Lexus IS 300h F-Sport VS Jaguar XF R-Sport

[aceyy2k]

So I've test drove a few cars over the last couple of weeks and have narrowed down my choice between a Lexus IS 300h F Sport and a Jaguar XF R Sport. I know this is a Lexus forum but what's your preference and why? 

I am a 35 year old businessman and family man. 

Personally I think Jaguar is a little more premium, I like the fact it's British and I love the idea of the inConnect system. My specs would make it slightly more expensive than a Lexus though. Plus would a 35 year old fit in with a Jag? I like something a little different to think I'd see far less of the Lexus on the road than a Jag which appeals to me.

[ganzoom]

We were in the same situation last year, but with the previous XF or XJ. We went as far as taking the IS300H demo car to the Jag dealer.....What sold it to us was just how refined the hybrid drivetrain in the IS300H. It really hits us when we were out in the Jag dealership forecourt a IS300H pulled in gracefully under EV power, and than a £60K+ XJ pulled in with it's diesel engine rattling away like a tractor. At that point me and my wife looked at each other, and the decision to go for the Lexus over the Jag was made, we didn't even bother going into the Jag dealership.....So thank you to the driver of the white IS300H that arrived at the right time that morning .

More recently some family friends turned up at the house in a brand new Merc GLC.....Great looking car....Till the engine started, and I was reminded straight away just what an awful experience it is to drive/own any diesel car, and thats without all the latest diesel-gate stories  (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news-vw-emissions/95277/german-car-brands-to-recall-630k-diesel-models-over). The Lexus doesn't have the best infotaminent system, but the refinement and smoothness of the hybrid drivetrain more than makes up for that .

[Zotto]

Next time go for a GS 450h ;-)

[rayaans]

Own an IS300H F Sport but driven an XF R Sport. 

Personally,  on the road I didn't think there was much in it between the handling and the ride. They both are great cars to drive.

The XF was a 2.0d. We had a 2004 Merc C220 CDI before the IS and the XF drivetrain felt pretty much the same, in other words, a decade old. I found the noise intrusive. The IS is much more refined with very good noise, vibration and harshness levels. The XF didn't feel premium to me at all due to its rattling engine. It's just another rep mobile whereas the IS has a special aura to it

I wasn't impressed with the XF quality though. The infotainment is better but it's really bland inside and the switchgear feels cheap, particularly the buttons (centre console and steering wheel), armrests and the stalks. The steering wheel and dash also move slightly when you give it a good shake ( sounds weird but it's my way of testing a cars solidity). Jaguar seem to skimp out on padding too, the door panels sound hollow and the doors don't shut with the same thud as the Lexus (they say it's because Jag uses aluminium doors but then so does the Lexus RX and those doors sound epic!)

Also, before you commit, Lexus is releasing the facelift IS on 25th April, might be worth keeping in mind

Some shocking things on the XE/XF forum too. Paint defects, orange peel, headlight condensation, misaligned panels, awful standard sound system. Seems like a huge list for any car IMO and those are just the ones I bothered to read. Of course, these are things you don't need to worry about with Lexus being the best in reliability and customer service according to Autoexpress. They also do great in owner satisfaction surveys, usually coming first. Lexus owners generally love their cars and tend to keep buying more (I'm on my 3rd, looking for 4th currently)

The IS came 2nd this year for reliability too, after the Lexus RX :)

Edited April 24, 2016 by rayaans
ended up writing XE instead of XF but meant XF, honest!!

[Selmer mk6]

I am not sure you can compare a IS300 with a Jaguar XF-R. Performance and sound alone would have the IS beat. Plus the XF-R would be compared to the GS - F. The XE is the main rival. Back to your question. I have driven an IS300 and as much as it is smooth and preferred over a diesel, the gearbox is not that great. I would take the Jag (not the diesel one).

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Selmer mk6 said:

I am not sure you can compare a IS300 with a Jaguar XF-R. Performance and sound alone would have the IS beat. Plus the XF-R would be compared to the GS - F. The XE is the main rival. Back to your question. I have driven an IS300 and as much as it is smooth and preferred over a diesel, the gearbox is not that great. I would take the Jag (not the diesel one).

You are mistaken. He said Jag XF R Sport not XF-R which doesn't actually exist yet in the new model

CVT is fine for driving. 95% of people have no issue with it and some don't really know the car has a CVT 

[Selmer mk6]

My mistake about the XF, I thought it was a bit of a strange comparison.

The CVT box maybe fine for most driving conditions, but when you want some spirited driving, it is not that responsive. The GS 450h is much better.

[Zotto]

Ehm, GS 450h has eCVT too , but  also 120 HP more than IS 300h.

[rayaans]

59 minutes ago, Selmer mk6 said:

My mistake about the XF, I thought it was a bit of a strange comparison.

The CVT box maybe fine for most driving conditions, but when you want some spirited driving, it is not that responsive. The GS 450h is much better.

I can't say it's any less responsive than the 2.0d XF though. It does have quite evident turbo lag

[ganzoom]

14 hours ago, Selmer mk6 said:

My mistake about the XF, I thought it was a bit of a strange comparison.

The CVT box maybe fine for most driving conditions, but when you want some spirited driving, it is not that responsive. The GS 450h is much better.

Most people buying Jags are going for diesels, I bet 95% of buyers couldn't careless about 'spirited driving'. Diesels need to be banned from the roads, and the sooner the better, if for no other reason just to get riddle of that horrific rattling from roads.....Sitting in traffic in the summer with the windows down is horrific experience these days, all you hear around you is constant 'rattle rattle rattle' and than you get to smell the toxic stuff coming out of the exhausts.

Why anyone would even consider a diesel in this day/age of hybrids is beyond me??

[capese21]

21 hours ago, Selmer mk6 said:

The CVT box maybe fine for most driving conditions, but when you want some spirited driving, it is not that responsive

Stick it in sport and manual and use the paddles with the ASC on and it is fun and pretty fast.  For most of the time on the congested UK roads the E-CVT makes a lot of sense.  I would struggle to go back to a diesel.

[Selmer mk6]

Don't get me wrong, comparing the IS with a diesel, the IS wins hands down. Not so sure about petrol cars though. Strangely the hybrid versions of the German brands don't seem to sell well in the UK. Also the IS300h always seems to be compared against diesels and not other hybrids, but that's another topic.

 

[rayaans]

35 minutes ago, Selmer mk6 said:

Don't get me wrong, comparing the IS with a diesel, the IS wins hands down. Not so sure about petrol cars though. Strangely the hybrid versions of the German brands don't seem to sell well in the UK. Also the IS300h always seems to be compared against diesels and not other hybrids, but that's another topic.

 

German hybrids are generally more expensive than the equivalent diesels though and some aren't very well executed as they are noticeable in termsof vibrations when it switches from electric to combustion etc

[dutchie01]

propably differs per country.  here in The Netherlands hybrids and plug ins receive large fiscal benefits that can save the driver of a companycar several hundreds of euroś per month. That is the driver behind the rapidly expanding hybrid fleet overhere. ( number of hybrids doubled in 2015 compared to 2014). number one is the mitsubishi phev plug in but all VW group brands, mercedes, volvo etc are all available too. Lexus is just not a mainstream brand and regardless of engine option is likely to remain attractive for a relalively small group of enthusiasts. By the way Lexus also has its share of drivetrainvibrations my car was heavily affected, now ok after dealer did some sort of upgrade. 

 

 

 

 

[dutchie01]

not everyone has a free choice of car. companycars are mainly diesels and honestly for a rep driving up and down the country and doing 50k miles per year or more a diesel is just cheaper to run. (until the moment they start to increase fuelprices or roadtax on dieselcars to dampen demand for environmental reasons). 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

not everyone has a free choice of car. companycars are mainly diesels and honestly for a rep driving up and down the country and doing 50k miles per year or more a diesel is just cheaper to run. (until the moment they start to increase fuelprices or roadtax on dieselcars to dampen demand for environmental reasons). 

Thats not true, even company car buyers can choose what cars they can have from a selection. If they don't like them, they can take a pay increase instead....... well Kelloggs does that anyway and the sales managers are running around in £70k cars.

[dutchie01]

not sure how this works in the uk but in Holland the large companies provide a list of cars to choose from which is connected to your position in the company. Thing is on this list are only green label A cars, so downsized turbocharged efficient ones diesels, hybrids or plug in hybrids. and that is it , No options outside the list. If you dont like your car in the UK and opt for the pay increase how does that translate? can you run your own car from that?

[rayaans]

18 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

not sure how this works in the uk but in Holland the large companies provide a list of cars to choose from which is connected to your position in the company. Thing is on this list are only green label A cars, so downsized turbocharged efficient ones diesels, hybrids or plug in hybrids. and that is it , No options outside the list. If you dont like your car in the UK and opt for the pay increase how does that translate? can you run your own car from that?

Some companies offer extra money if you dont opt for the company car and you can basically choose what you want. Its usually the same amount as what the company would have leased the cars they offered as company car to you.

So for example, if they offer you cars which are £300 per month, you can choose from their list, or you get roughly that amount in cash and get your own car for £350 a month so essentially you're only paying £50 per month.

[ColinBarber]

Many employers stopped their company car schemes altogether and just pay their employees a car allowance. This isn't ideal from an employee point of view because you are just a private buyer without discounts that come with purchasing through a large company however you can choose what you want, including purchasing a newly-new car for a lot less money.

Lexus however seem to be completely geared up to selling to company car owners. Their number one priority is to get into certain tax/emissions brackets to make company car owners pay less tax.

[Selmer mk6]

It is not going to be easy. Approximately 80% of company cars reported to HMRC are diesels. As a city car with occasional long journeys the IS is great. Quiet and smooth around town. However, for those people who travel 30,000 miles or so, I think a diesel will be more cost effective. 

Having said that I have only owned a diesel for two weeks (morning start up was horrendous) a 450h for the weekend and 20 minutes in a 300h.

[Ian J. Parsley]

My father-in-law has a Jaguar XF Sportbrake (I don't know the precise trim).

I like the styling and it has some nice touches, but I'm unconvinced, frankly!

I do wonder if the IS is the right comparator, however. Is a GS300h an option?

[Zotto]

Yes, GS 300h, and if you like extreme  performance a GS 450h.

[DanD]

I am not sure it is fair to compare the IS with an XF.

It would be more appropriate to compare the IS with the XE and the GS with the XF.