IS300H increase in value

[Colinb623]

Hi all

I've recently noted the private market increase in asking price for the IS300H lately . Has anyone else noted this ? 

Some 2014/2015 plate F sports are just shy of the 20k bracket ..(euros)

[IS300FSPORT]

1 hour ago, Colinb623 said:

Hi all

I've recently noted the private market increase in asking price for the IS300H lately . Has anyone else noted this ? 

Some 2014/2015 plate F sports are just shy of the 20k bracket ..(euros)

Holding their value at the moment a couple of factors.

- The used car market after Covid went crazy due to lack of supply

- EV/Hybrid now trending in comparison to diesels

- Londons ULEZ expansion charge driving out old diesels

- Low road Tax

What I find interesting is Lexus/Toyota were well ahead of their time the IS300H if i'm not mistaken was initially in released 2013 production up until 2020 7 years is a long time yes their were upgrades & facelift version. It does show they it may not have been so popular 10 years ago because they were deemed as boring to drive now with the used car market alot of people are taking an interest & all of a sudden they are in demand.

Well done to Lexus they were leading the 'Green' environment game way back. Same could also be said for Honda.

[Shahpor]

38 minutes ago, IS300FSPORT said:

Holding their value at the moment a couple of factors.

- The used car market after Covid went crazy due to lack of supply

- EV/Hybrid now trending in comparison to diesels

- Londons ULEZ expansion charge driving out old diesels

- Low road Tax

What I find interesting is Lexus/Toyota were well ahead of their time the IS300H if i'm not mistaken was initially in released 2013 production up until 2020 7 years is a long time yes their were upgrades & facelift version. It does show they it may not have been so popular 10 years ago because they were deemed as boring to drive now with the used car market alot of people are taking an interest & all of a sudden they are in demand.

Well done to Lexus they were leading the 'Green' environment game way back. Same could also be said for Honda.

Which makes it even more of a shame that they aren't selling the IS in the UK anymore.

I would have seriously considered it as my next car if they had.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, IS300FSPORT said:

Lexus/Toyota were well ahead of their time the IS300H

Which is both their achievement and biggest loss. Sometimes being too far ahead in something is not great... and that was reflected in poor sales of Lexus hybrids. If they were PHEVs, it would have been different story, but Lexus somehow was way too late to that game. Likewise as Shahpor said, now they becoming more relevant and guess what - Lexus no longer sells IS in the UK. So the limited supply which was sold in very small numbers appreciates. 

As for prices, currently prices are all over the place, not only Lexus and not only IS300h... it may be temporary thing, it may be longer term, I think it is much more to do with external factors than some sort of Lexus 4D strategy (like car supply/demand/economic situation). It is ridiculous to think in 2016 I bought 2008 IS250 SEL (which would be now equivalent to 2017 IS300h F-Sport/Premier) for £4000... what is what used to be 6-years old Lexus price. Now you can't get one for £8000, not even £12,000. Well and I guess it is possible to argue 2016 was good time to buy mk2, as last of them were coming out of leases, first mk3 started coming out of leases and everyone just wanted to dump them. But 2008 IS250 will still cost you £4000 today... after 7 years! I has mine crashed, written-off, got £3800 from insurance and still sold the car with Cat-N for £2500... this is just not how used car market suppose to work, so I would argue this is temporary phenomenon. 

That said I have heard pure EVs are sinking like a rocks in value, there is no demand for them, no dealers want to PX them, no dealers want to take them and people taking massive price cuts privately. I wonder why that is?! So if you have where to charge one, this may be time to look for BEV. But Lexus prices are ridiculous at the moment. 

[Mr_Groundhog]

57 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Which makes it even more of a shame that they aren't selling the IS in the UK anymore.

I would have seriously considered it as my next car if they had.

Same here. The newest version of the IS300h is super cool. I want to keep mine for a long time (partly because they don't sell the new one) but I admit that if they were to have it available in the UK, I would be looking forward to upgrading in a couple of years or less (fortunately my car can't read this so she won't be offended).

[cdmaskell]

If the IS 300h was available now, with the refinement of the ES 300h, I would have one.  Iconic, ageless styling. Love my ES, but the size and manoeuvrability of the IS suited us two oldies very well.

[Mr_Groundhog]

3 hours ago, cdmaskell said:

If the IS 300h was available now, with the refinement of the ES 300h, I would have one.  Iconic, ageless styling. Love my ES, but the size and manoeuvrability of the IS suited us two oldies very well.

That's the thing.... for me the ES isn't an alternative because it's too large to handle it through the narrow streets of where we live, plus my driveway and garage are a bit tight.

I like the interior of the ES but the wheels Lexus sells it with are way oversized for the engine and he type or car it is (most cars do nowadays).

[ST100]

If the new model IS was available in the uk, i would buy one in a heart beat.Im not a fan of SUVs.I have mentioned this to my local dealer and the standard response is " we have the ES if you would like a saloon car . The forcourt was full of used ES models , and i must say the second hand prices were holding up very well.

Steve

 

[ikeja]

I would also purchase the new model IS if it was available in the UK.

 

[Mr_Groundhog]

I know this forum is a heavily biased statistical sample 🤔 but something tells me the Lexus marketing people didn't do their homework before they decided not to bring the new IS300 to the UK.... You read around the internet and there are many of us that aren't much into SUVs.

[imgo]

I am hoping that the used price for an IS300h remains 'high' as I will be selling my fully loaded IS300h Premier when my new NX350h arrives. Sorry purchasers, just my situation. I have noticed that the guide price on parkers.co.uk for my car is only about 500 pounds less than what it was in February last year, so second-hand value that are holding up very well at present.

[Linas.P]

9 hours ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

I know this forum is a heavily biased statistical sample 🤔 but something tells me the Lexus marketing people didn't do their homework before they decided not to bring the new IS300 to the UK.... You read around the internet and there are many of us that aren't much into SUVs.

I reckon they are not wrong, they are just praying on fashion and ignorance. Simply said it costs Lexus the same money to make NX as it takes to make IS, same components goes into both and whatever shape body they press out from the sheet metal really makes little difference. Yet they can sell SUV for £10k more despite it literally costing them same to make. To be fair I am guilty of it myself, because I am always willing to pay more for coupe than I do for saloon... yet coupe is literally cheaper to make because it requires less of various components - "paying extra for 2 doors less"!

And all this non-sense that "market want's SUVs" is BS... no market does not want SUVs, it is just manufacturers that want to sell SUVs because they are higher profit margin cars. It is manufacturers who pushes the SUVs in all possible ways and now literally by force, because Lexus pretty much only have SUVs left, FWD Toyota ES and brilliant but not affordable LC/LS, all the rest are 121 different models of just SUVs.

Obviously, there is less cynical look - coupes are expensive because they sell very few of them (but I mean if they sell them cheaper, then they would sell more...) and SUVs are popular because vast majority of people do not care how car drives and cares more about practicality of it. Very few people actually knows how to drive properly and even fewer really likes to drive and appreciates the subtle car dynamics differences. Not sure it turned out much less cynical, but that is true - SUVs are just sign that drivers cares less and less about driving dynamics and puts less emphasis on it. And society overall is actually openly hostile towards the drivers, so culturally it makes sense - now people want to distance themselves from drivers and distance themselves from capable and beautiful cars. Because if you have capable and beautiful car, or god forbid like driving it - then you are "damn evil motorist". However, if you bland box of stilts which basically takes you from A-to-B and gives you space to put your stuff in, and ideally you pretend you are doing it "just because you don't have other choice"... then you are fine. As long as you end-up driving almost by accident it is not a sin, but if you dare enjoy it... So yeah - people are conditioned not to like driving and SUVs just makes sense then, especially all sorts of cross-overs.

Anyway... rant over... 

 

[ColinBarber]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:30 PM, Linas.P said:

And all this non-sense that "market want's SUVs" is BS... no market does not want SUVs, it is just manufacturers that want to sell SUVs because they are higher profit margin cars. It is manufacturers who pushes the SUVs in all possible ways and now literally by force, because Lexus pretty much only have SUVs left, FWD Toyota ES and brilliant but not affordable LC/LS, all the rest are 121 different models of just SUVs.

SUVs are exactly what the market wants in the UK. It is very clear that people like the practicality, high driving position etc of an SUV and therefore the manufacturers are catering for that need. A car for the vast majority is transportation, to get somewhere in comfort - there are very few people that go out for a drive just for the pleasure of driving with no end destination.

Manufacturers price their vehicles based on what people will pay. They can sell an SUV for £10k more because people want them - if people didn't want them they wouldn't purchase them. If in the future saloons become desirable then manufacturers will start to sell them for a premium over SUVs - cost of production is irrelevant.

 

 

[Linas.P]

13 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

SUVs are exactly what the market wants in the UK. It is very clear that people like the practicality, high driving position etc of an SUV and therefore the manufacturers are catering for that need. A car for the vast majority is transportation, to get somewhere in comfort - there are very few people that go out for a drive just for the pleasure of driving with no end destination.

Manufacturers price their vehicles based on what people will pay. They can sell an SUV for £10k more because people want them - if people didn't want them they wouldn't purchase them. If in the future saloons become desirable then manufacturers will start to sell them for a premium over SUVs - cost of production is irrelevant.

Well I guess it was more correct to say "not everyone wants SUVs", apart of that mostly agree? SUVs cost the same to make as the cars, people no longer care about driving dynamics or the looks and manufacturers are very happy as well, because it is easier to justify the price of larger car. I just don't understand at which point that became the same as "nobody wants anything else".

Lexus always seems to jump to conclusions very quickly... it was the same with 300h - "70% of sales will be 300h, so let's not sell any other engines" and same again with SUVs "70% of sales will be SUVs, so let's not sell any other cars"... I just always find it strange that they don't want to cater for another 30%.

I am sure BMW and MB as well mostly sells SUVs, but they still have space in their model line-up for 3-Series and 5-Series, and coupes, and even some engine choice. I don't want to go into details comparing each trim... but in summary my point is that Lexus could offer all the SUVs they currently offering and sell just as much of them without leaving sizeable part of customers without any choice. I don't understand why can't they offer new IS as well as all the 121 shape of SUVs of all sizes?

[ColinBarber]

Maybe the margins aren't there on the saloons to cover the cost of shipping, import taxes and sparing to remain competitive with the European competition. Dealers then don't sell enough to cover the purchase of demo vehicles.

[LordByronUK]

I couldn't agree more about Lexus making a huge mistake not bringing the 2022 refreshed IS to the UK market, they clearly didn't do their homework as there is big demand now, they screwed up big time on this. I've even spoke to several dealerships on the issue and all say it was a very strange decision as people are always asking/demanding for IS300h vehicles. I was told though that the all new IS will be coming back. Thing is, what harm could it have done to make the refreshed IS available here even just for say 3-6 months to give it a try, I mean they already build the right hand drive version in Japan, they just need to put the things on a bloody boat and job done!

[DBIZO]

31 minutes ago, LordByronUK said:

I couldn't agree more about Lexus making a huge mistake not bringing the 2022 refreshed IS to the UK market, they clearly didn't do their homework as there is big demand now, they screwed up big time on this. I've even spoke to several dealerships on the issue and all say it was a very strange decision as people are always asking/demanding for IS300h vehicles. I was told though that the all new IS will be coming back. Thing is, what harm could it have done to make the refreshed IS available here even just for say 3-6 months to give it a try, I mean they already build the right hand drive version in Japan, they just need to put the things on a bloody boat and job done!

I suspect it's a bit more investment than that. You always work with a limited resource, budget, people, time, and so you make the decision where to allocate or you increase spending. Keeping car and parts inventory, spending on marketing, sales training, technical support training, all add up. And even if you sell a grand total 5 of the thing, you'll need to support them for 10-15 years. Below a certain scale of expected sales, that's not viable. Besides, Lexus UK has communicated in the past that something like 80% of sales were SUVs when they pulled the GS then the IS. That's what people buy, at least from Lexus. 

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, DBIZO said:

I suspect it's a bit more investment than that. You always work with a limited resource, budget, people, time, and so you make the decision where to allocate or you increase spending. Keeping car and parts inventory, spending on marketing, sales training, technical support training, all add up. And even if you sell a grand total 5 of the thing, you'll need to support them for 10-15 years. Below a certain scale of expected sales, that's not viable. Besides, Lexus UK has communicated in the past that something like 80% of sales were SUVs when they pulled the GS then the IS. That's what people buy, at least from Lexus. 

I suppose the question that will always go unanswered is would the refreshed IS have sold in greater numbers than the ES. I for one would have bought the refreshed IS but have have no intention of buying an ES - I am now running my IS 300h for the foreseeable future until I see how the whole industry starts to shake out or it become uneconomical to keep on the road. 

[Kermitpwee]

On 4/10/2023 at 9:31 AM, Colinb623 said:

Hi all

I've recently noted the private market increase in asking price for the IS300H lately . Has anyone else noted this ? 

Some 2014/2015 plate F sports are just shy of the 20k bracket ..(euros)

Irish market is crazy, people are looking for silly money. I sold a 172 f sport last october privately, sold it for 18k euro, 2 callers, one guy looked at it and bought it.

116k miles, Lexus sh apart from last 2 were independent. Sorry I sold it!!

[Colinb623]

1 hour ago, Kermitpwee said:

Irish market is crazy, people are looking for silly money. I sold a 172 f sport last october privately, sold it for 18k euro, 2 callers, one guy looked at it and bought it.

116k miles, Lexus sh apart from last 2 were independent. Sorry I sold it!!

That was some bargin at 18k euro !

[DBIZO]

4 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

I suppose the question that will always go unanswered is would the refreshed IS have sold in greater numbers than the ES. I for one would have bought the refreshed IS but have have no intention of buying an ES - I am now running my IS 300h for the foreseeable future until I see how the whole industry starts to shake out or it become uneconomical to keep on the road. 

Right, we’ll never know. I doubt an incremental refresh would have changed its fate. I suspect the segment of buyers the IS300h appeals to is a small one in any case. Reliability and build quality are hard to sell on in a consumer market. The cabin is compact by today’s standards, but it’s neither a family nor a performance car, it doesn’t have the status appeal either. The eCVT is still a mystery to most. 

I do like the car a lot, but I don’t think an incrementally improved version would sell much or would justify an upgrade that’s 20k mire than a nice second hand.

A plugin IS350h with fully updated power train with improved virtual gear simulation for sport mode, a bit bigger cabin, and fully loaded Takumi only trims would be a different story. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wharfhouse]

11 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

Right, we’ll never know. I doubt an incremental refresh would have changed its fate. I suspect the segment of buyers the IS300h appeals to is a small one in any case. Reliability and build quality are hard to sell on in a consumer market. The cabin is compact by today’s standards, but it’s neither a family nor a performance car, it doesn’t have the status appeal either. The eCVT is still a mystery to most. 

I do like the car a lot, but I don’t think an incrementally improved version would sell much or would justify an upgrade that’s 20k mire than a nice second hand.

A plugin IS350h with fully updated power train with improved virtual gear simulation for sport mode, a bit bigger cabin, and fully loaded Takumi only trims would be a different story. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed that the IS appeal is to a limited audience but the sales of BMW 3 series is still (relatively) strong. I came from a string if BMWs (3 and 5 series) looking for something different (I'd got quite bored of them) and the IS drew me in for the reasons it was different (and I liked the points you mention, incl the e-cvt), it pleasantly surprised me when I test drove one and it has continued to grow on me ever since, making the lack of another (refreshed) IS to trade up to even more frustrating... the ES just doesn't pique my interest in the same way - I'm sure it does a lot of things very well, as the IS does, but the ES seems to appeal to an even more limited audience IMHO...

[Kermitpwee]

18 hours ago, Colinb623 said:

That was some bargin at 18k euro !

I was happy, it s difficult to sell privately, was it a bargain? i think they are looking for crazy money for them now tbh, still better value to be had in an is300h versus a bmw or audi equivalent

[Colinb623]

4 hours ago, Kermitpwee said:

I was happy, it s difficult to sell privately, was it a bargain? i think they are looking for crazy money for them now tbh, still better value to be had in an is300h versus a bmw or audi equivalent

They have increased big time in price . Infact I would be in a healthy profit if I sold my 2016 F sport is300h now . But I will keep it as I like it too much :).

 

 

[Driver72]

 A week ago I had an idea to change my IS300h for estate car,  because why not? So, I did my research, and according to the internet, my car should be worth around £16000, as it is. I did pay for it £17600 two years ago, but we put about 35000 miles in meantime on the clock, hence less price. 
   I requested a quote from webuyanycars, and they gave me £13000. So, I was ready to PX my car for £14000 - £14500.

     I found a suitable car, and ask them for the PX price. They said, they can pay £12500, because IS300h is not so popular. In fact, It is on 87th place in popularity. 
  My car is in immaculate condition, with FSH, brand new caliper and new front brakes. It spent whole previous week in Lexus garage for repair. It doesn't matter for anybody. So, asking price not always follows the real money. 
    In fact, I immediately stopped even thinking about swapping my beauty for anything else.