Swapping IS250 for an RX450h, advice

[TimS320]

I'm considering trading the IS250 in for an 09-15 RX450 as I now need something larger, with a hatchback and able to tow. I don't want to go diesel,  much as I fancy a Discovery 4, so an RX on paper looks great.

My budget is around 15-18k and I'd be looking for an SEL to replace the same spec as I currently have on the IS. Ideally I'd be looking at a 2010 onwards with no more than 75k on the clock as I'd like to hang on to it for a while. 

I'd be using it for motorway trips abroad and want to be able to pull a small boat trailer.

So could any owners tell me if there are any issues I could watch out for when buying one, especially with the hybrid power train and batteries, can I get a good one for the money, and are there any issues towing with it? What's the real world mpg?

I'd appreciate any suggestions. I'm lining up a couple of test drives, but having read all the reviews I think I know what to expect handlingwise. I'm not looking to chuck it round corners, although this would be nice. I'd just like the superb quality and long distance ability I have with the IS. Is this still the same with the RX?

[GSLV6]

Lots of questions will spawn lots of replies! 

 

Here's a few starters for Ten:

What to look for:

• Full Lexus dealer service history is a must. Most newer, lower miles examples ought really to be fully dealer serviced from new as most owners tend to run with franchised dealerships for models up to 10 years old in order to benefit from the warranty.  Best holding out for one of these;
• Check a few known issues as listed below:
• Rear subframe and rear suspension mounts for signs of rust.  Expensive to replace.  Avoid buying anything having lived near the coast.
• Fuel filler pipe, located behind the arch liner connecting main filler pipe to tank....these can rust and are very expensive to replace;
• Suspension...big heavy vehicles can be sore on bushes, shock absorbers and joints.  Check these are all ok;
• Check waterpump (obvious signs of leaking from pulley bearing spells trouble).  These can fail and are not especially cheap to replace on these.
• Battery....check when the vehicle had it's last hybrid health check. They are generally pretty reliable and individual cells can easily be replaced either via careful DIY or via specialist hybrid mechanics much cheaper than going to Lexus.  Hybrid batteries seem generally to be good for at least 10 to 15 years.  Inverters rarely seem to give problems unless the cooling vents beneath the rear seats have been blocked.  It's easy to check.  Simply start the vehicle and check Battery state.  If low, a quick spin for 15 to 20 minutes ought to have the batteries almost completely charged.  When you put your foot down, you should get electric motors kicking in with main engine (check display).  There'd be a warning light on or a fault code thrown if not.  Always a good idea to beg, borrow or buy a code reader, as these can reveal a lot that the naked eye cannot detect and tell you of any current or historical issues;
• Brakes don't get a hammering on these due to the recovery system aiding breaking and most drivers of these seem to be of the more mature variety but worth checking disc condition and asking when the last full brake service was carried out;
• Check all electrics actually work and that menu system works.  Anything broken here can be expensive to fix.
• Check headlamps.  Xenons are not cheap.  Any signs of flickering on the main bulb is a bulb ob its way out.  These can be around £80 each to replace.
• Check steering rack for knocking sounds, best done on a ramp.  These are electro-mechanical and a new rack (for the 3Rx at any rate) costs £1200 to replace.  There've been reports of premature wear on these for the 3RX face-lift model, but unsure if the 2RX and older 3RX are the same.
• Check wheel alignment and tyre wear.
• Check exhaust and cat for signs of rust or leakage on older models  Again, not a cheap part to replace.

Other than that, they're pretty sound.  Personally, I'd avoid the air suspension models.  Old compressors have been known to fail and are very expensive to replace when they do go as are the air struts themselves.  These models are also a bit heavier.

You'll be fine for towing with one of these.  They make ideal towing vehicles BUT expect a large hit on fuel economy if you do, possibly low 20's to the gallon if towing a heavy boat.

Real world economy...well it depends on where most of your driving is done.  Flattish A-roads with few stop-starts and high 30's are possible.  Motorway at 70mph only yields 32mpg for mine.  If you push on a bit harder, without taking the mickey and driving at 3 figure speeds, expect no more than mid to high 20's.

We've just returned from a few weeks away in Cornwall, fully loaded up, and including local very hilly small roads and some urban crawling as well as hundreds of m-way miles saw only 27mpg average.  Driving ultra cautiously and within speed limits and I can get this nudged up to 33mpg but that seems to be about your lot.  Claims of 40+ mpg on a 3RX, frankly, I don't believe.  I know a few people with these, my mate having had a 2010 SEL and his long term average was 31mpg, mixed driving. That seems about right to me.  

[Silversalmon]

I reckon Paul is spot on in his observations though I can't offer any towing comments. It could look a worrisome list but he is just being exhaustive of possible things to look out for.

Perhaps the only things I could add are an occasional blip when my radio turns itself off and spits out a CD, mine has done this but only about once a month. I will mention it at the dealer when it goes in for a service in December. I bought a 2010 Sei with 68000 miles last December for £15K. In April, I asked them to look at a couple of rattles. Mostly trim related however one rattle (minor in my opinion at the time) meant they replaced the steering column and rack (under warranty, it cost £3K apparently).

Given the above I would say it is well worth obtaining  a Lexus warranty, not necessary to buy from a dealer interestingly. After the steering issue I bought an additional 2 year warranty for £940. 

I love this car, my third Lexus and I won't leave the brand. This car still feels tight, is rattle free, I agree 32mpg is probably spot on, it is the most comfortable car I have experienced and feels like it could soldier on for another ten years. 

I'm in Glasgow and the local dealer is absolutely brilliant, there are a lot of highly rated Main Dealers out there, if you could go the dealer route you should get peace of mind.

Good luck and just take your time. There will be one out there for you.

Ed in Glasgow

 

[rayaans]

Worth pointing out that these issues are rare 

Ive had a word with my dealership, the steering rack thing is not common and I've not heard of water pumps going on these either.

The main things are brake corrosion and tyre wear. Fuel filler pipe seems rare as well. 

[TimS320]

Thanks for such a detailed reply. It will take some time, especially as the three I was going to look at tomorrow at Lexus Stoke have all been sold in 48 hours!

[GSLV6]

12 hours ago, rayaans said:

Worth pointing out that these issues are rare 

Ive had a word with my dealership, the steering rack thing is not common and I've not heard of water pumps going on these either.

The main things are brake corrosion and tyre wear. Fuel filler pipe seems rare as well. 

I think that we had this conversation not long ago Rayaans, and there is obviously a difference of opinion between your dealership and mine. All I have done is to raise issues that are known about.   Admittedly, they are probably rare in the grand scheme of things and without having the truth from every dealership on issues for every vehicle, these things are always going to be impossible to quantify, but as they have been flagged by others and by a dealership, they are worth pointing out.

It was interesting when mentioning the issues that I had experienced with my GS300, a few were simply not going to believe the reliability issues that car suffered from, and the dealer was in denial even though they did the repair work!  Reality is that all cars have their issues and surveys and marketing  guff cannot always be relied upon.  Lexus seem better than most which is all you can really conclude if searching, without owning and running one to get the low down.

[rayaans]

5 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

I think that we had this conversation not long ago Rayaans, and there is obviously a difference of opinion between your dealership and mine. All I have done is to raise issues that are known about.   Admittedly, they are probably rare in the grand scheme of things and without having the truth from every dealership on issues for every vehicle, these things are always going to be impossible to quantify, but as they have been flagged by others and by a dealership, they are worth pointing out.

It was interesting when mentioning the issues that I had experienced with my GS300, a few were simply not going to believe the reliability issues that car suffered from, and the dealer was in denial even though they did the repair work!  Reality is that all cars have their issues and surveys and marketing  guff cannot always be relied upon.  Lexus seem better than most which is all you can really conclude if searching, without owning and running one to get the low down.

Well I've owned 5 Lexus's now and there are only a minority of RX owners on here and the rest only come on to the forum with issues. 

The steering rack thing is not a known issue. Might have occurred on 2 or 3 cars out of 300 or so but nowhere near as common as you've made out

[GSLV6]

But I haven't made out that it's "a common thing".  Where have I said that?!  I've merely pointed out that MY dealership has repaired several now (3 or 4 including mine) in the past 12 months, and that's on a list of perhaps 30 RXs they've sold in the past 18 months.  Don't shoot the messenger....I'm only passing on what was relayed to me by the dealership service department itself and from the experiences of 2 friends, both of whom have driven Lexus cars for years, and both of whom have owned 3RX models.  The question was asked "what to look for" and all I've done is to respond honestly and without exaggeration based on MY own experiences.  You may have owned 5 Lexus cars Rayaans but that doesn't mean that other people don't have any right to an opinion or to pass on what they have learnt, nor give you the right to be so domineering....Chill!  Let the OP simply make his own mind up based on the balance of information available.  It may well be that none of these issues are widespread, but they have occurred on 3RXs and that's a fact, not opinion, otherwise I would not have offered the feedback.

[Bluesman]

Calm gentlemen calm, we all love the same thing.

[Silversalmon]

I would also like to point out Rayaans is quite correct, the exhaustive list is not common, just ideas where to look if buying. My observations from lurking on this site and the US forums as well. Don't be put off, they are really magnificent cars.

[TimS320]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not put off,  my 125k IS drives like a two year old car and pulls like a train. Getting an older RX is not really a worry. I just have to try and find some nice ones to test drive.

[Glover]

Tim

Which magazine has just issued its 2017 car survey covering all major manufacturers and popular models.  Results are:

New large SUV:  First 4RX (tied with Audi Q7 but that's a diesel so not long for this world!)

Used large SUV:  First 3RX, third 2RX!!!!!!!!  I think a BMW came second but I wasn't paying too much attention to the other results!

Paul is right to go through everything although Rayaans is probably closer to the mark in terms of any regular problems (and judging by these forums regular for a RX or indeed any Lexus is fairly infrequent!).

With regards to fuel consumption I have averaged 35.3mpg since getting my RX in May 2016.  There's definitely a difference between summer and winter consumption; my best between fills was 41 last summer, worst was in the middle of winter with stop/start town driving and all electrics on when I got 25ish.

I did a fastish A1 trip last week approx. 120 miles up to Doncaster with hardly a hill in site.  I was totally ignoring good hybrid technique and got 33 mpg.  This was a real 70mph with a few bursts to get past things quickly. Hills are definitely the killer with the RX; mpg drops rapidly going up but the bonus is it usually coasts going down:-)  Using good hybrid technique on single carriageway in the summer 35 - 40 is easily achievable and that allows for some overtaking, which usually gets one or both electric motors working with the V6.  Earlier in the summer pottering around on holiday and including 200 miles of mid to high 60s. I averaged 36.6mpg over 600ish miles with one 20 mile trip giving me 46.2 (best I've ever had, flat roads are brilliant!).

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the RX, it is a brilliant car.  It's the only car I've had where friends and work colleagues who haven't got the slightest interest in cars see it and say wow and then sit in it and say they feel like royalty and then when we set off comment on its smoothness, luxury etc.  It's a wonderful place to be smooth, quiet, ultra comfortable and with a surprising turn of pace for a heavy SUV (mid-range acceleration is very good).  Cornering is definitely not its forte but if does hang on well although with a bit of roll  although I think the sport is probably a bit flatter through the corners judging by comments on the forum. 

I hope this helps and good luck with your search.

[Carl911]

I traded my is250 for the rx450 and if anything I get better fuel aconomy from the rx despite its size. My main driving is around town and odd carriageway but I never see it drop below low thirties. The is250 used to sit around 28mpg for the same trip so I reckon a good 4 mpg improvement since driving the rx and given its weight and size I think that's excellent. Also like yourself I needed a big hatchback and the rx has been just great. I can get the racing bike in without taking a wheel off and from memory 2.4metre lengths will go in up to the centre console when needed. Also the rear floor is flat as the rx has no rear tunnel, no rear driveshaft as the rear wheels are electric driven. Makes for good loading space behind front seats.

 

carl

[DanD]

Back to Tim's original query: you mention 09-15 RX.... I would recommend that you go for the facelifted model that came out in 2012. Better specc'ed, a little more fuel efficient. easy to pick out... it has DRLs whereas the 09-11 model does not.

[ColinBarber]

Worth test driving an F Sport so you can compare handling to the SEL

[Carl911]

I was In the same situation and although I prefer the facelift front grille I couldn't justify nearly £2000 extra just to get it. I drove most variants and frankly if there are differences they were so small I struggled to detect them. In the end I found a low mileage clean example from my local lexus dealership at a good price. It was pre-facelift but frankly I have no regrets and have found economy extremely good for the vehicle size. I think it's slightly better economy compared to my GS450h. Ultimately it comes down to how much you are prepared to pay. Decide on that figure then get the best one for the money you can find

carl

[TimS320]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm now off to test drive a 2009 SEI so I'll see what I think of the standard ride. I need to check that I'm not giving up anything important from the SEL spec either.

[TimS320]

Thanks for all the advice. I've just put a deposit on this, a 2009 SE I Nav. Although it's got 90k on, it's been well looked after and fully serviced by my local dealer, so I'm hoping it will be a trouble free upgrade for the next few years.

Be a shame to get rid of the IS250 though! Anyone interested?

[rayaans]

46 minutes ago, TimS320 said:

Thanks for all the advice. I've just put a deposit on this, a 2009 SE I Nav. Although it's got 90k on, it's been well looked after and fully serviced by my local dealer, so I'm hoping it will be a trouble free upgrade for the next few years.

Be a shame to get rid of the IS250 though! Anyone interested?

From Stockport?

Top blokes and car looks good too, doesn't look like it has 90k on and is a rare colour combo as well

[Carl911]

48 minutes ago, rayaans said:

From Stockport?

Top blokes and car looks good too, doesn't look like it has 90k on and is a rare colour combo as well

Looks almost the exact same deal as me, part x in my is250 in blue for my rx450 in light blue metalic.

im sure your have many happy years of driving from it. 

I know when I bought mine I have gone through several phases of loving it to thinking the novelty had worn off.

now some 11months later I still enjoy the car though. There were times I felt it needed a bit more go but then I was comparing it to my gs450. Overall, I love the high driving position, it's easy to drive and gets up the steep hills easily. I can fit my road bike in the boot without removing wheels which is a bonus for me and can get luggage for a two weeks holiday in the boot without needing to drop ge back seats. All in all I have found it one of the most practicals cars I have owned and not found it's size to be a problem. 

Its hard to imagine many other vehicles that could be as good an all rounder as the RX has been.

on top of that, he RX has run faultless.

My next cat decision, possibly next year will be the toughest as I'm either going to go completely impractical and buy a GS-F or else a new shape RX450. 

Anyway, well done with your purchase and enjoy the ride.

[TimS320]

Thanks, we're looking forward to it. Like you, I'll be glad just to get the bike in the back without roof bars, but I am planning a tow bar and demountable rack.

The guys at Stockport are good and have been looking after this one for a few years, so there should be no surprises at all.

One thing I couldn't find, does it have a USB port anywhere for plugging a flash drive into?

[Carl911]

9 hours ago, TimS320 said:

Thanks, we're looking forward to it. Like you, I'll be glad just to get the bike in the back without roof bars, but I am planning a tow bar and demountable rack.

The guys at Stockport are good and have been looking after this one for a few years, so there should be no surprises at all.

One thing I couldn't find, does it have a USB port anywhere for plugging a flash drive into?

Yes, should be one USB port and two cigarette lighter ports deep down in the centre console. Probably the only bit of the rx that's a bit awkward in that you need to open centre console lid and then pull inner box out to access them. 

[Guest]

Congratulations on your purchase we have had are RX nearly 2 years now and love it.