Should Lexus Be Concerned About Audi

[200h]

i have today been looking at an article about the new Audi A3 plug-in hybrid

its seems on paper to be a really cheap car to run ,quick and like the ct no road tax.

the car can travel 31 miles at its maximum Battery speed of 80mph

return 176 mpg

0 - 60 in 7.6 seconds

and CO2 emissions of 37g/km

i am not sure if it recharges the Battery as your driving or if its only charged by plugging in

if it does recharge whilst on the move this in my opinion will be a serious contender for lexus

here is the review

http://recombu.com/cars/articles/news/meet-the-audi-a3-sportback-e-tron-plug-in-hybrid

what do you think ???

[ColinBarber]

Very similar in concept to the Prius plug-in but with very good on paper performance and economy stats. Now all the manufacturers are focusing on hybrid technology Toyota are facing some strong competition and it does seem they have been resting on their laurels for a number of years now, although to be fair it is always easier to copy and improve on something rather than invest the R&D into something new.

At this stage it really is only Toyota and Honda that have proven reliability with hybrids, I'm not sure I'd want to trust something new from VAG.

Whether this will impact CT sales is a good question. The Audi is substantially more expensive, even with the government subsidy, than a base CT and Lexus have really pushed the CT total cost of ownership for company car drivers which will still be better.

IMO the biggest reason for choosing a CT, or any Lexus, remains, you want to drive something different - you don't want a Golf, A3, 1 series, or A class like everybody else.

[KDS]

Absolutely agree - great to be different and to be with tried and tested and reliable technology.

Sent from my Iphone using Lexus OC

[steve2006]

Do you know why Nissan call their electric plug in car the "Leaf"?

You plug it in in March and by autumn it may be fully charged :)

[200h]

isn't this awful this is for a renault zoe full electric and there is a monthly Battery rental charge

below is a table of charges, so a 12mth contract covering 12000 miles / annum would cost you £1356 / year

i dont pay anywhere near that for the ct in fuel and i can travel anywhere i want to without running out of volts

Monthly Battery rental pricing, including VAT and assistance for all breakdowns, will be as follows:

Annual Mileage Up to 7,500 9,000 10,500 12,000

36M+ Contract

£70

£77

£85

£93

24M Contract

£80

£87

£95

£103

12M Contract

£90

£97

£105

£113

[stepppy]

I thought when they first came out you could buy the Zoe outright with no monthly Battery charge if you wanted, but now it seems you can't?

[Wass]

I am just waiting for the plug in craze to become the sensible norm. Compare the cost of this piffling little Audi to a Mitsubishi Outlander. There is clearly still a way to go in terms of cost engineering. The Audi is overpriced by around £10000 whereas most plug ins are overpriced by about £5000. Lets see what the prices go like when the UK government withdraw the grant.

The way I think of plug ins is:

They cost more because

Instead of the hybrid Battery , you get a... hybrid Battery

Instead of the engine, you get ...the same engine

Instead of an electric motor you get.... an electric motor which is probably very simliar

Instead of a non plug in electronic control system you get .... a plug in electronic control system

Instead of getting reduced space in the boot you get ... very reduced space in the boot.

and in addition you get a plug on the opposite side to the petrol cap

All in all about £500 tops for having a smaller boot instead of the £5000 price differential between plug in petrol hybrid and non plug in petrol hybrid. The price of the Outlander is the way which the prices are bound to go and I think there might be some red faced Audi owners around in a few years time.

[ColinBarber]

I am just waiting for the plug in craze to become the sensible norm. Compare the cost of this piffling little Audi to a Mitsubishi Outlander. There is clearly still a way to go in terms of cost engineering. The Audi is overpriced by around £10000 whereas most plug ins are overpriced by about £5000. Lets see what the prices go like when the UK government withdraw the grant.

The way I think of plug ins is:

They cost more because

Instead of the hybrid battery , you get a... hybrid battery

Instead of the engine, you get ...the same engine

Instead of an electric motor you get.... an electric motor which is probably very simliar

Instead of a non plug in electronic control system you get .... a plug in electronic control system

Instead of getting reduced space in the boot you get ... very reduced space in the boot.

and in addition you get a plug on the opposite side to the petrol cap

All in all about £500 tops for having a smaller boot instead of the £5000 price differential between plug in petrol hybrid and non plug in petrol hybrid. The price of the Outlander is the way which the prices are bound to go and I think there might be some red faced Audi owners around in a few years time.

In the case of the plug-in Prius compared to a normal one the Battery pack is much more expensive and it uses a more powerful motor. That combined with an R&D budget to recover in a niche segment and probably money set aside for warranty/recall issues on Battery technology that doesn't have long term proven reliability means it is about 30% more expensive.

[Valkirk]

I'm surprised Lexus hasn't moved onto this already - it still amazes me even the next gen like the NX aren't being launched with plug in capability. How much of a Lexus uptake increase would there have been if all of the model range was £0 road tax with £5,000 government incentive?

[rayaans]

Few points -

-£30,000 for a mediocre little car which will easily reach £40k with options

-Strained engine note due to the tiny engine (review says this)

-Impractical to plug in

-176mpg is practically impossible to get - itll be around the 100mpg during normal driving.

Of course, there's new generation hybrid technology on the horizon for Lexus too. The new Prius will come with it and will offer lithium ion batteries as an option which will increase the range and power output.

Lexus refuses to go plug-in because it holds you back and hinders the cars practically, not to mention the extra cost of the technology.

Heres a commercial showing Lexus giving a low blow to plug in vehicles -

[Valkirk]

I think there is confusion between adding plug in capability to a hybrid like the prius plug in and pure electric / range extenders.

Adding plug in capabilities to a Lexus Hybrid would offer little down side if they can keep the additional Battery / tech required to under £5k

If you use the car for short journeys (think 10-20 miles) you can just use the car as electric never needing to use petrol.

Anything over that then the engine just kicks in and the car operates exactly as before.

The only difference is the batteries have more capacity and you can charge them externally rather than only by the engine / brake regen.

[ColinBarber]

I agree Lexus should offer this. Not electric only but allow plug-in charging with an extended Battery pack and higher performance motor(s) to their existing hybrid system - as with the Prius plug-in and the Audi in the OP.

Toyota still seem reluctant to use Lithium Ion batteries and it still hasn't been confirmed the new Prius will offer this. It appears the next gen Prius has been delayed by 6 months, probably because of the increased competition.

[Valkirk]

This is a good example of where they are loosing ground, new S Class Merc just released a plug in: http://www5.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/the-s-500-plug-in-hybrid-s-class/?csref=_sm:in_gbls500hybrid_twr_kw32_pc

Tiny running costs (ignoring the massive depreciation of course lol ) no longer is the LS the hybrid king - I love Lexus and really hope they move with the times on these for the next gen, they missed it with NX and IS but if the new CT, GS and RX launch without plugin then I think they will rapidly loose ground.

They are in a great position to capitalise of the shift against diesel with talk of increasing road tax and congestion charge, they just need to make it.

[rayaans]

This is a good example of where they are loosing ground, new S Class Merc just released a plug in: http://www5.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/the-s-500-plug-in-hybrid-s-class/?csref=_sm:in_gbls500hybrid_twr_kw32_pc

Tiny running costs (ignoring the massive depreciation of course lol ) no longer is the LS the hybrid king - I love Lexus and really hope they move with the times on these for the next gen, they missed it with NX and IS but if the new CT, GS and RX launch without plugin then I think they will rapidly loose ground.

They are in a great position to capitalise of the shift against diesel with talk of increasing road tax and congestion charge, they just need to make it.

This is a good example of where they are loosing ground, new S Class Merc just released a plug in: http://www5.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/the-s-500-plug-in-hybrid-s-class/?csref=_sm:in_gbls500hybrid_twr_kw32_pc

Tiny running costs (ignoring the massive depreciation of course lol ) no longer is the LS the hybrid king - I love Lexus and really hope they move with the times on these for the next gen, they missed it with NX and IS but if the new CT, GS and RX launch without plugin then I think they will rapidly loose ground.

They are in a great position to capitalise of the shift against diesel with talk of increasing road tax and congestion charge, they just need to make it.

The thing is, Lexus is only about 25 years old. They dont have as much profits as Audi/BMW/Merc as they dont have as much overall volume so they cant afford to make cars that nobody buys when their normal hybrids are cheaper and more convenient to live with.

Ive heard there is something in the pipeline, but its not to do with plug in hybrids, its to do mainly with hydrogen gas

[ColinBarber]

Toyota don't even offer the choice we are talking about and they are the largest auto maker in the world both in terms of volume and profits. The small Lexus marketing department will just use whatever Toyota have developed.

Toyota have been putting a lot of R&D into hydrogen for a number of years, but so have a lot of other manufacturers too. That isn't a good excuse for the lack of hybrid development.

[Valkirk]

Agree with what you're saying but it is important to remember when Lexus launched with the LS it was the best luxury car in the world, it demolished the german offerings etc, this was achieved by Lexus setting out to build the best car in the class from scratch.

If they want to do it they could, if they want to be the best then they need to put the effort in, I think they have turned a new page tbh - the roll out of new models over the next few years is impressive and I am very much looking forwards to hearing about the RCF but they need the move the game along to stay leaders in the hybrid field.

[Wass]

Getting back to the original question,will the Audi concern Lexus? Does it ever? No! Audi buyers will be pleased they don't have to buy a cheap Japanese car and instead they can buy a car that's so much better than a Volkswagon, Seat or Skoda. Just like Lexus CT owners like to buy cars which are so much better than a Toyota.

[200h]

mercedes have been testing hydrogen in an A class called the F cell for quiet a while now

[steven_9709]

I've actually driven an A3 E-tron, and I'll tell you what? It's a seriously impressive package. So much so, that I'm hoping to swap my CT for one. It's only going to come in one spec with no options and it's pretty well kitted out. The tech in the car and the finish put Lexus to shame. Ok, A3s are common on the roads, but there won't be many E-trons around and I'm sure that they won't have many of the 'quirks' that Lexus has especially with the their SatNav/Audio

I feel with Lexus that they've been caught napping a bit here with plug-in technology. With Battery technology improving significantly and quickly it's only a matter of time until electric only range increases considerably. I can do my trip to work and back for 4 days on electric only before needing to recharge so for me it's a very good option

[rayaans]

I've actually driven an A3 E-tron, and I'll tell you what? It's a seriously impressive package. So much so, that I'm hoping to swap my CT for one. It's only going to come in one spec with no options and it's pretty well kitted out. The tech in the car and the finish put Lexus to shame. Ok, A3s are common on the roads, but there won't be many E-trons around and I'm sure that they won't have many of the 'quirks' that Lexus has especially with the their SatNav/Audio

I feel with Lexus that they've been caught napping a bit here with plug-in technology. With battery technology improving significantly and quickly it's only a matter of time until electric only range increases considerably. I can do my trip to work and back for 4 days on electric only before needing to recharge so for me it's a very good option

You're seriously going to pay £30k for an A3 with no options? Thats after the grant as well. Its seriously overpriced for what it is. Why dont you just get a 1.4TFSI S-Line if you like the Audi so much. It'll save £6k and im sure the e-tron wont save you £6k worth of petrol in even 3 years.

+ I still dont get the Audi fit and finish hype. Its pretty much the same as BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Jaguar. Cant really see what doesnt "fit" together well in even the CT. Even the advance I drove had no rattles and thats a budget Lexus

[steven_9709]

I've actually driven an A3 E-tron, and I'll tell you what? It's a seriously impressive package. So much so, that I'm hoping to swap my CT for one. It's only going to come in one spec with no options and it's pretty well kitted out. The tech in the car and the finish put Lexus to shame. Ok, A3s are common on the roads, but there won't be many E-trons around and I'm sure that they won't have many of the 'quirks' that Lexus has especially with the their SatNav/Audio

I feel with Lexus that they've been caught napping a bit here with plug-in technology. With battery technology improving significantly and quickly it's only a matter of time until electric only range increases considerably. I can do my trip to work and back for 4 days on electric only before needing to recharge so for me it's a very good option

You're seriously going to pay £30k for an A3 with no options? Thats after the grant as well. Its seriously overpriced for what it is. Why dont you just get a 1.4TFSI S-Line if you like the Audi so much. It'll save £6k and im sure the e-tron wont save you £6k worth of petrol in even 3 years.

+ I still dont get the Audi fit and finish hype. Its pretty much the same as BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Jaguar. Cant really see what doesnt "fit" together well in even the CT. Even the advance I drove had no rattles and thats a budget Lexus

Appreciate it's not cheap but it's not that much different in price to a CT. You're paying a premium for the new technology and the fact that it's a plug in - all plug-in cars come at a premium, you've only got to look at the Prius to see that. My CT is 2 1/2 years old now having covered 37000 miles and it has developed some annoying squeaks and rattles. I normally change my car after 1 1/2 - 2 years anyway and I think for me that the E-tron will be a great option. The other option that I'm looking at is the Golf GTE.

[rayaans]

I've actually driven an A3 E-tron, and I'll tell you what? It's a seriously impressive package. So much so, that I'm hoping to swap my CT for one. It's only going to come in one spec with no options and it's pretty well kitted out. The tech in the car and the finish put Lexus to shame. Ok, A3s are common on the roads, but there won't be many E-trons around and I'm sure that they won't have many of the 'quirks' that Lexus has especially with the their SatNav/Audio

I feel with Lexus that they've been caught napping a bit here with plug-in technology. With battery technology improving significantly and quickly it's only a matter of time until electric only range increases considerably. I can do my trip to work and back for 4 days on electric only before needing to recharge so for me it's a very good option

You're seriously going to pay £30k for an A3 with no options? Thats after the grant as well. Its seriously overpriced for what it is. Why dont you just get a 1.4TFSI S-Line if you like the Audi so much. It'll save £6k and im sure the e-tron wont save you £6k worth of petrol in even 3 years.

+ I still dont get the Audi fit and finish hype. Its pretty much the same as BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Jaguar. Cant really see what doesnt "fit" together well in even the CT. Even the advance I drove had no rattles and thats a budget Lexus

Appreciate it's not cheap but it's not that much different in price to a CT. You're paying a premium for the new technology and the fact that it's a plug in - all plug-in cars come at a premium, you've only got to look at the Prius to see that. My CT is 2 1/2 years old now having covered 37000 miles and it has developed some annoying squeaks and rattles. I normally change my car after 1 1/2 - 2 years anyway and I think for me that the E-tron will be a great option. The other option that I'm looking at is the Golf GTE.

Why not wait for the hydrogen fuel cell Toyota which is coming out next year then? :P. The rattles and squeaks will be fixed under warranty. Besides, I thought my RX was rattling, turns out it was one of my belongings rolling around under the seat and hitting the side plastic! Problem is, Audi's have electrical problems in the MMI and other gremlins with lights and things, wouldnt trust them with a whole electric vehicle lol

[stepppy]

Not had any electrical gremlins in any of my Audi's in nearly 8 years

[rayaans]

Not had any electrical gremlins in any of my Audi's in nearly 8 years

Ive had alot in 3 different cars - Q7, A8, S4

[stepppy]

Not had any electrical gremlins in any of my Audi's in nearly 8 years

Ive had alot in 3 different cars - Q7, A8, S4

I think its like with any car, its the luck of the draw.