IS250 ?

[The Family Frost]

Hi all,

I'm looking at an IS250 for my Wife, to replace her Mercedes A170 petrol. she drives from Reigate to Maidstone 4 days per week, and I'm really not a fan of her driving what is not much more than a shoebox with all the articulated lorries going to and from Dover on M25/M26/M20.

I had have 7 IS200s over time, as my brother was a regional marketing director for Lexus. Always been a fan of them.

Test driven an IS220d and couldn't believe how dreadful the manual gearbox was (sorry to anyone reading this who has one, maybe I just drove a bad one, but owners reviews seem to say the same) The IS200s I had, had a fantastic 6 speed manual box, with short sharp gear changes, the 220d was like stiring porridge, and the gear stick was so loose/wobbly, so that was quickly out of the equation.

Now tried two IS250s and both have been great. Found one with around 65k on clock, but I'm a little worried. I've heard they have spark plug issues, or need changing at this mileage with service.

Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone continued to use the car without changing? I'm assuming the only thing one would notice would be it running lumpy? I've seen prices quoted around £500- £600 for replacement. Is this correct ?

Thanks in advance for any help/tips/advice

[madasahatter]

Plugs should of been done at 60,000 miles

[madasahatter]

Plugs should of been done at 60,000 miles

[normski2]

Hope you are looking at the auto box versions. What year are you looking at? Any particular model ... SR, SEi, SEL etc.

Generally, road tax is cheaper on the auto box variant. Manuals can be £495 pa although early ones are I believe £295. The Autos are £295 pa road tax.

Spark plugs are not an issue as such .... there is no problem with them.

Spark plug change can be a large expense though .... around £600. But, they should be done at 60,000 mls or 6 years whichever comes first. The service history should reveal that to you. 

[lex28]

Hi, Like yourself I came from an is200 and the is250 is definitely a step up with the smooth auto box. 

Dont worry too much about spark plugs, and if and when they need changing they should cost no more than £120 and get a local garage to fit them like I did. 

They are pretty solid cars and I've never really experienced a major problem in the last 6 years of ownership. 

Make sure you take it for a long test drive, windows down and listen for any creaks and knocks. 

Make sure it has full service history like any car you would expect to buy. 

Water pump change is recommended when car is 10 years old. 

Also make sure you look at the spec with multimedia screen and reserve camera!

wish you well 

[The Family Frost]

Thanks :-)

Yes Normski, Auto Box, with paddle shift. 2005 SE Model. To be honest the multimedia screen is no a huge important one for us. I have multimedia in my car and I find the SatNav system awful. We both use WAZE all the time, as it continually updates traffic, and has saved us on many occasions, especially as we are close to M25 !!

My Wife will drive the Lexus, and also my car, a Citroen C-Crosser, which is same a Mitsubishi Outlander, but Citroen has better spec and nicer drive. It's diesel so will alternate to get best MPG over both cars. I don't use one much during the week unless out in studio or playing golf :-)

The service book is stamped, but no receipts for anything at all. The service book has got written in interval services, for air & fuel filter, but that's the lot. Drove really well when I drove it Friday and then Wife drove it Saturday with me in passenger seat. I've not got any issues/worries with the car as I found it, but a tiny bit suspect that no paperwork of receipts with the car. I'd think someone owning a car of this marque would keep every receipt for it's history ?

Last MOT advisory was

1. nearside front Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
2. offside front Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
3. nearside rear Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
4. offside rear Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
5. Rear tyres tread getting low

So looks like new pads all round needed

Did I see somewhere an issue with the brake calipers ?

Seems it's only been covering 6-7,000 miles a year as per last MOTs and Service schedule. As Petrol not a real issue, as would be with diesel.

As with any 2nd hand car, we often will not find any faults in a 30min test drive, so it's always a bit of a risk. This car feels good to me though, and is listed at £3,600

[The Family Frost]

Oh well, car is sold !!

[madasahatter]

Welcome Matthew to the forums, have a look to see if its due any recalls. Mine is a due an airbag recall, had fuel sensor gasket or o ring done last year.

While it was in had plugs done, as inlet manifold had to come off anyway. Cost was about £160.00 all in at the dealers.

Its not a hard job to do really plenty on utube. I asked for the receipt nothing stamped in the book. So may of been done already.

Rear calipers are a pain, make sure you have the sliders checked a couple of times a year. I do mine when winter tyres go on and then off again.

November and March. 5 Month interval. Hand brake is inboard make sure it works. Do not know why people in autos do not use them.

 

 

[normski2]

Yes, the calipers are an issue. The Slide pins need regular greasing or they are liable to seize.

TBH  I would expect to have a good clump of receipts with any car. I have kept a file for my car that I would pass on if I ever sell it....but its a keeper.

I too came from a is200 Sport. IMHO the 250 is way ahead on every level.

I was about to suggest you read Noobies post ... but I see you have. 

 

[is200 Newbie]

£600 for the replacement of the plugs is a pretty accurate guide.

BUT - theres a few points to consider - owners that have changed them have said theres plenty of life left in them - possibly up to 100k - having not seen for myself used ones I cant vouch for this. If you are using Lexus as the service option then they will be changed and reflected on the service history for the car at around 60k. Leaving the change to 100k will show on the service history ... depends on how you value the service history of the car. If you intend to keep the car and not change it soon and if you are piling the miles on is the service history much use in association with the car as a car over or near to 100k will be considered "less" value wise than one with low mileage if traded in or sold privately.

HOWEVER - there is currently a recall for them (a fuel seal) which involves removing most parts around the plugs to get to the seal making it easier to change the plugs while doing the recall and this cost would (some one correct me if I am wrong here)  be just for the price of the plugs, around £150

[steveledzep]

1 hour ago, is200 Newbie said:

owners that have changed them have said theres plenty of life left in them - possibly up to 100k

I'm not certain, but I believe the recommended mileage for plugs in the US is 100k.

 

On my previous car, I had plugs changed at the fuel pressure recall.  They only charged me for the plugs.

[rayaans]

I think the main issues with these are seized calipers and some cars seem to suffer from carbon build up. 

There are a few minor things like corroding alloy wheels, but mechanically, these things are as good as you get but Id strongly recommend going for an IS250 Auto rather than the manual. 

The issue with the receipts is a personal one. Some owners keep them, some don't, its just how it is. If the car has been serviced at a Lexus dealer, the record of what has/hasnt been done should be with them anyway but if its been done at a local independent, its likely that it was a cash in hand job with no receipt given or just a little piece of paper with a price written on it which wouldn't be that useful. 

I would say, as long as the condition of the car reflects the mileage, it drives well and its got a decent MOT history without anything unusual then its probably a good bet.

[Rebecca]

Seized calipers are probably the biggest issue on the is250. My previous IS suffered with seized rear calipers and I'm fully expecting the same with my current car. This problem can easily be overcome with regular greasing of the slide pins.

Carbon buildup not so much an issue with uk cars as it is in the USA due to our better fuel. I think in the states regular gas is 89 ron and even the premium is lower than uk standard fuel.

If you drive enthusiastically and use premium quality fuel carbon will not be an issue.

[johnatg]

Fuel grades in USA are only a little less ours. The numbers appear different because they don't use RON - they use the average of MON and RON (MON = Motor Octane number, RON = Research ON). MON is measured under more stringent conditions and comes out about 10 points lower than RON in the range we are talking about.

So US octane ratings are about 4-5 points lower than ours and Europe's. Usual grades offered are 89 and 91 - equivalent to 93/94 and 95/96.

But it's unlikely that Octane rating has any effect on carbon build up - octane rating describes one characteristic of petrol and one only - and that is knock resistance. Knock is the propensity of the mixture to detonate in the cylinder rather than burn smoothly. You hear it (if it is very prevalent) as pinking - a tinkling sound from the engine, usually when in too low a gear with the engine under load.

But you don't hear it any more in modern cars because they all have knock sensors which retard the ignition to stop the knock (and incidentally reduce power/performance). A proportion of the cylinderfuls of mixture detonate anyway - the knock sensor and ecu work to maintain it at acceptable levels, along with the fact that you should use at least the fuel grade specified as that too is selected to reduce knock to acceptable levels. Higher grade fuel allows the engine to get more power is it spends less time being retarded. In practice of course engines are designed to the fuel available rather than the other way round as might be inferred from the sentence above.

So why do US Direct Injection engines suffer more from carbon build up than in UK? That is one of the mysteries of the modern world - but it may have more to do with purity of the fuel and might have something to do with oil. After all, the carbon build up occurs in the inlet valve area and the fuel never gets near the inlet valve in DI engines - the valve only admits air. There may be some blow by as the valve opens and closes but I think it's more likely down to oil - but why should that be any different? Who knows?

 

[Linas.P]

As you mentioned, fuel rating has nothing to do with carbon build up. Unlike fuel rating in US, the actual requirements for it's quality is lower.

Additionally, using premium fuel won't prevent carbon built-up, but can potentially make the process slower. One way or another, that won't become an issue before at least 100k miles. I guess US problems has a lot to do with the fact that mileages on US cars are much higher and obviously. In 300k miles car it start to be more noticeable, not only because of fuel quality but as well due to engine wear overall.

In UK only IS220d surfers from issues with issues, but even then it is not really "carbon", but soot build up in DPF, turbine or inlet manifold.

To add to calipers issue I would just say that overall brakes on IS250 are undersized and wears extensively. When I am saying extensively I mean it.. where in other cars rotors can last 60-80k, it is not unusual for IS250 to wear rotors in 20-40k. Looking to service history on my current car first set of front rotors was replaced at 21k together with pads and rear ones were replaced at 40k. Overall, brake design is no great, but except of that car is nearly bullet proof. As well brake upgrade is possible from IS350/GS300.

Finally, just to be realistic on the issue (and not to over inflate it) I have done nearly 80k miles in 3 IS250's and never had issue with calipers. On my current high miles IS, the calipers were last changed under warranty by previous owner at 60k miles (nearly 100k miles/6 years ago) and I still have no issue with them. Recently I was told one of slider pins is slightly loose, so will replace all pins before next service... and that is it.

[true blue]

Hi Linas  I find your post re assuring ;I purchased my car at 20 000 miles ,noting there was a big lip on the front discs ,but as I do my own maintenance it was no big deal . I changed the front discs and pads at 22 000 and thought this was a really short  life  I have fitted brembo discs and pads to see how they go .The rears are now due for changing at 30 000 miles and I can say I have never had such low mileages from rear discs ,I'm glad its not an isolated problem .The calipers are all perfect and I keep a close check on them to prevent seizing .

Dave

[Rebecca]

The previous owner of my IS250 had new brake discs fitted at only 20 000. My vehicle is approaching 30 000 now and I already have a lip on the front discs and will be lucky to get another 10k out of them before they need changing. 

The rears however are still original and have no lip at all. The IS250 seems to eat front discs in no time.

[J Henderson]

On the other hand, my car is at 39K and still on the original brakes...

In fact the pad thickness was measured at 8mm F / 7mm R during the last service so probably good for another couple of years at least (providing the calipers keep moving freely).

 

[madasahatter]

13 hours ago, Rebecca said:

The previous owner of my IS250 had new brake discs fitted at only 20 000. My vehicle is approaching 30 000 now and I already have a lip on the front discs and will be lucky to get another 10k out of them before they need changing. 

The rears however are still original and have no lip at all. The IS250 seems to eat front discs in no time.

Cars do not fail on lipped discs, but on the performance of the brakes. Certain discs need bedding in to get the best performance. Oe are best to buy as a rule

but not always. Pads make a big difference some are harder than others. Normally ones that give little brake dust, are the worst as are normally harder.

Also discs make a big difference, every body has there favorite. Driving styles also auto cars are notted for going through pads quicker.Town driving and motorway

driving also comes into it. Motor way driving will get miles more miles out of discs and pads than town driving. And that is fact