Lexus RZ revealed

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, northpolar said:

surely a minimum for a new entry to the market at this level should now be targeting 350+ miles and/ or stronger performance?

Apart from the £120k EQS and the hand built £150k Lucid air no EV can do 350miles+, and in winter 300mile is pushing it even in those cars.

[talaipwros]

5 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

Apart from the £120k EQS and the hand built £150k Lucid air no EV can do 350miles+, and in winter 300mile is pushing it even in those cars.

fair enough, but the iX1 has same power and acceleration, has about 70 miles more range and costs about 10-15K less. Not sure they have priced the RZ right.

 

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/bmw-i/iX1/2022/bmw-ix1-highlights.html#technical-data

[Boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, ganzoom said:

Apart from the £120k EQS and the hand built £150k Lucid air no EV can do 350miles+, and in winter 300mile is pushing it even in those cars.

The Tesla LR models have been doing that range, if you want them to.

For considerably less money.

[First_Lexus]

47 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

The Tesla LR models have been doing that range, if you want them to.

For considerably less money.

The Skoda Enyaq too, albeit the familiar issue for me with an EV is demonstrated by the Skoda range calculator. Fine in the Summer in city driving, but change that to Winter and what they call ‘highway’ (assume motorway) and you lose so much range…

With the RZ starting with less range in the first place, it could really struggle against the competition given the price. Feels like a niche choice for those who want luxury and exclusivity without having to drive longer distances.

[northpolar]

Toyota is one of if not the wealthiest car manufacturer on the planet.  They have resisted entering the BEV market, concentrating instead on hybrids and more recently plug in hybrids.

I appreciate that one of toyota's hallmarks is their conservative approach to technology and I am sure there has been a vast amount of research undertaken to develop safe and reliable Battery technology.

The problem I perceive is that there is a strong residual range anxiety in the UK due to the unreliable/ inadequate public infrastructure.  It seems very strange to me that Toyota could consider it acceptable to launch the BZ and RZ models without hitting at least the upper range bands and charging speeds being offered by competitors.  I don't think power/ performance is such a big deal, but range (and weight) is going to be the key differentiator as the Battery tech develops.  Build quality/ luxury fittings/ pleasant dealers will count for many customers, but I certainly will not be one of them until the fundamental differentiator of BEVs is significantly improved by Toyota group.

Peter

[ganzoom]

12 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

The Tesla LR models have been doing that range, if you want them to.

For considerably less money.

You wouldn't get 350 miles range in any Tesla without hypermilling. But overall you are right, other EVs offer much better value than the RZ.

[wivenhoe]

With a 10% larger battery of 77kw the Genesis GV60 (smaller car) the range calculator for 80%  motorways goes from 207 miles at -10c to 248 miles at 20c. 80%  City goes from 312 at -10c to 371 at 20c. 
Genesis are to Hyundai as Lexus is to Toyota so the fit, finish and quality should be similar to the RZ. They are offering the GV 70 SUV for deliveries next year at very similar pricing as the RZ - Sport (only option available at launch) starts at £ 65k and optioned similar to a Takumi circa £ 72k - it’s as if Lexus have used this as a baseline !

[Boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, ganzoom said:

You wouldn't get 350 miles range in any Tesla without hypermilling. But overall you are right, other EVs offer much better value than the RZ.

As I said, if you want them to…….normal running around in our EV gets us generally an average of 3.4 Mp/kw, on a Motorway at a genuine 60 mph we get 4.6 Mp/kw which is give or take 25% more range.

 

[ganzoom]

54 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

on a Motorway at a genuine 60 mph we get 4.6 Mp/kw which is give or take 25% more range.

Am not sure anyone would consider 60mph 'normal' at M way speeds. Add in winter, rain, wind blowing in the wrong direction we (EV owners) all know the truth on range. I've seen close to 1.5 miles per kWh is torrential rain when on the M25.

Going around pretending EVs can do 350miles+ on a car with no issues like any combustion car can is not really helpful for anyone.

[fourbanks]

isn't this car the same as the Toyota that has now been withdrawn because of wheel failure ?

[Boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

Am not sure anyone would consider 60mph 'normal' at M way speeds. Add in winter, rain, wind blowing in the wrong direction we (EV owners) all know the truth on range. I've seen close to 1.5 miles per kWh is torrential rain when on the M25.

Going around pretending EVs can do 350miles+ on a car with no issues like any combustion car can is not really helpful for anyone.

Where did I say 60 mph was "normal" Motorway Speed?  I said that's the speed we prefer to use on the Motorway as it doesn't eat into the range much and keeps us comfortably ready to overtake trucks if needed, we find it far more relaxing. The average winter temperature in the UK is around 8C so well above the usual Winter temps quoted in range calculations, we are very lucky being in the UK as we get neither extremes (usually 😄) .

I have NEVER seen less than 3.2 mp/kw journey average in any conditions, what EV do you have an Audi?

 

I was giving my honest experiences with our i3, if you read that I said all EVs can do 350+ miles your reading the wrong thread!

[First_Lexus]

3 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

Where did I say 60 mph was "normal" Motorway Speed?  I said that's the speed we prefer to use on the Motorway as it doesn't eat into the range much and keeps us comfortably ready to overtake trucks if needed, we find it far more relaxing.

^^ Have to be honest, even in a non-EV I tend to set my cruise control on the motorway to 70mph (so about 65mph in reality) and do find it a far more relaxing experience than dashing about. That might be my age showing and the RX experience…mind you, I was never a fast driver at any age! If any members are ever behind a white RX that always observes the speed limit then that’ll be me!

Where there are groups of lorries I can then - as you say - go faster for a short period in order to get around them quickly and safely.

[Boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

^^ Have to be honest, even in a non-EV I tend to set my cruise control on the motorway to 70mph (so about 65mph in reality) and do find it a far more relaxing experience than dashing about. That might be my age showing and the RX experience…mind you, I was never a fast driver at any age! If any members are ever behind a white RX that always observes the speed limit then that’ll be me!

Where there are groups of lorries I can then - as you say - go faster for a short period in order to get around them quickly and safely.

Thank you, at last another “admittor” 😄 , exactly that, on ours it is a true 63 mph which lets us stay in the inside lane until we approach trucks then a quick and fast squirt and we are around them, with usually a acknowledgment flash of our signal to turn in again.

 

I did enough racing around, quite literally when young and during my career it was tearing around in prototypes and suchlike trying to break them usually, nowadays it is nice to relax and let others take the strain.

 

ps, if I come across an RX overtaking me by 3 mph I’ll give you a wave 🤣

 

 

[Kevin Williams]

I completed the online pre-order for an RZ yesterday evening. I received an email from my preferred Lexus Dealer at 22.14. Obviously an automatic email. I arranged a phone call for 10.00am this morning. The sales guy answered my questions without any difficulties. I paid the £500 and I was advised it should arrive in March 2023. I am happy to wait until then. I have had several electric cars. I think the Lexus RZ will be a great car. Reading some of these posts many people think the same. Range isn’t a problem with me, its quality and personal choice that is more important. I drive only a little because of a serious accident. Some weeks recently I have cycled more miles on my Gocycle…! The best car I have owned was an LS 400 in 2001. I have recently owned two LC 500’s. A Coupe and a Convertible. I also had an SC430 in 2001. It’s a long wait but I look forward to owning an RZ. Being completely honest I was thinking of buying a Taycan Cross Turismo. The Taycan 4S that I have previously owned was good, but expensive, being in my garage too much…! I think the RZ will be a better car for me.

When my builders empty my side garage. I will be buying an LS 400 to drive occasionally.

I recently endeavoured to buy a Genesis GV60 Sport. I thought Genesis might be the luxury brand for Hyundai, as Lexus is for Toyota. I also thought having a Genesis Personal Assistant would be good for me… How wrong I was… I received a personal email from the MD of Genesis UK apologising for their failings…

Forum’s, are for people to tell the truth…!

 

MY23 NG RZ Colours and interior[1].pdf

[First_Lexus]

I said a while ago that my family member had ordered an RZ with expected delivery before March 2023 ordered June 2022.

That’s going to be cancelled. Lexus have contacted today to say earliest availability for an RZ will now be September 2023!

Very odd. Seems like an own goal as potential owners are now being pushed to other brands. Madness. Not what you expect from a ‘premium’ brand. Very much behind the curve here as others have mentioned.

Likely we will buy a Huyndai / KIA / Volvo instead.

[Kevin Williams]

15 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I said a while ago that my family member had ordered an RZ with expected delivery before March 2023 ordered June 2022.

That’s going to be cancelled. Lexus have contacted today to say earliest availability for an RZ will now be September 2023!

Very odd. Seems like an own goal as potential owners are now being pushed to other brands. Madness. Not what you expect from a ‘premium’ brand. Very much behind the curve here as others have mentioned.

Likely we will buy a Huyndai / KIA / Volvo instead.

Yes. Madness...! I will speak to Lexus Exeter in the morning. If I am also advised September 2023. That will be informed of another 6 months in 48 hours... I thought Lexus was better than Genesis...! 

[wivenhoe]

My dealer said weeks ago that they had been told no demos until June and delivery from July but likely September.  

[John Adams]

My dealer told me yesterday that production was due to start this November however due to supply issues has been put back to March 23. He said customer deliveries are due to start late summer so it looks like it will be September at the earliest.  If so, they will have had my deposit for 16 months. Just think of the amount of interest I have lost and they have gained over the 16 months!!

I assume the 72k for the Takumi will not increase for deliveries then. Perhaps that's why they have priced it so high.

[royoftherovers]

34 minutes ago, John Adams said:

My dealer told me yesterday that production was due to start this November however due to supply issues has been put back to March 23. He said customer deliveries are due to start late summer so it looks like it will be September at the earliest.  If so, they will have had my deposit for 16 months. Just think of the amount of interest I have lost and they have gained over the 16 months!!

I assume the 72k for the Takumi will not increase for deliveries then. Perhaps that's why they have priced it so high.

How much was your deposit John 

[wivenhoe]

Deposit is £ 500 fully returnable  after a test drive proves unacceptable or before. I doubt £ 500 over 18 months would return more than say £ 20 !!

I think the car market will be in an entirely different place next year and so hoping a discount may be available !

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

Deposit is £ 500 fully returnable  after a test drive proves unacceptable or before. I doubt £ 500 over 18 months would return more than say £ 20 !!

I think the car market will be in an entirely different place next year and so hoping a discount may be available !

I doubt anything approaching within peanut distance of £20 John.

I hope you are right about the car market, tho` I suspect that a buoyant market will not lead to a discount on the NX like falling NX Sales would !

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

How much was your deposit John 

£500. I was only kidding about the interest though which I know is virtually nothing.

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, wivenhoe said:

Deposit is £ 500 fully returnable  after a test drive proves unacceptable or before. I doubt £ 500 over 18 months would return more than say £ 20 !!

I think the car market will be in an entirely different place next year and so hoping a discount may be available !

Tongue was firmly in cheek with my comment on lost interest!

[Kevin Williams]

I have just rung the only Lexus Dealer in Devon @ Exeter. Where I have ordered my Takumi from… The guy I spoke to said if another person rang and ordered an RZ today… The latest information we have from Lexus is that it would be a March 2023 delivery, the same delivery date as mine…!

I do hope Lexus aren’t becoming another Genesis…! My dealings with Genesis were pathetic. Miserably inadequate and of a very low standard.

 

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, Kevin Williams said:

I have just rung the only Lexus Dealer in Devon @ Exeter. Where I have ordered my Takumi from… The guy I spoke to said if another person rang and ordered an RZ today… The latest information we have from Lexus is that it would be a March 2023 delivery, the same delivery date as mine…!

I do hope Lexus aren’t becoming another Genesis…! My dealings with Genesis were pathetic. Miserably inadequate and of a very low standard.

 

So Lexus Exeter are giving different stories to different customers. Interesting.