IS-F on Autotrader

[Linas.P]

Just noticed this one - seems good value, mileage is not ridiculous, dealer service history, tidy car otherwise, it has been long time since I have seen IS-F under £16,000 and those are usually 180k miles, am I missing anything? MOT history mentions front light alignment issue, so perhaps had a little front end damage off the records (i.e. was not written-off). For some odd reason seems like I have seen it before - maybe somebody around here owned it?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307239978479

Not intending to buy, just sharing what seems to be reasonably priced IS-F if somebody interested. 

[GMB]

Looks really nice at first glance, but a bit of a high mileage. The bit that raises my eyebrows is in the picture of the service history where it seems that the same pen and writing style are shown on the service record over different locations and years????  I may be completely wrong but......

I like the one at £29K. Just need to see if the price comes down to a reasonable £26K. I bet someone will snap it up although it may take a while.

[Linas.P]

Noticed that as well, but I would be happy to give the seller benefit of doubt - easily checked as well, as one can simply do it online, or perhaps seller has invoice confirming the work done. Even that said - one missed service would not be the worst thing that could happen to 15 years old car, but obviously just raises suspicion of what else seller is not telling if that turns out to be fake.

I would not really worry about the mileage - 15 years and 133k miles seems to be normal annual mileage, I would actually be very careful with low mileage cars of that age as sitting around may hurt as much if not sometimes more than driving it around. So very low mileage cars are kind of lose lose - you overpay for the low mileage, yet the car may have all the same issues and may require same amount of work to maintain. Sure that are some mileage related service and some age related service, so low miles car has slight advantage e.g. spark plugs will be fine, inside of the engine probably will not be worn, interior probably will be better etc. but that is why I think 133k miles is still okey, as it is not high enough to really cause any trouble to any of major components. So I would rather take car with 133k miles and 13-15 service stamps, than I would take car with 30k miles and maybe 8 service stamps. The problem is that most very low mileage cars are not serviced correctly, going by same example 15 years old car should have 15 service stamps, yet I don't believe any 30k miles IS-F would have services done every 2k miles. 

So yes - as I said very high mileage cars are not great, there was one for £14,800 and 193,000 miles - that is just bad deal, even with all services in the world that car will be simply worn out. But I would be equally suspicious of the car which has way too low miles for the age, and would not pay any extra for it. 133k sounds just about right for 15 years and as long as price reflects it and there is service history I would rather have that and save £13,000. After all considering the risks paying £13,000 less leaves a lot in the bank to deal with any issue. Other note - having had many IS mk2 I know that at least from interior perspective they last very nicely to around 120,000 miles and with decent attention and maybe few repairs (like replacing shifter knob, steering wheel leather and restoring drivers right seat bolster) could last into 180,000. Obviously expect to replace a lot of suspension parts, bushings and similar stuff if that has not been done, as after 133k miles they will be worn out, but even more importantly - after 15 years they will be dry rotten anyway, so here is why low mileage cars are not at all better.

Overall, Lexus value is mainly coming from the fact they could be driven for a lot of miles without issues as long as they are maintained, so the best value Lexus are high-mileage Lexus. Whereas other cars would be stupid to buy at that mileage e.g. BMW E92 M3 which is comparable would be total scrap by the time it gets to 133k, yet the Lexus IS-F may be fully serviceable car. 

[GMB]

I see the point and on a general basis your logic rings true. But every car and owner is different. I like to think my pandered Isf has a lowish mileage, and I am trying to keep it low. (  Sept 2012 MY   -62K miles) It is treated like Lord Muck and goes for little runs for its own sake.  -     ( No! Not on its own! )

The big issue is that it does not go out in the rain and certainly not on salty roads. Does that mean it will remain in excellent condition and last for ages? I hope so. But things will age, especially bushes and the like, they can easily be replaced.

I do all the things that I was taught to keep an engine/trans in good condition but I will not bore you withy the details.

TBH it is just the best car I have ever had and I want to keep it that way.😍💞💓

A car that has done all that mileage over British roads and in winter too is worthy of a lengthy inspection underneath.

[Linas.P]

I think we are in agreement on all you said above.

I remember hating myself for maintaining my IS250 to such high standard up-to 200k miles  and getting low ball insurance pay out when it got written off, just because the mileage and ignoring the fact that my car was in better condition than most with half the miles. I know some other owners might be the same as well, but most are not.

That said I would not dismiss the car as having too much miles as long as there is corresponding service history and mileage is not excessive. In this case (provided there is no nasty secrets), it seems like fair car for fair price, and perhaps the one that could be enjoyed in any weather without a worry to put too many miles on it... so higher mileage car like this has it's own benefit. 

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

The bit that raises my eyebrows is in the picture of the service history where it seems that the same pen and writing style are shown on the service record over different locations and years????

It's a replacement book. It would have been posted to the different Lexus dealers for them to fill it back in - so all the services at one dealer would be written at the same time by the same person, hence the same pen and handwriting.

[Linas.P]

As well when dealers sells the car they simply fill the book for any service records that were not filled (if asked). Was the same case when I bought my RC - it had no service book, so the sales person just filled it all in and stamped in front of me. That doesn't mean the service was not done, just the the book was not stamped in such case.

[ubersonic]

10 hours ago, GMB said:

Looks really nice at first glance, but a bit of a high mileage. The bit that raises my eyebrows is in the picture of the service history where it seems that the same pen and writing style are shown on the service record over different locations and years????

This isn't actually as sus as it first appears, what has probably happened here, is that the owner has forgotten to take the service book with him when getting the car serviced, for multiple years, then finally remembered it and asked the dealership to back stamp all the missing services.

Lexus Tunbridge Wells have then filled in and stamped all the ones they did, but only filled in the one Lexus Cheltenham did as they don't have their stamp.

[ubersonic]

11 hours ago, GMB said:

Looks really nice at first glance, but a bit of a high mileage.

That's average/regular mileage for a Lexus knocking on 16 years of age.

This is a high mileage ISF:

NB: That's obviously a joke, high mileage for an ISF is 200k+ that one is a well used outlier.

[Yorkshire Lexus]

Tax looks cheap at £695 !!!

[RichGS11]

19 minutes ago, Yorkshire Lexus said:

Tax looks cheap at £695 !!!

I'd like to think you don't buy a V8 if running costs are a concern 😆

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Lexus said:

Tax looks cheap at £695 !!!

Yes sadly that is the situation in our country, but paying £695 for IS-F isn't really that bad of deal. IS250 for example is £395 already, later manual ones are £675 as well. You will be paying same for SC430, GS430/460 or any other similar car. And I am using "similar" loosely as IS-F is clearly hotter version of the car. 

Some Jaguars and Aston Martins are the only ones that have slight lower tax (must be some good old British favouritism), but apart of that you will be paying similar price for most of cars with V8.   

10 hours ago, ubersonic said:

This isn't actually as sus as it first appears, what has probably happened here, is that the owner has forgotten to take the service book with him when getting the car serviced, for multiple years, then finally remembered it and asked the dealership to back stamp all the missing services.

Lexus Tunbridge Wells have then filled in and stamped all the ones they did, but only filled in the one Lexus Cheltenham did as they don't have their stamp.

As you said it looks like it was filled by Lexus Tunbridge Wells and not the owner himself, so should be fine. I would definitely question the history and make sure to confirm it, but as you said there are many ways to explain why it looks like it does.

[EP80]

Doesn't look like high mileage to me either. Its a 15 year old car that can be used as a daily, I'm not sure what is expected.

Price looks good too, the only thing I don't like is the grey HU surround, but its correct for that year.

Considering some of the obscene prices the market "appears" to be commanding for these cars. It looks very fairly priced to me. 

 

[Grey One]

This is interesting to me, as my ISF is my daily, is a 2012 with 85k on the clock.  I am trying to keep the mileage creep low, but know it will be 100k in the next 2-3 years.  To me this isn't a garage queen sports car, so I'm happy to use it as my daily.

I plan to run it for the next 3-4 years, and absorb any costs that come up.  Beyond that, we'll see...

It is such a fantastic car, so simple and straightforward to use (no nanny devices and built-in stop/start. suspension menus etc) and reliable :)

 

[GMB]

2 hours ago, Grey One said:

This is interesting to me, as my ISF is my daily, is a 2012 with 85k on the clock.  I am trying to keep the mileage creep low, but know it will be 100k in the next 2-3 years.  To me this isn't a garage queen sports car, so I'm happy to use it as my daily.

I plan to run it for the next 3-4 years, and absorb any costs that come up.  Beyond that, we'll see...

It is such a fantastic car, so simple and straightforward to use (no nanny devices and built-in stop/start. suspension menus etc) and reliable :)

 

Same as mine but mine IS a garage queen😭. Went out today in the sunshine and gave it a bit of welly - just to help with potential carbon deposits of course!

I still can't get the grin off my face😁

[Pielight]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:11 AM, Linas.P said:

Yes sadly that is the situation in our country, but paying £695 for IS-F isn't really that bad of deal. IS250 for example is £395 already, later manual ones are £675 as well. You will be paying same for SC430, GS430/460 or any other similar car. And I am using "similar" loosely as IS-F is clearly hotter version of the car. 

Some Jaguars and Aston Martins are the only ones that have slight lower tax (must be some good old British favouritism), but apart of that you will be paying similar price for most of cars with V8.   

It seems almost too good to be true that the road tax of my August 2017 GSF has just dropped to £180 per year...the same as my wife's 900cc Renault captur! Had it been pre April 2017 registered it would be £695 for life. 

It was pure luck as I had no idea about this when I bought the car.

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, Pielight said:

It seems almost too good to be true that the road tax of my August 2017 GSF has just dropped to £180 per year...the same as my wife's 900cc Renault captur! Had it been pre April 2017 registered it would be £695 for life. 

It was pure luck as I had no idea about this when I bought the car.

That was one of the reason why I wanted to trade my RC up-to LC500 at the start of covid, because many of 2018 LCs are now turning 5 years and £180 tax. Could have sorned it for 2 years and then went directly into £180 year tax 😄 

[DamianLEX]

But LC500 2 years ago the cheapest 5.0 were for like £55000.

Now you can easily take one for £42-£45k if negotiate hard. That would not justify higher road tax. 

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, DamianLEX said:

But LC500 2 years ago the cheapest 5.0 were for like £55000.

Now you can easily take one for £42-£45k if negotiate hard. That would not justify higher road tax. 

VED is calculated on the list price for the car when first registered not current market price

[DamianLEX]

I meant prices of used cars decreased so much recently that there was no point keeping LC500 purchased 2 years ago to make any savings really.

 

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, DamianLEX said:

I meant prices of used cars decreased so much recently that there was no point keeping LC500 purchased 2 years ago to make any savings really.

 

It matters not what one pays for a second hand car, it's the list price when new that determines the VED

[Linas.P]

8 hours ago, DamianLEX said:

But LC500 2 years ago the cheapest 5.0 were for like £55000.

Now you can easily take one for £42-£45k if negotiate hard. That would not justify higher road tax. 

2 years ago - yes, but not in 2020 - when I was looking to trade-up in January 2020 the LC500 had already went just under £40,000. And compared to today they were real low mileage cars, most of the cars had almost delivery miles like - 1000, 2000, 6000 etc. Obviously, those cars for ~£40,000 back then were all 2017, whereas I wanted 2018 car for the tax reasons. And the reason I didn't trade-up was first of all because Lexus really wanted to low ball me on PX, secondly because there were simply no "high-mileage" 2018 cars around in the spec I wanted (ideally either non-Sport or Sport+ black, with red interior). 

So what I wanted was as high-mileage and as cheap LC as it could be, if they had 2018 car with 60k miles on it for say £35,000 (the price was realistic back then), then it would have been the one I wanted. I think there were few 2017 cars offered privately with like 40k miles, for just under £40,000, but what Lexus had were all 2018 cars with low miles and starting at £48,000, I think that was the cheapest one they had offered me, yellow with black interior with 8k miles (which I was not fan of anyway), the other car they had was literally "delivery miles" (like 800) dark blue with black interior for £52,000. The dark blue I kind of considered, but when they put the proposal together they basically wanted me to finance £44,000... meaning they have valued my RC at £8,000 and I still had like £6,000 to pay for outstanding finance on it (can't blame them considering I paid £15,500 for it!). My offer was closer to £36,000 and I wanted them to put my car at £16,000 (basically get my money back on RC which as many would know I hated). We probably could have moved by £1,000-2,000 + service plan, but not by £10,000. And obviously then covid kicked in and I seen same Blue car listed at £68,000 last year with 12,000 miles on it. But at the same time I sold my RC for £19,000 in 2021, so I think financially I am in better position now backing out of that deal. In best case scenario, the same if I could negotiate the price down. But not sure how realistic is to sell £60,000+ car privately for cash, I already struggled to sell £19,000 car for like 8 months, so for even more expensive car it would have been near impossible.