have done anything wrong, you should have our work checked independantly.

6. If we are proven to have done anything wrong, we will pay for it.

It seems to me that any comments from anyone who is not qualified and has not undertaken a detailed analysis of the failed engine, is of little or no value.

With kind regards

Mark Catchpole

Tony...I think criminalised is a bit strong !

Regarding the 6 facts above

I still struggle to understand point 4 and wonder if there is a typo hidden there as the statement is completely wrong and misleading

I also wonder about what Cho was told when his dash started to light up like a christmas tree.....something "like don't worry its the ecu self learning" IF thats what he was told, I stress if, that beggars belief and is complete heffers dust.

I'm sure Cho will be up and running soon so can get the car remapped by TDI or another HKS powerwriter and start to enjoy using his pride and joy again.

[chrisis200]

Happy 2 delete till the outcome good luck all

Edited January 7, 2008 by chrisis200

[Dave-Ellen]

I think this fact "1. You signed a disclaimer accepting the risks of modifying your car." will be end of it even if they are found to be in wrong I can say what I like it's just my opinion. I think every1 can make there own here...

What we do know is car was fine, goes to TDI modded, flashing lights, an now car broken...

Edit

Although I will now voice that letting a car out the garage with warning lights on is asking for trouble regardless and mayb Cho shouldnt of taken it so mayb he is at fault there, but I'm glad no one was hurt when the car was damaged or I would be using the word criminal.

PS. I am no trader basher I'm just shocked at what has already been told here.

Chris in TDI's defence I believe if you read the small print on any job card when you leave your car with them (all garages) there is a disclaimer attached.

The difficulty is proving negligence which would negate the disclaimer.

In this case the difficulty for Cho is proving negligence/bad workmanship. The thing that would greatly prove/disprove that is the data logged on the dyno machine which appears to no longer be available. This is one of the things that cause most disquiet here I believe as its fine saying you will put something right if its your fault. Its another if the principle means of proving that are not "available". In plain english one could say its an empty gesture

[Tony-Bones]

Fair comment Prolex-UK....... But it's a known fact any modification is not without consequence..... Albeit using more fuel or insurance premiums...

Their disclaimer highlights this fact and allows the owner to progress or not.... Don't forget cho asked for this modification and as far as we know TDi warned the internals should have also been upgraded but cho's purse couldn't stretch to this?

Additionally if the dash lights flagged alarm bells to TDi i would assume they would have acted on this immediately!!

I just feel cho should have an independent report as suggested then gone public if TDi shy away from their promise.... At the moment it like kicking the puppy because you found a puddle on the floor..... Get your evidence then kick the puppy.

[Dave-Ellen]

Fair comment Prolex-UK....... But it's a known fact any modification is not without consequence..... Albeit using more fuel or insurance premiums...

Their disclaimer highlights this fact and allows the owner to progress or not.... Don't forget cho asked for this modification and as far as we know TDi warned the internals should have also been upgraded but cho's purse couldn't stretch to this?

Additionally if the dash lights flagged alarm bells to TDi i would assume they would have acted on this immediately!!

I just feel cho should have an independent report as suggested then gone public if TDi shy away from their promise.... At the moment it like kicking the puppy because you found a puddle on the floor..... Get your evidence then kick the puppy.

Tony... you say "as far as we know" about internal upgrades if we don't know surely we should not comment ?

Its the stage 1 upgrade which is said to be safe on std internals BTW so upgrading internals should not have been required.

BTW I concur on increased risk when modifying

Final point is that the explanation given for the flashing lights,alledgedly, by TDI was complete and utter rubbish and do not know of any tuning company.........I'm going to stop

[chrisis200]

I have stopped and deleted my comments until the outcome hope all is resolved asap. I dont' want to upset anyone or discredit TDI if they havent caused the problem that would be completely the wrong thing to do and I am sorry :)

[Gord]

I have stopped and deleted my comments until the outcome hope all is resolved asap. I dont' want to upset anyone or discredit TDI if they havent caused the problem that would be completely the wrong thing to do and I am sorry :)

Not going to be outcome Chris, Tdi have offered to pay if thay are @ fault from Report, The report will be a wast of Cho's time + money as tdi are not sending the data to Cho to help with the report.

As ive said lots of times, Cho needs to get the car running to see what sort of state its in, re-the eng/man/lights, what boost its running, This will be better than any report.