Official New 2006 Is Topic

[Kremmen]

And did the typical IS200 owner buy their car instead of a German brand just because it was less expensive?

Sort of

Bought mine because it was 'affordable quality', anything over £25k including auto and metallic for me isn't. Plus I don't expect to lose options next time around. Don't mind losing the sunroof because I never use it but going back to manual seats, no parking sensors option, etc.

I would like to change to the IS250 in 2-3 years time but I can't afford it in the spec I would require. In my opinion the SE is too basic and the SE-L has many features I don't need. I probably need to opt for the SE with what I want as options.

I know you have advance orders but I wonder how many will be forced to cancel when they learn the price ? The IS200 is currently the best selling model and there is a reason for that.

As a dealer you must have sales info with regard to numbers of units sold. Imagine now if the IS200 was not available and the IS300 was the starting model. How would that affect numbers of buyers ? What percentage of customers would not even approach the salesroom ?

[UKPulse]

My local Lexus dealer called me yesterday to remind me that my car will be three years old next March. Huh? Why are they telling me this? Then the patter starts... there's a new model IS due out, would I like details? Would I like to drive it when it's available? Would I like to come in and discuss figures for trading in my IS300 when the time comes?

I bought an IS in 2001 and another in 2003, and persuaded my father-in-law to buy a GS earlier this year. On every occasion, the dealer took a very 'passive' stance, they provided the test drives, the specs, the costs, but never actively tried selling the cars. Now they seem different. Maybe the higher take-up/advance orders are the result of a much more agressive selling approach being taken by the company?

[Lexxy_703]

Erm....

The new IS250 isn't £3-4k more than the old IS300...  It is if you load it up, but the SE with the auto box is pretty similar, with the exception of the HID lamps and the auto dimming mirrors, but the new car has lots in its favour too....

Both approx 200 bhp too....

←

hmmm...ok my little squinty eyed, furry friend - i'll give you that one! :P

i was looking at the SE-L, but i suppose the SE is nearest to the 300 spec, less a few things as you mention. BUT, even with an SE spec'd up to what i've got now, it's still £1,400 MORE than i paid for mine 2 years ago

performance is pretty similar on paper - i'll have to have a little play for real before i can say for certain tho'.

can i ask 1 thing? - on the satnav, instead of this all singing, all dancing thing that's an option now, couldn't there just be a 'basic' satnav like i've got now? i don't really want one with all the whistles n bells but i would prefer a factory one as oppose to an after-market 'bolt-on'. just a thought... :)

i notice that the 250 is now THE IS model on the lexus website - bye bye our version... :o

Abbie

[andy_hants]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I've been looking forward to finding out the prices for the IS 250. Like many, I was suprised about the lack of individual option choices. However I called my local Lexus dealer today, and was told that sat nav would be available as a separate option and not only within a package with audio upgrade, rear camera etc.

So maybe the option choices have changed to those on the Preliminary Bulletin linked to previously on here. I hope so as I would only like leather and sat nav as options, but to get this would cost an extra £5710 (25% of the cost of the car !), and I'm not prepared to pay this.

Andy

[The Mole]

Hey! Less of the squinty eyes!

All of our confirmed orders are aware of the price. One or two may not go ahead, but this is the case with any new model. We genuinely haven’t had a negative response to the pricing.

You say that the SE is too basic? Apart from the sunroof, it has more spec than the old model... If you only wanted parking sensors as an add on, we, and most other dealers would be happy to fit these to an SE model when the car arrives at the dealer.

With regard to how many people would have bought the IS300 if it was the only model available is a good point, but please remember, it was only available in auto, so that is 60% of the manual customers gone, it was not as economical as the IS200, so there goes a few more, and also, it was not available in a reduced spec at a lower price. Therefore, if it was available from £23 upwards, and in a manual, and did 30+ mpg, and was group 13 insurance, then yes, we'd have sold plenty. And that is where the new car is....

As for volumes - Lexus had their best year ever last year with approx 6,000 IS units sold. The diesel car alone will double that in 2006, so volume really isn't a worry at this stage.

I'm glad to hear that other dealers are contacting customers to tell them about the new model, at least they are taking an active interest, rather than a take it or leave it attitude. We would never like to think that this was considered aggressive though? All the people I have spoken to so far are really keen, and appreciate that we have taken the time to contact them....

I do take on board your comments about having the various spec items grouped together though. Bare in mind though, as soon as you offer too many stand alone options, every car ends up having to be a 4 month custom factory order from Japan. Remember the last time you bought a Merc or BMW? Lexus try to stop waiting lists for cars - part of their customer service thing. It's tough trying to strike the correct balance.

Not sure where your dealer has got his info from Andy, but officail specs where released today that are identical to those published originally. sat nav is only part of the multi media pack. Sorry.

Now excuse me whilst I go and comb my fur....

[Tailpipe]

As for volumes - Lexus had their best year ever last year with approx 6,000 IS units sold.

←

Mole,

Please check your facts. Lexus actually had its best year for the IS in 2001 when it sold 10,823 cars. In 2004, it sold 7,092. My figures, from Automotive News Europe, reflect sales data for the whole of Europe. I assume yours do too, because there is no way that Lexus sold 6,000 IS models in the UK alone.

I make this point not to beat you up - your inside view is much appreciated - but to make the important point that the current Lexus IS model was only ever a niche product. It never had a wide enough appeal to capture significant share from BMW, Audi and Honda, the leaders in Europe by quite a margin. With BMW selling almost 265,000 cars in 2004 of the old 3-Series in Europe, Lexus has a long way to go to catch up.

So, it is absolutely appropriate that the new IS is a radical departure from the existing model. It offers so much more to make it a better car, that anyone who has owned a competitive brand can clealry see why they needed to charge more. I am disappointed but the new IS is more expensive than the outgoing model, but I still think it is very much worth the extra cost. I've done the sums, the new IS is still cheaper than an equivalent spec of Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

Everything hinges on how well it drives. It only needs to out-handle the A4 and Lexus will have a winner on their hands. I am itching to drive the thing.

[The Mole]

Tailpipe,

I agree with your last coments, however, I am talking UK figures alone, figures that are not published directly.

The 2001 figures you quote are for total unit sales, not IS alone.

I am not at liberty to quote exact UK figures, but I can assure you they are close to the mark. The VAST majority of European IS sales were in the UK. Mainly because the rest of Europe are on diesel / German bias.

Anyway, yes, can't wait to drive it.... rear wheel drive should sort the A4 out surely?

[daveo1]

Can our resident Mole comment on the discount we can expect from dealers from the List Price on the IS 250 compared with the fairly minimal discounts available on the IS 2OO.

Would around 4% or so be close to the mark or does each dealership make its own rules ?

Sorry for my ignorance :duh:

[Lexxy_703]

Can our resident Mole comment on the discount we can expect from dealers from the List Price on the IS 250 compared with the fairly minimal discounts available on the IS 2OO.

Would around 4% or so be close to the mark or does each dealership make its own rules ?

Sorry for my ignorance :duh:

←

awww, come on 'Moley' - i can't wait for your reply on this one!! i think dave maybe (unintentionally) having a larf surely no discount will be available on a brand new model that's in demand???

come on furry, out your hole..... (that sounds soooo rude, but i won't comment further! )

Abbie

[daveo1]

awww, come on 'Moley' - i can't wait for your reply on this one!! i think dave maybe (unintentionally) having a larf        surely no discount will be available on a brand new model that's in demand??? 

The main reason i ask Abbie is that i got about a 4% discount on a new IS 200 in both Mar '00( a few months after its release) and Mar '03 and wondered whether i'd get a similar discount in Mar '06 as i'm an established and VERY GOOD customer

[The Mole]

Sniff, scratch, scrape..... who left that flymo there!

Oh boy.... discounts! One big ugly monster you know, and one that could run and run and run, so this is is my one and only comment on the matter as I can't afford any more therapy.

To save this reply lasting 10 pages, I'll have to get to the point.

A dealer will only reduce the price of a car if he is unable to sell it at the full price.

Basic rules of economics.

Lexus allocate a certain number of cars to each dealer per quarter, per year, per model. This is based on the size of the dealer and the size of the area they sell into.

Using our dealer as a case study (most dealers are in a similar position), We know that already we have confirmed orders (who know the price) for more than half of this years supply. At the rate we are selling them, this supply will be exhausted way before the launch in November. Therefore there is no need to discount the car. With the diesel coming next April and taking a large percentage of sales due to the fleet market, the situation shouldn't change...

So basically, there will be no need to discount until dealers have cars sitting there that they cannot sell. And that could be a long way away.

Your suggested figure of 4% is very large, and somthing that I only ever saw once or twice on the current IS200 as we were selling the last few cars, and even then we were still able to sell many of them at the full price.

Lexus really aren't about discounts, and history shows that the vast majority of Lexus owners did not buy their car because it was discounted, but because it is a good car and we offered great service.

I'm in a very awkward position here and really don't want to get caught up in a huge debate about something that I feel very strongly about, so I best leave this one alone.

Now, which hole to scamper down before the shotgun fires...

[javadude]

The Lexus web-site seems to have more info on the new IS now.... new IS.

OK perhaps someone else has already mention this and I'm late...

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Hadn't seen this before:

"Lexus's first ever diesel, the IS 220d is available in UK Lexus Centres from January 2006"

Thought it was March.

[djanderso]

I see specifications are now confirmed too - I still maintain that the price versus spec is too high, but we'll see how it suceeds...

[Tailpipe]

djanderso,

We just hope they add the IS350 to this soon.

I notice that your old IS200 was the best car you ever owned, does this mean you'll be buying the new one?

[javadude]

Wow just realised that the IS250 SE is the same price as a 350Z. 3.5ltr engine, 0-60 in 5.9 secs and better styling. OK so they're different kinds of car and I'd have a job fitting the kids in one but if that wasn't a factor I know which I'd go for. Hmmm not that I've got that kinda money anyway.

[Damer]

Wow just realised that the IS250 SE is the same price as a 350Z. 3.5ltr engine, 0-60 in 5.9 secs and better styling. OK so they're different kinds of car and I'd have a job fitting the kids in one but if that wasn't a factor I know which I'd go for. Hmmm not that I've got that kinda money anyway.

←

Agree for what they are now going to be looking for a New IS there is a lot of choice. I also like the look of the 350Z except as with only two seats never get the kids in it.

[djanderso]

Yup, the IS200 is still the best car I have ever owned, as although not out and out fast, it could hold it's own, was comfortable, good looking, fully loaded (how times have changed, eh, Lexus), and just a general all round great car!

The 350Z on the other hand is a fantastic car too, in a different way, it's brutally fast, not that you'd know it though as the power is fed in a linear fashion, but a glance at the speedo, and you realise it's going seriously fast.

If it wasn't for the pending child on the way I'd be keeping the Z, but sadly it has to go soon - I was holding out for the IS250, but as I've documented already on this thread - I'm not prepared to pay Lexus what they want now for it.

[autobeach]

I guess most of this is aimed at The Mole.

To kick off, I've enjoyed the whole 'Lexus Experience' since I bought my IS over 3 years ago; excellent car, a bit slow, a bit thirsty.

I like the look of the IS250 (inside and out) and think that Lexus should do well with the model - especially since the new 3 series is so dull/ bad/ ugly inside and out.

However, I have a few concerns. Namely, it seems to be pitched slightly more expensive than I would have expected, the Sat Nav/ sound system at close on £3K is steep (I'll happily pay 1.5K for Sat nav and keep the standard sound system which will be impressive enough !). And what does the dash look like if you don't buy the Sat Nav ?

I'm also concerned at how lardy the new car is 80-90Kg more than the equivalent Beemer, and the quoted acceleration figures from Lexus are very worrying at 8.4 secs (0-62, BMW325 is 7.0) from a >200 bhp engine? This type of car should be able to easily cruise past 'lesser' vehicles without straining it's V6 lump. I'll wait for the car mags to figure the new car - definitely a key point for me.

As others have posted, ticking a few boxes on the options list will take me to the £30K mark - at the very top end of what I'm willing to pay for a car, also into the realms of some very nice, under warranty M3's.

[The Mole]

Evenin' all.....

Did a little research today with reference to spec vrs price vrs competition.

Some think the IS250 SE spec is too basic

Some think the car is too expensive

Some think it is no longer better value than the competition.

I take it we would all agree that a reasonable competitor would be a BMW325i SE Manual....?

BMW325i SE Basic price £25,525 - more expensive before we start.

Extras to bring it up to the same spec of a standard IS250 SE are:-

Leather - £1,220

CD autochanger - £295

Climate comfort screen - £230

Comfort Access - £430

17" alloys - £435

Folding Mirrors - £165

Electric fromt memory seats - £890

Floor mats! - £75

Heated front seats - £260

Headlamp wash system - £185

Lumbar support front seats - £195

Front armrest - £110

Grand total £30,015.......

Vrs £25,400.....

A saving of £4,615 !!!!!

If you want a BMW sunroof or metallic, that will make the difference even bigger as their extras are more expensive too.

Don't even start on the SE-L spec - same story there.

Merc C230, over £3,800 more expensive

Audi A4 2.0FSi, over £2,400 more expensive

And when you come to sell those cars, theres a lot of extras to lose money on.

Therefore:- Better equipped, better value.

All the extra equipment I guess makes it a bit heavier. Wonder what a BMW325i would weigh with all those expensive options and how much slower it would be?

Also, the auto BMW is 0.7 sec slower than the manual.

Lexus isn't all about speed though is it, I mean, we could spend all night playing top trumps with tech data.... e.g. Lexus is quieter, more aerodynamic and statistically better quality for instance - all depends what you are lookng for.

M

[saracen]

Mole, thanks for the information but the BMW sunroof is £675 and the Lexus is £800.

On the whole though you are right, the other comparable models, Audi, BMW and Mercedes are all more expensive than any of their equivalent Lexus trim levels. And the thing that makes them more expensive is when you start to add up the cost of the options.

HOWEVER the thing to remember is that BMW et al give you a list of options so for example I could have an automatic diesel with leather. Something that Lexus have omitted in their line up. In my opinion I think there new price structure is a mistake and is also very frustrating.

Having said that I have just had a GS300 SE for 24 hours (while my car was being serviced). The car was very powerful and the two things that did it for me were how smooth the car was, the car is very quiet too. And secondly the technology that is in the car is amazing:

Smart Entry - v. cool

Bluetooth - great

Ventilated seats - to keep your bits cool!

Sat Nav - the best there is

Plus a host of other cool things that make me think that this is one of the best cars there is. When I returned the car I was raving about the how great it was and I was told that a lot of the new technology will either be carried over to the IS or the IS will have an improved version of it (for example the new Sat Nav).

Back in March I put a deposit down for an IS but with some of the things that have been said I was starting to have second thoughts but I now think that the IS is going to be a phenomenal car and I will following up on my initial deposit and picking up a new IS250 SE-L with Sat Nav and Auto in March next year.

[Bobski]

Bit bored with all the talk on this thread TBH.

Im voting in the "i think its overpriced" dept too..... mebe I'll go for a 2nd hand 12 month old and under £18k

Also still unsure if i actually like the thing anyways..........If not ..........i do like the new GS. :)

Aside from that have we any more info on things like......

Insurance groups?

Security?

MPG figures?

if it has better alloy wheels that wont end up being changed more often than the tyres?

If it has paint that will stay on the car?

Does it have HID lamps?

And how long before ppl start grey imprting the 350!

[LeedsLad]

And what does the dash look like if you don't buy the Sat Nav ?

Looks better with Nav in place...

[autobeach]

Thanks LeedsLad, actually look OK without SatNav - I had visions of some plastic cover where tha SatNav display was supposed to be!

The Mole. I'm not playing Trumps, I'm considering spending the thick end of £30K on a car, one of my criteria will be it's performance - can the Lexus 'walk the talk', after all, there's a Sport model, it has dual exhausts, it's RWD, the direct competition is BMW. One frustration I have with my current car is it's lack of performance. Here are some figures from Autocar for an old 323Ci convertible.

top/ 0-60/ bhp/ torque/ weight/ date

137/ 8.2/ 170/ 181/ 1669/ June2000

So an old Beemer, with less power, less torque, 100Kg heavier has equivalent performance to Lexus' latest. Not good reading - maybe BMW's horses are more potent. Hopefully, Lexus are being very conservative thus far with their claimed figures.

[Parthiban]

Having thought about this for a bit, I don't really think the actual pricing of the new IS is that crazy after all. I like my car's fully loaded, and when you consider an IS250SEL with everything, it still costs less than any rival with that spec. :D

However, I do understand what everyone is talking about, as the options are very irritating if you don't want 'everything'. If you're happy with the spec of the SE, but want parking sensors, you can't have them. Also if you want satnav, but are not bothered with the DVD changer or the Mark Levinson sound, you can't have that either. These are points that I don't think will really bother the sales figures of the car, but silly nonetheless. :duh:

The final question I want to ask is to all those that are currently complaining about the car being overpriced is:

"If Lexus had decided to also add an IS200 to the lineup (which seems would of been priced similarly to the current one), would we be having this discussion?" :P