Research shows it costs more to run an EV on long journeys

[Linas.P]

20 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Don’t get me started! Not just the monarchy, but the various religious organisations too. Lots of pontificating (no pun intended) about the poor and how society could be improved while sitting on billions of pounds/dollars/euros of assets that would go a long way to solving the very problems they say they’re so concerned about! Politicians are generally self-serving wherever they are as well, look at the EU-Qatar corruption scandal or the secondary earnings scandal just breaking in the UK. Leader of the LibDems with a private company for additional earnings in order to avoid tax, Labour politicians with huge payments from Trade Unions and Conservatives with inherited wealth or lucrative second jobs. 

The establishment - whether that be the monarchy, the ruling class, a military dictator or junta, big business, organised religion - will always look after itself. It will never change. Even revolution generally ends badly as one ruling class is simply replaced by a new one, eager to profit from power.

I find it easier now just to ignore the news. It’s better for my blood pressure!

There used to be the joke which I sadly can't tell here as it would be considered anti-Semitic.... but it goes something like that: "when we had previous rulers then they were taking away with one hand and were giving back the change with another hand, when the new rulers came now they take with both hands". I think we can rewords it slightly and it will be close - "take with one hand and punch with another" - there is no giving back part at all.

So that describes situation quite well, some corruption is inevitable, somebody will enrich themselves, but as long as there is some sort of social contract that they should ensure at least some form of decent living standards for the rest I think I can live with some degree of corruption and don't lose mush sleep over it... but the point we are getting to is that we are paying way to much tax, not only it is too much to pay, but they don't even need as much tax... in principle a lot of car related taxes are designed not to raise the funds but literally to discourage and punish! Like that is not enough (paying way too much tax than reasonable in any logic) they as well then goes back and punishes everyone again for actually using the services they have just overcharged for will all this WOKE non-sense BS, carbon limits, taxes etc. So not only we pay taxes, not only we pay too much taxes on top of the taxes we have already paid, not only we are then punished by further taxes, fines and fees, but to top it all off we have to feel like criminals in the end for even using roads, or NHS, or whatever other public service! 

"You know you already robbed me of my money at least leave me alone for once!" I mean literally this is worse than robbers - at least when they rob you, they don't stand around and claim moral-high ground and tell you how to live your life!

[Mr Vlad]

just watched this after it came up duecto algorithm. Really really good. Yes flawed a little but by rubber duck what this fella says is BANG ON 👍👌👏

 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

just watched this after it came up duecto algorithm. Really really good. Yes flawed a little but by rubber duck what this fella says is BANG ON 👍👌👏

 

He pointed out key aspect of all this madness and I was banging on about it for long time as well. Global warming is global problem, yet we apply solution which which only makes our immediate city cleaner. So yes it works for the city, it does not work for the planet and because the problem is global we just shifting the problem without resolving it. 

And yes it is right to say that it is possible to improve CO2 emissions with BEVs... yes it is, if they used in very particular way and they have particular batteries, of particular size and are driven particular number of miles in particular time, then they could be much better. Yet when we apply everything to practice, then not only they provide little to no benefit, but there is as well quite high risk that they create more pollution elsewhere than they reduce in the city.

And second part again, the good explanation of why I keep mentioning long range BEVs and how horrible they are, the CO2 already in the Battery on the day one is way more than some ICEVs lifetime and it requires driving a lot to really offset it. 

Enjoyed the video, general concepts and ideas are right and helps to explain it in layman terms. 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

just watched this after it came up duecto algorithm. Really really good. Yes flawed a little but by rubber duck what this fella says is BANG ON 👍👌👏

 

I did not see anything not correct in what he said.

[Las Palmas]

36 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

He pointed out key aspect of all this madness and I was banging on about it for long time as well. Global warming is global problem, yet we apply solution which which only makes our immediate city cleaner. So yes it works for the city, it does not work for the planet and because the problem is global we just shifting the problem without resolving it. 

And yes it is right to say that it is possible to improve CO2 emissions with BEVs... yes it is, if they used in very particular way and they have particular batteries, of particular size and are driven particular number of miles in particular time, then they could be much better. Yet when we apply everything to practice, then not only they provide little to no benefit, but there is as well quite high risk that they create more pollution elsewhere than they reduce in the city.

And second part again, the good explanation of why I keep mentioning long range BEVs and how horrible they are, the CO2 already in the battery on the day one is way more than some ICEVs lifetime and it requires driving a lot to really offset it. 

Enjoyed the video, general concepts and ideas are right and helps to explain it in layman terms. 

What he said was spot on. He was kind not to mention the leftover from dead batteries and also did not say that most of these are made in China, but that is not a problem. Many of the things that are positive with hydrogen can be found here:

Still, so many think that it is completely stupid just to think about hydrogen.

I do not know how our idiotic politicians will get their problems with chosing one horse only out of the fire, maybe they will succeed convincing most of the voter that what they did was right. I would not be surprised. Somebody said that if you take a serious talk with the average voter, you will understand the problems with democracy.

[Mr Vlad]

I saw two videos today from the same poster. First video was of a Nissan Note he bought cheap. A 40kw Battery and 10 years old car. Battery had degraded to 66% capacity. The video I saw was where he filled it as full as possible with electricity and then drive it at 70mph till it was oh so near dead. 54 miles he got.

Anyway the other was with the Toyota Mirai hydrogen car to see how long it took to fill with hydrogen. 4 mins 35 seconds to fill it with near 5kg of hydrogen. It cost him 60 sommat dollars. 64 I think. I'm not sure what I think of that. But there again 64 dollars, what's that about 65 quid? to do 400 miles. That's ruddy good I'd say.

In America it looks like there's quite a lot of hydrogen fill up stations and that a lot of them make the hydrogen on site. Now I wonder how much one of those hydrogen making units cost to make and set up to run.

[Mr Vlad]

found it 

 

[Las Palmas]

18 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

I saw two videos today from the same poster. First video was of a Nissan Note he bought cheap. A 40kw battery and 10 years old car. Battery had degraded to 66% capacity. The video I saw was where he filled it as full as possible with electricity and then drive it at 70mph till it was oh so near dead. 54 miles he got.

Anyway the other was with the Toyota Mirai hydrogen car to see how long it took to fill with hydrogen. 4 mins 35 seconds to fill it with near 5kg of hydrogen. It cost him 60 sommat dollars. 64 I think. I'm not sure what I think of that. But there again 64 dollars, what's that about 65 quid? to do 400 miles. That's ruddy good I'd say.

In America it looks like there's quite a lot of hydrogen fill up stations and that a lot of them make the hydrogen on site. Now I wonder how much one of those hydrogen making units cost to make and set up to run.

The new Mirai is supposedly able to go 1000km (621 miles) on a tank. Toyota claim that. Price for hydrogen will go down when more filling stations are available.

[NemesisUK]

15 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Price for hydrogen will go down when more filling stations are available.

Right up until the government increases the tax on it....

[malcolmw]

Although not really "on topic", Car magazine this month has run an extensive test on EVs to see how much the claimed range is degraded in the winter on practical roads with heater/wipers in use.

In summary, almost all (Porsche to Kia) show a 30 to 35% drop from the claimed mileage. Combine this with the type of ageing mentioned above for the batteries on a car a few years old and it doesn't look to enticing to a used car buyer.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

Right up until the government increases the tax on it....

You have a very good point there.

They hate to be proved wrong. But will again and again.

Fortunately, the intelligent voters have a chance to elect some that want to change things just to be elected and rule instead of those that are ruling.

[Las Palmas]

42 minutes ago, malcolmw said:

Although not really "on topic", Car magazine this month has run an extensive test on EVs to see how much the claimed range is degraded in the winter on practical roads with heater/wipers in use.

In summary, almost all (Porsche to Kia) show a 30 to 35% drop from the claimed mileage. Combine this with the type of ageing mentioned above for the batteries on a car a few years old and it doesn't look to enticing to a used car buyer.

On top of that, when a new Battery is needed in order to have a car that has reasonable range, price for a used EV will not be attractive.

 

What happen to old no longer powerful batteries: Recycle???? No!   -   Too expensive   -   Landfill??????? No!   -   Must find some place to hide them.

 

The Battery pack of a Tesla Model S is a feat of intricate engineering. Thousands of cylindrical cells with components sourced from around the world transform lithium and electrons into enough energy to propel the car hundreds of kilometers, again and again, without tailpipe emissions. But when the Battery comes to the end of its life, its green benefits fade. If it ends up in a landfill, its cells can release problematic toxins, including heavy metals. And recycling the Battery can be a hazardous business, warns materials scientist Dana Thompson of the University of Leicester. Cut too deep into a Tesla cell, or in the wrong place, and it can short-circuit, combust, and release toxic fumes.

That's just one of the many problems confronting researchers, including Thompson, who are trying to tackle an emerging problem: how to recycle the millions of electric vehicle (EV) batteries that manufacturers expect to produce over the next few decades. Current EV batteries "are really not designed to be recycled," says Thompson, a research fellow at the Faraday Institution, a research center focused on Battery issues in the United Kingdom.

[Mincey]

EVs are just an environmental ticking time bomb.

[08ISF]

I cannot for the life of me, understand why we are being forced down the electric Battery route when hydrogen seems a better all round solution, not just for cars but for HGV's, aircraft, boats and home heating. The government are paying lip service to investigating hydrogen options, claiming that there are insuperable  problems. Yes, there are problems, but they are technical problems which can be overcome, usually by money.

The problems with the way we are going, are  not only technical, but economic,  and political.

I think the problem is that someone whose interests are best served by the all electric solution is whispering in the politician's ears and since there is not an engineer/physicist/scientist among them, they don't understand, so they just accept what their "advisers" tell them and we end up paying for it.

And don't get me started on why we are not pursuing wave power. An island surrounded by water, subject to reliable tides. Ooh, let me see could we make use of that? No, too difficult, might upset some noisy minority.

[Las Palmas]

49 minutes ago, Mincey said:

EVs are just an environmental ticking time bomb.

Recycling worn out batteries:

The Battery cells are often held together with tough glues that make them difficult to take apart. That has contributed to an economic obstacle: It's often cheaper for battery-makers to buy freshly mined metals than to use recycled materials.

Scientists are working to find out if the electric vehicle (EV) batteries being sold today can be recycled in 2030 and beyond, when thousands of batteries will reach the end of their lives every day. EV batteries come in many designs so to realize direct recycling, battery-producers, recyclers, and researchers need to sort out a host of issues. One is making sure manufacturers label their batteries, so recyclers know what kind of cell they are dealing with—and whether the cathode metals have any value. Given the rapidly changing Battery market, Gaines notes, cathodes manufactured today might not be able to find a future buyer. Recyclers would be "recovering a dinosaur. No one will want the product."

Another challenge is efficiently cracking open EV batteries. Nissan's rectangular Leaf Battery module can take 2 hours to dismantle. Tesla's cells are unique not only for their cylindrical shape, but also for the almost indestructible polyurethane cement that holds them together.

Engineers might be able to build robots that could speed Battery disassembly, but sticky issues remain even after you get inside the cell, researchers note. That's because more glues are used to hold the anodes, cathodes, and other components in place. One solvent that recyclers use to dissolve cathode binders is so toxic that the European Union has introduced restrictions on its use, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency determined last year that it poses an "unreasonable risk" to workers.

"In terms of economics, you've got to disassemble … [and] if you want to disassemble, then you've got to get rid of glues," says Andrew Abbott, a chemist at the University of Leicester and Thompson's adviser.

[dutchie01]

https://www.hydro.com/en-NL/media/news/2022/europes-largest-electric-vehicle-battery-recycling-plant-begins-operations/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YIBSxpIr0keoLmxoqaXIlUoFFu_Zp158pKw1bEHQe0CpjsexeShNOQxoC8j4QAvD_BwE

https://batteriesnews.com/mercedes-benz-subsidiary-licular-leading-e17m-libinfinity-project-battery-recycling/

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/news/recycling-factory-kuppenheim.html

https://www.fortum.com/media/2022/09/fortum-start-battery-recycling-operations-germany-serving-european-ev-automotive-industrys-rising-demand-battery-raw-materials

 

Just 5 minutes of googling gave above result and there is lots more. Seems Battery recycling has turned into big business!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Vlad]

WOW what a subject of recycling the batteries of EV'S. Now that would take mega Watts of electricity to do so there's surely a contradiction in there somewhere. 

I remember a programme on TV a year or 3 ago. An EV specialist down south somewhere, dedicated service to EV'S and only EV'S, where they replaced worn out batteries with new uprated ones. Now the clever thing they did with the old ones was to put them in racking ,can't remember if wired in parallel or series, and use them as a power source to power the garage. How long those old batteries would last till they really gave up the ghost I don't know but I'd reckon a good few years. Maybe by then a reasonably priced method to recycle those batteries would be out there.

[dutchie01]

Vlad, i am not for or against ev, hydro or ice but facts are facts. It is easy to come up with all sorts of arguments that support ones ideas and if these are based on facts all fine but "batteries cannot be recycled" seems a bit off the scale.

the toyota bzx comes with a 10 year or 1 million km warranty on the Battery plus a written statement it will have over 70% of life left after 10 years. Just saying.

 

[Linas.P]

Recycling does not mean no waste. And indeed it may be more environmentally friendly to burry many things than recycle them. For example the recycling we doing at home for paper, plastic and glass is about ~80% pollution of making things from new materials, metals are slightly better ~60%. So for example when it comes to normal recycling we are doing, it is not as much benefit when it comes to greenhouse gases, but more of the benefit that our plastics don't float into the ocean. And obviously that is assuming we religiously separate 3 recyclable plastics out of 9 commonly used, that we wash them and make sure they clean and dry and if we ignore the fact that across UK most of councils just takes recycling and throws it into landfill, because since China closed in ~2016 there is simply nobody interested into actually recycling plastics.

So it is likely the same with car batteries - when they get recycled, it does not mean they actually saves anything on CO2, but that is certainly better than putting them in landfill, then the landfill catches fire and we fight that fire for months. Other quite important thing - we do not have enough lithium. I said that many times and it is fact - people can go and check it. We do not have enough lithium on this planet to replace all the ICEVs with BEVs even once, nevermind continue making them afterwards. So before we find different Battery tech which does not use lithium at all it is inevitable to recycle lithium as that is the only option - even if it pollutes more.

As for hydrogen - at the moment it is NOT cleaner than BEVs with lithium, and the argument is the same as for electricity mix in the world. Only about 30% of electricity is renewable and if we consider making hydrogen using currently the only available process (electrolysis), then that hydrogen will be much dirtier than petrol or diesel, we can make some hydrogen from gas-reforming, but that assumes we continue to extract oil and the amounts are small... so it is simply not viable, because for every ton of hydrogen reformed, 99 tons of oil have to be extracted.

Now... I believe there is solution for this and large wasted opportunity as well. If we build nuclear power plants dedicated to hydrogen production in large scale, the hydrogen made this way would be close to carbon neutral, nuclear power is extremely clean compared to anything else and the only negative is that if you are ruzzian and you ignore safety, then it may go boom.. well or you are Japanese prone for earthquakes and tsunamis... but we in Europe for example are pretty immune to that. We can even start than now, before even building dedicated nuclear plants, because existing nuclear power is working at ~60% efficiency. Basically nuclear reactors can't be quickly turned-up or down and it means they overproduce electricity during the quiet hours with low demand... as result about 40% of electricity produced is wasted as we don't have electrical storage capacity. So here is solution - when demand drops we could start just making hydrogen as a from of energy storage, that energy is waster either way. Whenever it then makes sense to use in cars is questionable... it probably would be more convenient to burn the hydrogen on site to produce electricity... I am just saying we can produce "green" hydrogen we are just not doing it yet!

So basically argument between HEV vs. BEV is that of energy source. Grass eating cyclist vegetables points out that if we make hydrogen using our current energy mix then it will be much worse environmentally than BEVs... and for once they are right! But at the same time they have magical thinking about BEVs, because exactly the same applies to them. And yes - I am sure they are on "green" electricity plan, where others electricity is all dirty and theirs's magically comes from windfarm in Scotland... except life doesn't work that way...

And I guess that is most important point - IT DOES NOT MATTER what we do with cars, they are minor source of pollution, if we want to "save the planet" then we need to look for major sources of pollution, like manufacturing and like energy production. There is no point to switch to BEV or hydrogen, or whatever if they are made in dirty factories and use dirty electricity. We need to change our electrical production from gas, oil and coal (Germany!) to at very least nuclear and then when we have our electricity clean, suddenly pollution drops by 30% everywhere, our manufacturing will be cleaner, our home heating would be cleaner and for once charging our electric cars would be somewhat cleaner. That would actually make difference... not some 0.8-3% saved on car pollution!

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

https://www.hydro.com/en-NL/media/news/2022/europes-largest-electric-vehicle-battery-recycling-plant-begins-operations/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YIBSxpIr0keoLmxoqaXIlUoFFu_Zp158pKw1bEHQe0CpjsexeShNOQxoC8j4QAvD_BwE

https://batteriesnews.com/mercedes-benz-subsidiary-licular-leading-e17m-libinfinity-project-battery-recycling/

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/news/recycling-factory-kuppenheim.html

https://www.fortum.com/media/2022/09/fortum-start-battery-recycling-operations-germany-serving-european-ev-automotive-industrys-rising-demand-battery-raw-materials

 

Just 5 minutes of googling gave above result and there is lots more. Seems battery recycling has turned into big business!

Just found this:

 

This is what can happen when a cell in a Battery is short circuited. Could even happen when recycling the Battery by accident of personnel not educated enough or something else. How easy it will be to get the valuable ingredients out of such a Battery is not for me to comment on.

Look at the size of Battery. How much energy is needed just to carry that extra weight, compared to a gasoline tank full.

[Las Palmas]

13 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Recycling does not mean no waste. And indeed it may be more environmentally friendly to burry many things than recycle them. For example the recycling we doing at home for paper, plastic and glass is about ~80% pollution of making things from new materials, metals are slightly better ~60%. So for example when it comes to normal recycling we are doing, it is not as much benefit when it comes to greenhouse gases, but more of the benefit that our plastics don't float into the ocean. And obviously that is assuming we religiously separate 3 recyclable plastics out of 9 commonly used, that we wash them and make sure they clean and dry and if we ignore the fact that across UK most of councils just takes recycling and throws it into landfill, because since China closed in ~2016 there is simply nobody interested into actually recycling plastics.

So it is likely the same with car batteries - they they get recycled, it does not mean they actually saves anything on CO2, but that is certainly better than putting them in landfill, then the landfill catches fire and we fight that fire for months. Other quite important thing - we do not have enough lithium. I said that many times and it is fact - people can go and check it. We do not have enough lithium on this planet to replace all the ICEVs with BEVs even once, nevermind continue making them afterwards. So before we find different battery tech which does not use lithium at all it is inevitable to recycle lithium as that is the only option - even it it pollutes more.

As for hydrogen - at the moment it is NOT cleaner than BEVs with lithium, and the argument is the same as for electricity mix in the world. Only about 30% of electricity is renewable and if we consider making hydrogen using currently the only available process (electrolysis), then that hydrogen will be much dirtier than petrol or diesel, we can make some hydrogen from gas-reforming, but that assumes we continue to extract oil and the amounts are small... so it is simply not viable, because for every ton of hydrogen reformed, 99 tons of oil have to be extracted.

Now... I believe there is solution for this and large wasted opportunity as well. If we build nuclear power plants dedicated to hydrogen production in large scale, the hydrogen made this way would be close to carbon neutral, nuclear power is extremely clean compared to anything else and the only negative is that if you are ruzzian and you ignore safety, then it may go boom.. well or you are Japanese prone for earthquakes and tsunamis... but we in Europe for example are pretty immune to that. We can even start than now, before even building dedicated nuclear plants, because existing nuclear power is working at ~60% efficiency. Basically nuclear reactors can't be quickly turned-up or down and it means they overproduce electricity during the quiet hours with low demand... as result about 40% of electricity produced is wasted as we don't have electrical storage capacity. So here is solution - when demand drops we could start just making hydrogen as a from of energy storage, that energy is waster either way. Whenever it then makes sense to use in cars is questionable... it probably would be more convenient to burn the hydrogen on site to produce electricity... I am just saying we can produce "green" hydrogen we are just not doing it yet!

So basically argument between HEV vs. BEV is that of energy source. Grass eating cyclist vegetables points out that if we make hydrogen using our current energy mix then it will be much worse environmentally than BEVs... and for once they are right! But at the same time they have magical thinking about BEVs, because exactly the same applies to them. And yes - I am sure they are on "green" electricity plan, where others electricity is all dirty and theirs's magically comes from windfarm in Scotland... except life doesn't work that way...

And I guess that is most important point - IT DOES NOT MATTER what we do with cars, they are minor source of pollution, if we want to "save the planet" then we need to look for major sources of pollution, like manufacturing and like energy production. There is no point to switch to BEV or hydrogen, or whatever if they are made in dirty factories and use dirty electricity. We need to change our electrical production from gas, oil and coal (Germany!) to at very least nuclear and then when we have our electricity clean, suddenly pollution drops by 30% everywhere, our manufacturing will be cleaner, our home heating would be cleaner and for once charging our electric cars would be somewhat cleaner. That would actually make difference... not some 0.8-3% saved on car pollution!

That extra electricity from nuclear production can be stored a very long time without losing anything in hydrogen form. Batteries are fine for phones and laptops and few other things but for transport value of them is negative. Like you mention there is not enough raw material to make batteries enough for the cars and they are as also mentione just a tiny part of energy consumers. Think cargo ships (no do mention cruise ships), size of batteries needed for those will fill a big part of the cargo area for longer distances. We here in the forum are so annoyed about cars being mentioned as polluters, and rightly so, but stupidly defend batteries as power source, though only a very little part of our cars will actually need less power if they were electric powered with batteries than with conventional fuel.

Some places people need to warm their living places and other places air-condition will make life more pleasant and now when Toyota has shown how little a cannister to transport hydrogen weighs, that could be a maybe better solution to transport hydrogen made from the electricity not needed right now, instead of having more and more electric cables in the air or buried in the ground.

Hydrogen is far more energy dense than gasoline and that is something many are forgetting. Latest Mirai has a range of 1000km on 5.6kg hydrogen. If used to heat a well-insulated house it could last rather a long time.

[Las Palmas]

Family in Denmark (right now here on vacation) have told me their gas bill for heating a medium/large size house has tripled since last year.

 

Are rising home heating prices opening the door to hydrogen fuel?

As fossil fuel costs climb, experts are wondering if the time is ripe for greener options.

Though hydrogen fuel is being tested as a home heating option in many places around the world, concerns regarding the cost of this carbon emission-free energy have been considered a barrier until quite recently.

Fossil fuels had been comparatively cheap and affordable, while H2 had been notably costlier.

Rapidly shifting trends are starting to change the way people are looking at hydrogen fuel as a home heating option. It is, after all, becoming far more competitive.  The time may be approaching – or might have already arrived – for ensuring the infrastructure and sourcing is in place both for affordable home heating and to ensure that regional emissions and climate targets are reached.

SoCalGas customers recently received a notice from the California utility’s Senior Vice President and Chief Customer Officer Gillian Wright. In it, she wrote that “There’s no easy way to put this: January bills are likely to be higher than usual.” To explain the higher bills, Wright pointed both to a cold snap that struck the United States, in addition to rising market prices for natural gas, which more than doubled from last month to this month – by 128 percent.

“As a result, SoCalGas residential customers can expect the typical January bill likely to be more than double the typical bill last January, assuming the same amount of natural gas is used,” said Wright’s message.

With natural gas prices rising so quickly, proponents of hydrogen fuel are pointing to their greener option.

SoCalGas was far from the only utility to have issued such a message to their customers.  Across the country – and indeed throughout the Western world, where natural gas prices for home heating are being affected in this way – companies are paying more for energy products and this is passed down to consumers. 

As a result, it is rapidly eroding the cost argument against the use of H2 as a home heating option.

[Mr Vlad]

Bernard. I don't recall saying your anti or pro anything but if I have and its offended you then I apologise. 

I think Safe recycling of batteries is a long way off. I can see it being ruddy expensive. 

Those used batteries still have a reasonable life in them, unless they're really shot, and can be used a huge power banks. They can be charged by unused electricity at low use times of the day for example. 

Dya know what Linas. Have you considered going into politics? I for one would vote for you. Yes we've had our differences but your passion on this subject of all to do with EV you should get into politics to make the 'numpties ' of this country listen and understand. 

When I first heard about hydrogen I was hooked. Then I went off it and I can't think why but now I'm hooked again. Yes it's dirty in its manufacture But it's the way forward because those precious metals etc for batteries are gonna run out quite soon plus they're working on other cleaner ways to make it.

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Dya know what Linas. Have you considered going into politics? I for one would vote for you. Yes we've had our differences but your passion on this subject of all to do with EV you should get into politics to make the 'numpties ' of this country listen and understand. 

That is the biggest problem with politics... only losers and wa**** who are useless at anywhere else goes there to enrich themselves. I would not waste my time with politics as I can get myself better living conditions doing honest day of work and without corruption, misleading people and getting into all that dirt. 

Honest and politician is oxymoron - not only that I don't think I would go very far, but as well it probably just ruin my life... so sad reality is that most of smart people who understand something (not saying I am even one of them) avoid politics as a plague and as result we have numpties (and outright criminals) running our country/ies.

... and yes in my post I forgotten to mention that despite being no better than BEV at the moment... hydrogen at least 10 times more convenient as you can simply refill it in few minutes, store it for long time etc. So the negatives are the same as BEV, but there are much more positives. 

I would not say I am pro-hydrogen, but I certainly would like to see more refill stations for it, I would like to see wider model selection (at the moment we basically only have 3-4) and other thing I hate is when politicians who don't understand crap make decisions of banning something, that is certainly wrong! We should have competitive market where each technology competes on it's own merits, for some hydrogen will be better, for some BEV, for some petrol or even diesel... and everyone would benefit from competition. Now if they going to compel us to go BEV... then where is competition? batteries themselves are probably coming from half-dozen huge manufacturers, they have no incentives to compete (same like petrogiants before)... so even thought we going to have 100BEV models with same Battery suppliers there will be no competition!

[Mr Vlad]

OMG this is ruddy brilliant so much so I've subscribed.