Supermarket Petrol - Good Or Not So Good?

[DJP]

My Mother, amongst many other old wive's tales, has long said avoid supermarket petrol as it is inferior to that supplied by forecourt garages. I believe her original source was Honest John!

Anyway, I used a supermarket outlet and shortly afterwards felt that the engine sound had changed on idle, the best way I can describe it as 'pinking' which is a term I hope those members of 40+ years will recall!

I nearly popped it in to Lexus but didn't and have now had to refuel, which I did using Shell ordinary, not the V Power. It wasn't too long before the idling sound had returned to the normal Lexus purr.

I guess that Shell must use better/more additives to improve the fuel, and I wondered whether it really is worth the extra to use premium fuel as a matter of routine.

I'm sure there are some experts on this great forum who could educate me further. I must remember to tell Mother that she was right. Again.

[noby76]

+ 1 .. I have always stayed away from Supermarket fuels and a loyal Shell, Esso(Mobil) fuel user. I see it like this; the same way a tyre is not just a tyre as they all differ based on compund and performance, thats the way a fuel is not just a fuel and one pays a couple of pence more for quality additives found in BP, Shell, Total, and Esso.

[ricostuart]

Its a myth that the supermarkets provide inferior fuel. All fuels in the UK must be within a very high standard. There is a large marketing drive with pro fuel companies (shell, esso, etc) to say theirs is much better. Its not all that better. Cars that are built in the uk are designed to run on 95 octane. Higher octane fuels that are available are not much use to cars not ecu programmed to run on such fuel cannot take advantage. Any improvements that it theoretically can give is compensated to bring the car engine performance back to standard.

With the Lexus, its the same as if you put on a larger exhaust, intake or manifold, etc. The car will enjoy small benefit for a short period, compensate then bring all gains back to stock.

I have run many cars (Impreza, RX7, Skyline, etc) on standard supermarket fuels, and have never had any issues - performance or otherwise. I have also got the Skyline dyno'd a few times with different fuels and found negligible differences. Mainly because the ECU wasn't programmed accordingly.

Remember, alot of these fuels are actually the same - same refinery, etc, but with different labels. This happens with many many many products.

PS - Apologies for spelling errors!

[SunrayMinor]

I was told that, low octane and supermarket fuel could cause engine management issues, I don't know if it's true, but I now use shell V power in my LS430, and have used BP ultimate for 12 years, with no car problems ever, including my old RR.

Funny thing though, on oils, One guy who serviced my RR once, put Penziol oil in it, it leaked and the car didn't sound the same, almost too noisy, as soon as I changed it back to Castrol Magnatec, all the issues above went away. Would be keen to hear from others if they use cheaper fuel as well.

[noby76]

yes I'm aware they are all the same 95 ron and come from the same refinery but what differentiates them is the cleaning additives. the better the cleaning additive compund the smoother the car runs and the better it will combust and perform. so as DJP confirmed his engine wasnt liking the fuel compounds/additives from the supermarket he filled up at went back to shell and everything was as smooth as Lexus intended.

its just like apple juice they are all sold on the same shelf and both marketed as refreshment beverages which meets food safety quality laws but if you look closely there our ones labled as 'From Concentrate' and ones labled as 'Not from Concentrate' though the body will still function ok when both are taken in, the 'Not from Concentrate' juice is the healthy option as it contains less beverage chemicals same applies to fuels they all meet 95ron spec but will differ in thier chemical cleaning additives .

[The-Acre]

My Mother, amongst many other old wive's tales, has long said avoid supermarket petrol as it is inferior to that supplied by forecourt garages. I believe her original source was Honest John!

Anyway, I used a supermarket outlet and shortly afterwards felt that the engine sound had changed on idle, the best way I can describe it as 'pinking' which is a term I hope those members of 40+ years will recall!

I nearly popped it in to Lexus but didn't and have now had to refuel, which I did using Shell ordinary, not the V Power. It wasn't too long before the idling sound had returned to the normal Lexus purr.

I guess that Shell must use better/more additives to improve the fuel, and I wondered whether it really is worth the extra to use premium fuel as a matter of routine.

I'm sure there are some experts on this great forum who could educate me further. I must remember to tell Mother that she was right. Again.

I suppose it must be 3 years or so since I asked the same question on this forum. I took my car in for an MOT and it failed on emissions. The tester asked if I used supermarket fuel which I did. It was quite low on fuel so he said go to the Texaco (I think it was) garage and fill up. I did as suggested and when I took the car back it passed. There was a long debate here and in the end I decided to always go for the known brands. I think the results of the debate were inconclusive, so basically I'm none the wiser!

Phil

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

My 200 is rough on sainsburys or morrisons petrol, purrs on shell or esso. Can't be coincidence....

[ricostuart]

From 5th Gear (most recent episode this week) tested on Golf GTi 35 Anniversary

BP 95ron - 236.1bhp £1.39

BP 97ron ultimate - 236.7bhp £1.47

Shell V-Power 98 ron - 240.9bhp £1.45

Esso 97ron Supreme - 240.5bhp £1.44

Asda Unleaded (cheapest available) - 235.8bhp £1.36

There is approx 5bhp difference. IMO not really a noticeable difference. Especially seeing the cost difference.

Of course if the car is tuned to higher rons, then you should use them. Remember, these cars are able to run on crappy american fuels (and other contries) which use a much lower ron rating then ours.

There are alot of additives in the fuels, but they arent hughly different from each other.

[noby76]

American fuel ratings are calculated differently they use the average of RON and MON so averages slightly lower than just the RON ratings used in UK but the quality is the same.

US 91 AKI = UK 95-96 RON

US 93 AKI = UK 98 RON

US 94 AKI = UK 99-100 RON

US 87 AKI = 91RON not sold in UK.

Lexus is mapped to run on minimum 91 AKI which is UK 95-96RON though it could run on lesser RON octane its not advisable to use that grade of fuel for a longer duration of time if one wants to save his/her engine. if one drives a car which cannot take the benefits of higher ron fuels then using it is a waste of money but in the case of this GTI there is 5bhp to be made if Shell or Esso Supreme is used instead of Asda unleaded.if you are into mods, invest in a high flow panel filter or Induction kit for another 5 bhp and thats a total 10 bhp yeilded from the same car. if one is not bothered about performance then standard fuel is fine but i personally think Shell and Esso know what they are doing when it comes to refining the base fuel with additives. might be the fact that i watch too much F1 and the two most succesful teams use those fuels even though its not the same compound sold at the pumps! I might be a sucker after all :D. but seriously most people have experieced countless issues be it rough idling, noisier engines, non responsive, failed emissions, slow to start and the list goes on from using supermarket fuels so for the sake of a couple of pence i will give my engine the best fuel it deserves and it will serve me well. will boil down to personal preference i guess.

[bluenose1940]

Prior to owning my current car I had a 220d and, having taken the trouble to clean the EGR Valve I then decided to use only Shell petrol (occasionally other non-supermarket fuel) and I found that the car ran much better all round, smoother idling, great acceleration and, much improved mpg. I should also add that I used Bardahl Oils B10 fuel additive at each tank fill-up to minimise the carbon deposit, having used their EGR Valve Cleaning Kit.

Now that I have changed to the 250, I have just ordered some Archoil AR6400 to run through and clean the system and then I will try the AR6200 at each tank fill-up, plus of course I will continue to use Shell petrol, or other non-supermarket stuff.

For those of you that may be interested and, if you missed their thread posted earlier this week go to www.powerenhancer.co.uk as they have some great discounts available at the moment.

[The-Acre]

Prior to owning my current car I had a 220d and, having taken the trouble to clean the EGR Valve I then decided to use only Shell petrol (occasionally other non-supermarket fuel) and I found that the car ran much better all round, smoother idling, great acceleration and, much improved mpg. I should also add that I used Bardahl Oils B10 fuel additive at each tank fill-up to minimise the carbon deposit, having used their EGR Valve Cleaning Kit.

Now that I have changed to the 250, I have just ordered some Archoil AR6400 to run through and clean the system and then I will try the AR6200 at each tank fill-up, plus of course I will continue to use Shell petrol, or other non-supermarket stuff.

For those of you that may be interested and, if you missed their thread posted earlier this week go to www.powerenhancer.co.uk as they have some great discounts available at the moment.

I was also told that using "known brands" would slightly decrease fuel consumption, don't know if that's true or not but when you average 21 mpg every bit helps!

[Argento]

I had the first service on my MY 2011 IS250 F-Sport in April.

Dealer said they had put a fuel additive in the tank (£9)

Lexus recommendation apparently.

Does anyone know what that additive is (manufacturer, product name etc.)?

Argento

[Silver Arrow]

I seem to recall several tests in the past (car mags), all were inconclusive...but we did have that "silicon gate" debacle a few years ago!!

[Exiled]

My wife's Mini is 2 years old next April and has done 9,000 miles.

We had correspondence from our BMW dealer offering a winter check for £14.95. For that amount of money they are not going to do much but I booked it in and asked them to check the car for tyre wear. There are so many potholes on the roads I wondered whether the tracking had been misaligned.

When I booked in the car the service manager asked if we used supermarket fuel, when I asked why he said if we used it continuously he would recommend we changed the oil even though the first service wasn't due until next April. The two most convenient suppliers are Shell and BP so that's what we use. He said the occasional tank of supermarket fuel would not be detrimental adding that it did not contain the additives found in Shell or BP.

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

All I know is that I get 300 miles from from a tank of sainsburys normal 95 RON, 330 miles using esso normal 95 RON and a massive 400 miles if I use anything higher than 97 RON. So I use 97-99RON in my IS. :)

[Argento]

I may have found an answer to my own question!

Surfing the net I found:

https://www.toyota.com.au/owners/parts/fluids-cleaner/fuel-injector

I realise this is what our Aussie brothers do.

But it does look like "official" Toyota advice, don't you think?

Not sure why my dealer advised treatment when my car was only 1 year old and had done well under 10k?

Argento

[fjcfarrar]

There is no proper peer-reviewed evidence that overall "superfuels" produce differences over Supermarket fuels of the same RON rating greater than those produced by daily/seasonal variations in atmospheric pressure, temperature & humidity. There is limited evidence that "superfuels" in some engine/cars can improve performance and/or fuel efficiency, and a smaller number where these are made worse. There is no evidence that any cause harm. Fuel from Supermarkets that sell large quantities and thus have clean tanks is fine for most cars - but for some cars with engines in a range of states of wear and overall condition; "superfuels" may provide modest advantages which can only be found by suck-it-and-see. Everybody is free to make their choice either based on data or personal preference.

[TigerFish]

I use fuels from whatever garage I come across when I need it, named brands and supermarket. Never had any noticeable ill effects or gains from any of them.

[Tango]

My IS-F had it's free winter check-up today, a general safety check of tyres/coolant/fluids/battery etc. All was well as I expected, but I also enquired as to whether they would recommend a fuel additive that would help clean the injection system. The Service Manager gave me a can of Tunap 973 micro flex Benzin E5-E100 to try. Doubt if I'll notice any difference in the IS-F performance, but I'll monitor the mpg etc. for any improvement. Appears that Toyota may be stocking it even though it's formulated in Germany http://www.tunap.com/de/bereiche/automotive/produkte/p973.html

[normski2]

My guess would be that is the same as BG44K from Powerenhancer. From memory, that was Benzene based.

[Exdee]

I have been following this thread with interest. Have always filled up my car with Tesco fuel as it's the only pump that I don't have to detour for on my way to or from work. I switched to Shell last week and have noticed an improvement in the engine noise to an extent where I can not tell whether it is running or not when the car is stationary.

Shell V Power it will be from now on. :)

[Argento]

Tango & normski2, thanks for this information.

Just what I wanted to know.

I'll try that Tunap 973

Argento

[Tango]

Tango & normski2, thanks for this information.

Just what I wanted to know.

I'll try that Tunap 973

Argento

BG44k appears to have changed its formulation to to a Kerosene based cleaner so it's not really the same. Why use a Kerosene based cleaner when Tunap 973 is free from it and is half the price of BG44K?

Having explored their site a little more it appears they do a "direct" injection cleaner for sorting out a specific problem with deposits on injectors and valves, and the "973" is for prevention and maintainance. I was given the can of 973 by the Lexus dealership and added it to a full tank of Tesco 95 RON, but it is available for around £8.00 per can, which treats 60 litres of petrol so cost of using it consistently would add around 13 pence per litre. I'm unsure of the current price of BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power, but if similar additives are already in these premium fuels then it may not make economic sense to use the 973.

Current price for Tesco 95 after this mornings 2p price drop is 132p a litre, so if I had purchased the 973 it would effectively be 145p per litre. How does this compare to current premium fuel prices?

[fjcfarrar]

Tango & normski2, thanks for this information.

Just what I wanted to know.

I'll try that Tunap 973

Argento

BG44k appears to have changed its formulation to to a Kerosene based cleaner so it's not really the same. Why use a Kerosene based cleaner when Tunap 973 is free from it and is half the price of BG44K?

Having explored their site a little more it appears they do a "direct" injection cleaner for sorting out a specific problem with deposits on injectors and valves, and the "973" is for prevention and maintainance. I was given the can of 973 by the Lexus dealership and added it to a full tank of Tesco 95 RON, but it is available for around £8.00 per can, which treats 60 litres of petrol so cost of using it consistently would add around 13 pence per litre. I'm unsure of the current price of BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power, but if similar additives are already in these premium fuels then it may not make economic sense to use the 973.

Current price for Tesco 95 after this mornings 2p price drop is 132p a litre, so if I had purchased the 973 it would effectively be 145p per litre. How does this compare to current premium fuel prices?

I am sure that these additives do what they says they do - but there is no suggestion anywhere that any type of fuel (Supermarket or otherwise) makes injectors dirty in the first place and if fuel ever does it would be due to impurities in the fuel which are outside the basic specifications applicable to fuels of particular RON ratings. Such contamination is more likely when the volatiles evaporate in garage storage tanks leaving a higher proportion of waxy solids or these tanks are dirty. Neither of these is likely with high-volume sales of Supermarket fuels. It leads to the suggestion that the cleaning additives in "Superfuels" are perhaps there to stop it "going off" a bit due to the smaller volumes sold making it to linger longer in the storage tanks.

[noby76]

Premium fuels like BP Ultimate, Shell Vpower, Esso Super already have high concentrations of these cleaning additives already formulated in them so when I need to clean my enmgine system all i do is fill up with V power or Esso Super continusly for about a month and engine and fuel systems will be cleaned. prices of fuels depends on where one lives and Shell V power is currenlty at 139.9p per litre...