Intersting Point For You To Ponder Your Thoughts Welcomed

[fil4362]

I recently had a succesfull ppi claim against my bank. The ammount is irrelavant to the story. Anyway it was a two part claim as i had two loans over the years. The bank sent me a letter detailing the two parts and a total owed. The first part of the claim was paid direct into my bank account. Two weeks later the second part haddnt come so i phoned my bank and was told they would sort it asap. With in a few days a checque arrived which i paid into my bank and concidered the matter finished.

I have just checked my bank account and found a third payment which has gone direct into my bank which is diffrent to either of the amounts due. I have contacted my barrister friend who says legally i dont have to do anything. Its their mistake and they took it from me dis honestly in the first place so enjoy the interest but be prepared to give it back should they spot their mistake.

My question, should i contact my bank first thing wednesday morning? (being the bank holiday) or do nothing and wait for them to contact me.

Added to the story i go away on holiday thursday for a couple of weeks so the money will sit in my account for atleast 2 weeks.

I welcome your thoughts. what would you do ?

[fil4362]

yes i have just noticed i put this in the wrong place if i knew how to move it i would feel free to move it for me if you know how to do it

[steve2006]

I would follow the advice from your legal friend say nothing and wait and see, just don't spend the money.

The only thing that made me smile was "enjoy the interest" if it's anything like my current account running at 0.5% gross it won't be much.

[Rory]

I got a double wage once by mistake when I changed job role within a company, so I left it until after the tax year, nothin was ever said :) I know its not the same, but its always nice to get extra money

[bluenose1940]

I recently had a succesfull ppi claim against my bank. The ammount is irrelavant to the story. Anyway it was a two part claim as i had two loans over the years. The bank sent me a letter detailing the two parts and a total owed. The first part of the claim was paid direct into my bank account. Two weeks later the second part haddnt come so i phoned my bank and was told they would sort it asap. With in a few days a checque arrived which i paid into my bank and concidered the matter finished.

I have just checked my bank account and found a third payment which has gone direct into my bank which is diffrent to either of the amounts due. I have contacted my barrister friend who says legally i dont have to do anything. Its their mistake and they took it from me dis honestly in the first place so enjoy the interest but be prepared to give it back should they spot their mistake.

My question, should i contact my bank first thing wednesday morning? (being the bank holiday) or do nothing and wait for them to contact me.

Added to the story i go away on holiday thursday for a couple of weeks so the money will sit in my account for atleast 2 weeks.

I welcome your thoughts. what would you do ?

Do exactly what your barrister friend says and do nothing, go away and enjoy your holiday and don't even think about it. As he says, just be prepared to pay it back if they ask for it. You might just get lucky and they (your bank) won't realise that they have made a mistake. There was a case recently where a cash machine was paying out double the requested amount, word got round and a queue formed and everyone enjoyed the bonanza, there were even scuffles breaking out in the queue but the police then turned up and stopped it all. The bank then announced that they would not be asking for the money back!

Enjoy your holiday, but don't forget my stick of rock!

[The Editor]

Absolutely do nothing !

Let us not forget that it is the banks that got us into this current mess we are all in and they have shown no remorse (still paying themselve huge bonuses etc) after the sub prime lending bubble burst!

They took your money illegally in the first place and it took a high court judgement to get these highwaymen to cough up refunds.

If they ever have sufficeient joined up thinking to discover their mistake (which would surprise me because these banker people are not that bright) I would delay paying them back for as long as possible. This would include asking for a wriiten explanation as to why the mistake was made. Then write another letter and ask them why the amount differs to the other two that was paid back to you. You can think of about ten questions you want to ask them but only ever write back to them asking one question at a time! Put in writing that until you are satisfied that the money doesn't actually belong to you then you will not be paying it back any time soon.

The other alternative if it is a reasonable sum, is to put it on long term deposit/bond (at a different bank) and explain to your bank that as you are not a 'sophisticated finacial institution' like themselves you honestly thought the money was paid correctly to you and now you have tied the money up on long term deposit so they will just have to wait.

The Ed

P.S - Can you tell I don't like Banks very much :)

P.P.S - Banks don't have any money...................Only other peoples!

[BenIS]

ill agree with everyone else. do nothing, dont spend the money till a long time down the line and hope they dont ask for it back.

[fil4362]

Another interesting point as come to light now. Everyone on here has said keep it dont tell them. Which to be honest is my plan. If they ask for it they can have it back.

My "friends" on facebook all say i should return it immediatly lol.

You guys on here i dont know me and are not involved one way or another so belileve you have given an honest opinion of what you think. Is it just me or does it sound like my "friends" on facebook are a tad jellous and dont want me to have it a second longer than possible.

Just to show how much i have looked into it, My barrister has said i can legally put it in a long term now accessable i.s.a and keep it for 5 years or more. If i believe its been given to me legally then why wouldnt i put it away. The bank then would have to wait until the i.s.a matures to get their money back and i get to keep the interest. I would have course have to do through the courts and proove where the money was and that i couldnt get it back, would be real fun to put it in an i,s,a with my bank technically i have given it them back ha ha

[TigerFish]

Another interesting point as come to light now. Everyone on here has said keep it dont tell them. Which to be honest is my plan. If they ask for it they can have it back.

My "friends" on facebook all say i should return it immediatly lol.

You guys on here i dont know me and are not involved one way or another so belileve you have given an honest opinion of what you think. Is it just me or does it sound like my "friends" on facebook are a tad jellous and dont want me to have it a second longer than possible.

Just to show how much i have looked into it, My barrister has said i can legally put it in a long term now accessable i.s.a and keep it for 5 years or more. If i believe its been given to me legally then why wouldnt i put it away. The bank then would have to wait until the i.s.a matures to get their money back and i get to keep the interest. I would have course have to do through the courts and proove where the money was and that i couldnt get it back, would be real fun to put it in an i,s,a with my bank technically i have given it them back ha ha

To be brutally honest, because nobody on here knows you, none of them in reality could give a f*ck if you got done for it or not. Pleading ignorance of knowing the money was there no longer stands, as there is now a cached trail of you admitting it is not yours on facebook and LOC and probably other places too (and more importantly google and other search engines). So whilst it is probably worth risking it for a biscuit, I would be more concerned about your judicial welfare if I actually knew you.

[colinrobinson]

put it in an i,s,a with my bank technically i have given it them back ha ha

Personally I like that option, pay me my interest and you can have the capital back ...

[fil4362]

Another interesting point as come to light now. Everyone on here has said keep it dont tell them. Which to be honest is my plan. If they ask for it they can have it back. My "friends" on facebook all say i should return it immediatly lol. You guys on here i dont know me and are not involved one way or another so belileve you have given an honest opinion of what you think. Is it just me or does it sound like my "friends" on facebook are a tad jellous and dont want me to have it a second longer than possible. Just to show how much i have looked into it, My barrister has said i can legally put it in a long term now accessable i.s.a and keep it for 5 years or more. If i believe its been given to me legally then why wouldnt i put it away. The bank then would have to wait until the i.s.a matures to get their money back and i get to keep the interest. I would have course have to do through the courts and proove where the money was and that i couldnt get it back, would be real fun to put it in an i,s,a with my bank technically i have given it them back ha ha

To be brutally honest, because nobody on here knows you, none of them in reality could give a f*ck if you got done for it or not. Pleading ignorance of knowing the money was there no longer stands, as there is now a cached trail of you admitting it is not yours on facebook and LOC and probably other places too (and more importantly google and other search engines). So whilst it is probably worth risking it for a biscuit, I would be more concerned about your judicial welfare if I actually knew you.

The law is pretty set. I paid the banks money i didnt need to (ppi) when i asked for it back they made me wait for 5 months before returning it. The banks have now paid me money they didnt need to pay me so i will make them ask for it. The bank didnt contact me saying do i want my money back so why should i contact them saying do you want yours back. its pretty simple.

Yes theres a trail on facebook and here saying i have the money but it will only go to court if the banks ask for it back and i say "i dont have it" there wont be a court case,as when they ask for it they can have it so the trail of me saying i have it makes no diffrence. Even if i did put it into an isa i have sufficiant funds to cover it anyway,which is a point i mentioned to my barister who claims that wouldnt matter as my other funds were set aside for a spacific perpouse.

I did get one response from a "friend" on facebook who had 700 quid stuck in her account for no apparent reason. it just appeared. She contacted her bank straight away who asked her to draw the cash and hand it in. The week later she has 100 quid stuck in her account and was told it was compensation for her inconveniance.

Morally i should contact them first thing wednesday morning, legally according to a barister i only have to give it back when and if they ask. As long as i do return it when asked there wont be a case to answer. A court case really doesnt bother me as they cant just stand me in court as i havnt refused to return it they havnt asked me to yet. besides the cost of the court case would be much larger then the amount to recover,

[dave1]

The law is pretty set. I paid the banks money i didnt need to (ppi) when i asked for it back they made me wait for 5 months before returning it. The banks have now paid me money they didnt need to pay me so i will make them ask for it. The bank didnt contact me saying do i want my money back so why should i contact them saying do you want yours back. its pretty simple. Yes theres a trail on facebook and here saying i have the money but it will only go to court if the banks ask for it back and i say "i dont have it" there wont be a court case,as when they ask for it they can have it so the trail of me saying i have it makes no diffrence. Even if i did put it into an isa i have sufficiant funds to cover it anyway,which is a point i mentioned to my barister who claims that wouldnt matter as my other funds were set aside for a spacific perpouse. I did get one response from a "friend" on facebook who had 700 quid stuck in her account for no apparent reason. it just appeared. She contacted her bank straight away who asked her to draw the cash and hand it in. The week later she has 100 quid stuck in her account and was told it was compensation for her inconveniance. Morally i should contact them first thing wednesday morning, legally according to a barister i only have to give it back when and if they ask. As long as i do return it when asked there wont be a case to answer. A court case really doesnt bother me as they cant just stand me in court as i havnt refused to return it they havnt asked me to yet. besides the cost of the court case would be much larger then the amount to recover,

I'm afraid that your "barrister friend" appears to have mislead you on this matter. 5 years ago i was overpaid £18000 in my weekly wages by the company I worked for so I rapidly checked my position and discovered that not only was keeping the money theft but also failing to take reasonable steps to return the money was also classed as theft. Read the following and check further with your legal eagle:

the Theft (Amendment) Act 1996 updates s.24 Theft Act 1968 to say "A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect of which he has any right or interest;

(B) he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and

© he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstances to secure that the credit is cancelled. "

Read here for full details: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996...0062_en_1#l1g2

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Unfortunately keeping it, ****ting up and pleading ignorance is not gonna work if they find out.

I had the same thing as dave1. I was overpaid one month a few years ago. Instead of £2,200 they deposited £22,000! I couldn't believe it. I wanted to keep it and shut my mouth but I contacted Citizens Advice and they said the same as Dave, pay it back. If you keep it knowing it's a mistake then that's theft.

Shame really, I don't know if the situation is different as it was a bank that deposited the money and not a company with you?

[dave1]

Unfortunately keeping it, ****ting up and pleading ignorance is not gonna work if they find out. I had the same thing as dave1. I was overpaid one month a few years ago. Instead of £2,200 they deposited £22,000! I couldn't believe it. I wanted to keep it and shut my mouth but I contacted Citizens Advice and they said the same as Dave, pay it back. If you keep it knowing it's a mistake then that's theft. Shame really, I don't know if the situation is different as it was a bank that deposited the money and not a company with you?

If you read the link to the Act you will see it is irrelevant where the credit originates. I was advised to inform them which I did. They then gave me time off to go to my bank to arrange for immediate repayment........not even a thank you.

[The Editor]

I'm afraid that your "barrister friend" appears to have mislead you on this matter. 5 years ago i was overpaid £18000 in my weekly wages by the company I worked for so I rapidly checked my position and discovered that not only was keeping the money theft but also failing to take reasonable steps to return the money was also classed as theft. Read the following and check further with your legal eagle:

the Theft (Amendment) Act 1996 updates s.24 Theft Act 1968 to say "A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect of which he has any right or interest;

( B) he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and

© he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstances to secure that the credit is cancelled. "

Read here for full details: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996...0062_en_1#l1g2

In that case then, the original poster can quote the same verbiage back at the bank!! The bank took his money without his consent (the ppi premiums )and is therefore guilty of theft themselves. They knowingly took funds without permission and the op has the advantage of legal precedent on his side.

I really would not give these highwaymen (banks) the time of day and as for a cached audit trail via facespace and LOC.... comeon guys..... they REALLY aren't that clever (or they wouldn't be bankers). Also, for the sake of a few hundred or a few thousand quid, they wouldn'd go to the bother of forensic IT work, it would outweigh the cost of the litigation and damages.

Keep the damn money and let the stupid b*stards beg for it back ! At no point say you will not give it back if asked but you can have some real fun making them jump through all sorts of hoops before parting with the cash. Let us not forget, they took your money unlawfully and inconvenienced you so make damn sure you inconvenience them - SIMPLES

The Ed

[fil4362]

Thanks The Ed. dont worry abotu dave1 i dont think theres been a single post i have been involved in where he has doen anything but disagreed. As for being misled by my barister i very much doubt she or her solisiter husband would be in work if they didnt know the law.

The law is still very clear and if dave1 was correct my barister friend would be fighting my case in court against the bank for taking it from me in the first place, instead of telling me to keep hold of the money.

Just to add to the story i had a letter 2 days ago (waiting when i got back of holiday, Early as we was camping in wales and got out before the weather hit) The bank have explain the diffrent sums for the 2 lots of second payments. The diffrence in the "extra" payment and what was actually owed is "additional" compensation for dragging their feet with the claim.

So basically yes i have been sent one payment twice. Diffrent ammounts because they wanted to give me even more money.

Firstly, the bank really are not going to look me up on the internet just on the off chance i have posted something some where about the overpayment. Last time i checked theres nothing on this website that links to me, theres also nothing on facebook, that without breaching privacy laws, links to me either.

Secondy, when they ask if they have made a mistake i will check and get back to them eventually returning the fund. Unless the bank can proove infront of a judge that i had the money knew all about it and then refused to return it there wont be a court case. As i dont intend to keep it once asked for it theres no case to answer.

I think everyone can probably quote/refrance a case where the banks messed up. One recently in my area, the cash machine/hole in the wall was paying out double the amount requested. There was a queue around the block once the word got out. The police heard what was going on and stood gaurd at the machine so no one else used it. The bank, even with cctv footage and proof of who made what withdrawl at what times, didnt follow anyone up didnt chase any money back.

So in short the banks have been ripping people of for years they have made an over payment to me which according to a barister i can keep until its return is requested. If for some strange quirk of law, i end up in court i will have free legal council at least from a barister who has the understanding no law has been broken.

[fil4362]

The ammounts involved witht he 2 above cases are also very diffrent. 22,000 and 18,000 paid into an account are a very diffrent to the ammounts involved with me. If you was expecting a payment and it was 10 times the amount expected, this would eb very difficult to be over looked. A few hundred paid un expectedly into a joint account that 2 people have access to which contains a few thousand could be overlooked. Without looking i never know the exact figure of my savings account as it changes daily by as much as a few thousand. As a matter of fact the cheque the bank sent was opened and paid into my account and was there over a week before i questioned it with my wife and only then as i didnt recognise the "recieved from" refrance on the statement. So in all truth i didnt notice the money for over a week. I only checked then to see if a cheque i had paid in from a problem customer had cleared. A few pence into a thousand pound accoutn can be over looked. A few hundred paid into a ten thousand pound account could be missed. This is clearly obvious as the bank has sent a few hundred from their account, and as of the time of this post, they havnt noticed.

[dave1]

Thanks The Ed. dont worry abotu dave1 i dont think theres been a single post i have been involved in where he has doen anything but disagreed. As for being misled by my barister i very much doubt she or her solisiter husband would be in work if they didnt know the law.

The law is still very clear and if dave1 was correct my barister friend would be fighting my case in court against the bank for taking it from me in the first place, instead of telling me to keep hold of the money.

It's not a question of disagreeing with you Phil. You posted asking people for their opinion of what you should do. I merely quoted THE LAW regarding this matter as I had investigated it myself for reasons I stated and I also sought professional advice. As you say, the law is very clear that it is legally classed as theft to not take all reasonable steps to return the credit that was made to you. Did you even read the link? If you did you must surely see that legally it is theft.....whether or not we agree with the law is really irrelevant. Your barrister friend should be aware of this law and is probably advising you to do nothing on the basis that legal action by the bank is unlikely.

Out of interest, why post asking for opinions if all you really want is for people to agree with you?............the following was the last line of your post:

"I welcome your thoughts. what would you do ?"

[fil4362]

Last time i checked the word "theft" ment taking something without the owners permission. I have taken nothing. So how can that be theft. If someone gave me somthing, me keeping it doesnt make it theft. Thats the point/defence my friend who is currently (not 5 years ago) practicing law quoted me.

I asked peoples opinion Dave1 as whats moral is nothing to do with law. From what i have read on this thread most of the comments agree with exactly what i am doing say nothing and do nothing which altogether suggests most people on here and a barister and her soliseter husband agree with me.

The money has been in my account now almost a month. I have spoken to the bank 3 or 4 times in this time. I am having trouble with a ppi claim back specialist firm who are trying to charge me for their "help" in the case, when they returned the contract saying they couldnt help then i sorted it out myself. Anyway the case has been looked into at least 3/4 times since the over payment no one has yet made a comment about the extra payment. I have recieved a letter from the bank explaining why the ammount was more than agreed (another point i didnt put on here). So in short I have asked the bank to look at the case, the bank have looked into the case for themselves for a ppi claim back firm and for myself. They have reviewed the whole matter several times and still havnt noticed a thing. I am pretty certain i could look around on the internet and find quotes where people have done exactly what i have done and had no problems. The law is very clear, but if you look hard enough you can always find a contradiction. My suggestion is you need better legal advice next time you need it.

[fil4362]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1193009/Barclays-bank-worker-given-double-pay-error-getting-it.html

Almost the same thing. She was able to keep the money as she was told she would be getting an increase. I was told i would be getting a deposit in my account, thats exactly what i got. I was told i would get a lump sum. I got half a payment, when i questioned it i got the other half. I was told the amount would be paid directly into my account, this is what happened.

If you read the article the bank took the money back, the courts made them repay it and continue to pay her at that rate. Like i said look hard enough and you can find a law that contradicts all other laws.I know this isnt a law but its a judge making a call to allow a payee to keep an overpayment.

[dave1]

Last time i checked the word "theft" ment taking something without the owners permission. I have taken nothing. So how can that be theft. If someone gave me somthing, me keeping it doesnt make it theft. Thats the point/defence my friend who is currently (not 5 years ago) practicing law quoted me.

If you had read the link properly you would see that the LAW states that if you keep a credit to your account knowing that it should not have been deposited then you have committed the offence of theft. Unlikely that your bank would try to have you charged but still theft by the letter of the law.

You asked for peoples thoughts and I gave mine without any form of being judgemental and I quoted the relevant Act as it had been quoted to me at the time in order that you were at least aware of the possibility, no matter how slight. The relevant law has not changed since either so your friend is still incorrect although he is almost certainly correct that the bank would be unlikely to go in that direction.

It appears that ChrisIS200TTE got the same advice as me.

[bilmac]

Thanks The Ed. dont worry abotu dave1 i dont think theres been a single post i have been involved in where he has doen anything but disagreed. As for being misled by my barister i very much doubt she or her solisiter husband would be in work if they didnt know the law.

The law is still very clear and if dave1 was correct my barister friend would be fighting my case in court against the bank for taking it from me in the first place, instead of telling me to keep hold of the money.

It's not a question of disagreeing with you Phil. You posted asking people for their opinion of what you should do. I merely quoted THE LAW regarding this matter as I had investigated it myself for reasons I stated and I also sought professional advice. As you say, the law is very clear that it is legally classed as theft to not take all reasonable steps to return the credit that was made to you. Did you even read the link? If you did you must surely see that legally it is theft.....whether or not we agree with the law is really irrelevant. Your barrister friend should be aware of this law and is probably advising you to do nothing on the basis that legal action by the bank is unlikely.

Out of interest, why post asking for opinions if all you really want is for people to agree with you?............the following was the last line of your post:

"I welcome your thoughts. what would you do ?"

No matter how you look at it, Dave1 is correct. if you fail to take reasonable steps to return it is legally theft. that the banks acted badly is not cause for you to. and yes you did ask opinions

[gsdude]

Absolutely do nothing !

Let us not forget that it is the banks that got us into this current mess we are all in and they have shown no remorse (still paying themselve huge bonuses etc) after the sub prime lending bubble burst!

They took your money illegally in the first place and it took a high court judgement to get these highwaymen to cough up refunds.

If they ever have sufficeient joined up thinking to discover their mistake (which would surprise me because these banker people are not that bright) I would delay paying them back for as long as possible. This would include asking for a wriiten explanation as to why the mistake was made. Then write another letter and ask them why the amount differs to the other two that was paid back to you. You can think of about ten questions you want to ask them but only ever write back to them asking one question at a time! Put in writing that until you are satisfied that the money doesn't actually belong to you then you will not be paying it back any time soon.

The other alternative if it is a reasonable sum, is to put it on long term deposit/bond (at a different bank) and explain to your bank that as you are not a 'sophisticated finacial institution' like themselves you honestly thought the money was paid correctly to you and now you have tied the money up on long term deposit so they will just have to wait.

The Ed

P.S - Can you tell I don't like Banks very much :)

P.P.S - Banks don't have any money...................Only other peoples!

Ed, I'm sure you have your opinions on banks for very valid reasons, but having worked in financial services for a few years now it does dishearten me to read. I concur with the opinion that big city bankers and their ridiculous bonuses is quite sickening, but for me this is more so because I know that there are people like me at the bottom of the chain, who work damn hard to live with integrity and do what's morally right for the people who put their trust in me, who earn peanuts in comparison.

It's a shame that in this world, not just in banking but in general, the actions and lack of morals of a minority can lead to widespread labelling and often discrimination of a majority. Greed is to blame for this economic mess, 'banks' are just a piece of that puzzle. Don't get me wrong at the end of the day we all do it for the paycheck we all gotta pay the bills but when I come home from work knowing that I have 'sufficient joined up thinking' to prevent somebody from being conned out of thousands of pounds by a fraudster, or even if I helped a lady with her luggage at the train station it might sound silly and cheesy but its the little things like that makes life that little bit more rewarding.

Bottom line though if it was me in this scenario, I would spent it on some brand new 18"s for my Lex ;) Lol jk...to be fair though, if something is not right and you've been overpaid then trust me it will eventually get noticed. Also it could be somebody else's money (i.e. another customer) I'd just save everybody the trouble and speak to them about it.