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That's marketing for you. When VW were making racist ads in the 70/80s, did you consider VW a racist company or did you see see it as just marketing against the onslaught of Japanese imports ?

A better idea of Toyotas/Lexus stance would be from an executive, even then he wouldn't be letting on in terms of details of what they have behind the scenes,

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097815_lexus-bypassing-plug-in-hybrids-looking-at-fuel-cells-maybe-evs

 

All i can say is, what is your agenda  on this forum ?

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I doubt you can get a true picture of what R&D a large company like Toyota are up to from a Google search most of which are written by some junior hack who has also only researched from other equally inaccurate Google searches. Remember GIGO.

The way I see it is electric cars are not there in terms of every day usability unless you only drive to the local shops & back.  Tesla are interesting but at £65k it is hardly a car for the masses. I would rather have a Range Rover for that kind of money.  The Model X is not proving to be very reliable and gull wing doors are not suitable in the small parking spaces of the UK.

Ed:yes:

 

 

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10 hours ago, ganzoom said:

Its pretty clear what Lexus/Toyota think of EVs

lexus-anti-ev-ad.png

But sadly for Toyota EV sales are only heading in one direction. 

https://electrek.co/2016/10/17/electric-vehicle-sales-have-now-surpassed-500000-total-cars-in-the-us/

And whilst EV sales are constantly growing the same cannot be said for Lexus sales in the US. The longer Toyota/Lexus refuse to accept they have backed the wrong horse interms of wasting time and money on hydrogen, the sooner they can start to develop relevant products people want to buy, but for now its head in the sand apporach. 

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/09/01/lexus-august-2016-sales-report/

You might remember a small company called Kodak, 'invented' the first digital camera,  but apparently there was no future in that product;) 

http://mashable.com/2012/01/20/kodak-digital-missteps/#ZWcVjW6VPkq4

That doesn't mean anything though....

Just because they say one thing now, doesn't mean they will not change their mind. Im 100% sure that Toyota said they wouldn't be doing plug in hybrids, yet the prius can be had in plug-in hybrid form

If you look at the above, anyone would think Lexus are having a go at 4 cylinder engines, yet the GS now comes with one along with the IS, NX and RX.

 

If I think about it carefully, my wife can probably use a full electric car. The only problem is that the Tesla model S is too big, the Tesla model 3 doesn't look great in my eyes and the model X also looks horrible.

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The same of marketing. You cannot tell or determine future company  policy or future products based on it's current marketing. It's current marketing is to sell it's current range of Hybrid. It's claim is currently true wouldn't you say othewise it would fall foul of advertising standards.

 

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" Just because they say one thing now, doesn't mean they will not change their mind. Im 100% sure that Toyota said they wouldn't be doing plug in hybrids, yet the prius can be had in plug-in hybrid form "

So if you say that, you are agreeing with me, you cannot determine future products based on their current marketing, otherwise you'd be able to predict what they have in R&D, and you know you cannot say anything for certainty, based even on what you have said yourself. Hence for you to say that Lexus hates EVs based on current ads,& marketing push is groundless don't you think ?

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6 hours ago, capese21 said:

The Model X is not proving to be very reliable and gull wing doors are not suitable in the small parking spaces of the UK.

Ed:yes:

 

 

I don't expect our X to be reliable, it took Tesla 2 years to sort out all the issues with the S but having owned a BMW recently I'm fully prepared for multiple trips to the garage :). 

The doors though are amazing, they open in spaces normal doors cannot. I've played with them on two occasions now for 30min each, constantly opening/closing them, they were faultless.

I'm checking my Tesla order page twice a day at the moment patiently waiting for our X to be given a VIN and build slot. I really cannot remember ever been this excited about any car before, and I've been lucky enough to own/drive some very tasty machinery. 

 

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Some stats to put things in perspective.

Toyota produces 10 million cars per year. Toyota is absolute marketleader in hybrid vehicles with 9 million sold until last may. In 2015 the total number of plug in electric vehicles sold in the entire european Union was 50,000. With exception of scandinavia, netherlands and california the share of plug ins per country is less than 1%. in the countries where this is higher it is artificially influenced with fiscal stimulation. Less than 10% of plug ins are purchased by private owners.

So, not really a big market is it... There is no way you can build a solid businesscase on those numbers.  The main reason why manufacturers are spending millions in R&D is the C02 legislation, hence downsizing etc. The market is not there in spite of the fact that a lot of press coverage goes to manufacturers like Tesla and all developments about electric infrastructure in innercities and highways.

With fiscal stimulation plug ins are expensive and if that is taken away they are unsellable. The choice now is not between a Tesla or Range Rover as evenly priced but between Tesla and nothing as fiscal stimulation means free transport for the owner.

The positive side about Electric Vehicles is silentness, acceleration and the idea the power is green ( electricity has to come from somewhere). The negative a limited range, especially when driven hard or in winter, excessive weight and an inflated price.

Until a breakthrough in batterytechnology is here i prefer a hybrid or diesel         

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, mpls said:

" Just because they say one thing now, doesn't mean they will not change their mind. Im 100% sure that Toyota said they wouldn't be doing plug in hybrids, yet the prius can be had in plug-in hybrid form "

So if you say that, you are agreeing with me, you cannot determine future products based on their current marketing, otherwise you'd be able to predict what they have in R&D, and you know you cannot say anything for certainty, based even on what you have said yourself. Hence for you to say that Lexus hates EVs based on current ads,& marketing push is groundless don't you think ?

I think you're confusing me with Ganzoom.

I've never said Lexus hates EVs

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[pb2g2DdxbG8] 

                                [/pb2g2DdxbG8]   Maybe sliding doors would have been a better option.

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Oh dear, and i thought closing was the problem...

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7FHsWr9j7A 

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^^ Well I suspect soon there wouldn't be that many Model X owners in the UK anyways to worry about anything. It's pretty inevitable a 10%+ price increase will be coming to ALL Tesla cars to adjust for the weak £. Tesla have already removed the cheapest version of the X (the one I ordered), so now the cheapest 6 seater version (buying the 5 seater version is pretty pointless since you might as well just get the S) with leather is over £81K with no additional options, add in the expected 10% price increase thats £90K for the CHEAPEST version of the car when you add in leather+more than 5 seats :wacko:

Even the cheapest Model S will be over £60K before any options.

I'm just glad the invoice price for our order is 'locked in' and not affected by any future price increases, but anyone actually seriously interested in buying a Tesla anytime soon would be well advised to put in a deposit now, prices are heading north and turning an expensive car into fantasy land for most. I'll be amazed if Lexus prices don't up too at some point, really not good news for us customers :sad:.

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1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Oh dear, and i thought closing was the problem...

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7FHsWr9j7A 

Those are just sensor programming issues, and apparently sorted on early cars. Personally I'm more worried about the issues people have had with front doors, because they are all motorised (self opening/closing), if the motor fails they don't seem to latch. The saving grace is the car comes with a 4 year warranty which remain intact regardless if you 'service it or not'. Mine wouldn't go near a Tesla service centre unless it's for warranty work, which is almost a certainty, or at 3 years and 11 month just before the warranty expires for them to fix any issues than :).

 

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17 hours ago, rayaans said:

I think you're confusing me with Ganzoom.

I've never said Lexus hates EVs

 

Sorry yes, you are right. apologies..

What I hate is people trying to do a hard sell on Tesla on a Lexus forum, I'm sure none of us go onto BMW/erc forum to do the same there..

This forum topic was meant to be gentle chat about possible future purchases, all makes consideed including even Tesla by some - fine., but not to be a technical/marketing sell on Tesla. If I was a Tesla fanboy, I'd go onto ta tesla Forum..

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OH NO!!! there is more bad news about tesla productquality......

www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/3-tesla-model-x-problems-keep-popping.html/?a=viewall 

 

 

 

 

 

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NONONO i do not want to read this anymore i thought Teslas were just incredibly intelligent cars shadowing all Lexus models and making them obsolete the moment you drive off in a brandnew Tesla! what a disappointment.....

 

www.greencarreports.com/news/1100561_tesla-model-s-too-many-problems-to-recommend-consumer-report-says  

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30 minutes ago, mpls said:

 

If I was a Tesla fanboy, I'd go onto ta tesla Forum..

I got so fed up of him always going on about Tesla this, Tesla that, Tesla the other.......I put him on my ignore list !!

BTW, he's the only LOC member on that list.

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Hey Ganzoom, correct me if i am wrong but 90K seems to buy you an underdeveloped EV called Tesla with mediocre buildquality, horrible fit and finish, rust at critical places after some months, batterypacks that often stop working, doors that do not work, touchscreens that need replacing as they freeze and die, a curb weight of 2450kgs, depreciation faster than a novice skiing down a black slope, and looks that are questionable to say the least. ( i find it damn ugly looks like a whale but taste is personal). How can you say that Lexus is missing the boat compared with this?

for thesame amount you could have bought a beautiful Range Rover, a superfast BMW 7 series ( or X⁶ ) Audi, Merc or Lexus RX And IS.

 

 

 

 

   

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Sick to death hearing about Tesla on this forum. £81k for a model x what a waste of money.

Back on topic, hoping to change to a new GS300h in early 2017 from my current IS300h.

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I'll go back on topic too...after my little spat !

Mrs ledzep and me have had some great times in the IS250C convertible, but going to change to something more appropriate next May (ish).

We're both in our sixties now and something less low-slung would be good !  13 plate RX450h is in my sights, Advance spec hopefully.  We'll wait and see ???

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Well - Mrs Jenkins and I are just back home after an afternoon driving my (oops, our!) new to me 13 plate IS300h Premium sunroof in Mesa Red with grey leather! The car is in immaculate condition, well pleased.

This is my 4th IS, I love the cars, bought one of the first IS200 in Scotland after being narked at a BMW salesman and vowing not to buy another beemer!

I've dealt with 2 Lexus salesmen (retired Glasgow gentleman) and 2 cars from Sebastien in Newbridge - excellent customer service which means a lot to me (and the cars are excellent too!).

I've been a lurker on here for ages, not posted much coz I'm not as clued up as most of you guys but am grateful for all the info and tips I've used with my traded-in IS250 SE-L.

And now first question with my Hybrid - I will be out the country for 3 months over the winter, which basic trickle charger is recommended to keep my Battery topped up? Do I just clip onto the Battery terminals in the hood and plug into 13amp socket?

And rightly or wrongly got the Supergard so have to wait a few days to give it a good wash and then get some of my Poorboys World Natty's Blue Paste Wax for Darker Vehicles on it - or should I claybar it first?

All set for a Saturday of setting up keys, memory seats, Mark Levinson sound, android phone and finding out the updates.

One happy chappie!

Ian J

IMAG3154.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, lex3 said:

Well - Mrs Jenkins and I are just back home after an afternoon driving my (oops, our!) new to me 13 plate IS300h Premium sunroof in Mesa Red with grey leather! The car is in immaculate condition, well pleased.

This is my 4th IS, I love the cars, bought one of the first IS200 in Scotland after being narked at a BMW salesman and vowing not to buy another beemer!

I've dealt with 2 Lexus salesmen (retired Glasgow gentleman) and 2 cars from Sebastien in Newbridge - excellent customer service which means a lot to me (and the cars are excellent too!).

I've been a lurker on here for ages, not posted much coz I'm not as clued up as most of you guys but am grateful for all the info and tips I've used with my traded-in IS250 SE-L.

And now first question with my Hybrid - I will be out the country for 3 months over the winter, which basic trickle charger is recommended to keep my battery topped up? Do I just clip onto the battery terminals in the hood and plug into 13amp socket?

And rightly or wrongly got the Supergard so have to wait a few days to give it a good wash and then get some of my Poorboys World Natty's Blue Paste Wax for Darker Vehicles on it - or should I claybar it first?

All set for a Saturday of setting up keys, memory seats, Mark Levinson sound, android phone and finding out the updates.

One happy chappie!

Ian J

IMAG3154.jpg

 

I just plug my Solar Panel into the obd Port and it starts first time when I return !!

The Solar Panel ( and the GS 450H ) face South so as to maximise the available light.

 

Regards

John

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8 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Hey Ganzoom, correct me if i am wrong but 90K seems to buy you an underdeveloped EV called Tesla with mediocre buildquality, horrible fit and finish, rust at critical places after some months, batterypacks that often stop working, doors that do not work, touchscreens that need replacing as they freeze and die, a curb weight of 2450kgs, depreciation faster than a novice skiing down a black slope, and looks that are questionable to say the least. ( i find it damn ugly looks like a whale but taste is personal). How can you say that Lexus is missing the boat compared with this?

for thesame amount you could have bought a beautiful Range Rover, a superfast BMW 7 series ( or X⁶ ) Audi, Merc or Lexus RX And IS.

I absolutely agree, £90k is crazy money for a base car and they wouldn't see any at that price in the Uk, which is exactly what I was pointing out. 

But you wouldn't find me spending a single £ on ancient outdated technology known as the internal combustion engine. Its like going out now to buy a old CRT TV, yes you can get one for much cheaper than a 4K OLED panel, but why would you waste money on outdated tech?? 

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Ganzoom, your TV comparison is valid but it's like paying £15k for a flat screen telly when they first came out and now they are as little as a few hundred pounds. EV is part of the future motoring solution but ICE cars won't completely disappear. Sick to death hearing about Tesla on this feed. Why don't you just sell the Lexus and order a second Tesla and stop ramming EV down our throats. Musk must be laughing all the way to bank with guys like you. Enjoy the swift trips back to the shop for lots of warranty visits. The rest of us will have to slum it in our outdated old reliable Hybrids.

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^^ Early adopters always pay more for new technology. I had the first 3G Iphone, and yes I was one of the people that spent stupid amounts on an earlish plasma screen.

This thread is about what car people want to get next. We are on the cusp of a massive revolution in personal transportation and energy generation. Going into denial mode about the future seems like rather bizzar state of mind when there is so much exciting changes ahead. 

I wouldn't stop going on about EVs because I want my daughter to grow in a world where we no longer need to explode a fuel we dig out of the ground in order to provide us with powered transportation. So you can absolutely ignore me but change is coming like it or not, and I suspect alot quicker than what many people realise. 

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Ganzoom, I think you are right, ev / fuel cell / hydrogen is the future. 

But I need something that works now.

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  • Club Hybrid Poll

  • 209 Hybrid Reliability

    1. 1. If you were to consider buying a Hybrid model over 5 years old, would you be worried about the reliability of the Hybrid system?


      • Not really as Hybrid systems are always reliable
      • Not if it had a Manufacturers Warranty on the Hybrid system
      • I would not buy a Hybrid model over 5 years old