Catalytic converter security

[Howplum]

We have a couple of friends who have had the CC stolen from their Prius, which I appreciate are target vehicles. As a result my wife is concerned about my LS400 suffering a similar fate. I believe it's unlikely because of its age and a thief wouldn't know the mileage, which could be a factor. Has anyone had them stolen?

[runsgrateasanut]

I would assume that they are not easy to remove - certainly from the earlier cars like my own. To get to the upper part would be difficult.

 

 

[BigBoomer]

They could only get at the secondary Cat from underneath and those are not worth much so they probably won't bother.

The Prius Cat is vulnerable to being cut of in just a few minutes as are many Cats on 4x4s, SUVs, and Crossovers.

[Spacewagon52]

A friend had his Honda CR-V (2007 2,0 litre)  cat stolen. They were gone in under 4 minutes. A neighbour saw them - a big guy with a crow bar threatened the neighbour, sadly he was unable to get the reg plate. This took place in the middle of nowhere completely off the beaten track! at 3 am. Older cars seem to be more susceptible.

[Howplum]

My inclination is that the car is unlikely to be targeted because of accessibility issues and age, but thank you for your replies. 

[Cotswold Pete]

I have started noticing Prius taxis with 'This car is fitted with a cat cage' on the side, it is a shame  that dishonest people (polite term) feel the need to nick what is not theirs.

[Supafly]

I don't think there's any danger of our LS400 cats being stolen, you only really have access to the bottom end of the cat and the top end is tucked up alongside the engine block.  

It would take them too long and would be easier for them to find a more convenient target.

On my road we've had thefts from four cars across all times of the day, the last two in broad daylight in the early afternoon.  Pruis, Auris, Honda were the targets.

[BigBoomer]

Hybrids and SUVs are at high risk of CAT theft. RX & NX Lexuses are at risk.
SUVs simply because the thief can just squeeze under the car and cut it off. No jack needed.
Hybrids because the Hybrid drive leaves little room in the engine bay for the CAT so it gets pushed further back under the car where it's accessible with a rapid jack and a reciprocating saw.
The thieves are mostly not interested in older vehicles.
If you have a vulnerable vehicle and are worried, there are plenty of aftermarket "shields" available. These simply make it harder for the thief so they are going to take longer to get the CAT off which means higher risk of getting caught.
Most manufacturers are already taking action to prevent CAT theft by fitting undertrays or shields on new cars.

[ColinBarber]

46 minutes ago, BigBoomer said:

Hybrids because the Hybrid drive leaves little room in the engine bay for the CAT so it gets pushed further back under the car where it's accessible with a rapid jack and a reciprocating saw.

Toyota/Lexus hybrids are identical to their petrol vehicles in exhaust design. Primary cats in the exhaust manifold/downpipe section within the engine bay and secondary cat(s) underneath. A RX400h is no different to a LS430 in this respect.

[toffee_pie]

Wife had cat from her Jazz taken a few years ago - in front of her hotel where she worked and on CCTV, you could even see the Honda getting lifted up and down again a few minutes later and a Passat speeding off - but the plod of course does nothing. They phone back a few months later telling me we were at the hotel and the footage is gone, duh

Subaru has 3 cats and like the LS400 not easy to take off, too low down on the ground and way too much faff for scum, you can’t get OEM ones anymore and if you did, they would cost thousands and aftermarket ones have a tendency to send bits into the engine and destroy it. 

[Wolfie1959]

Just had the cat stolen on my RX400h.  Takes 30 seconds apparently.  I've now had a cat lock fitted at £400.  Hoping it deters them.  Fingers crossed they don't come back.  Won't park in station car park anymore because of that.

 

 

[BigBoomer]

And I'm guessing the station car park that you pay a small fortune for had no/crappy CCTV that showed nothing of any use to the Police? 
The CAT shields seem to deter them as it makes it a much longer job.
What you really need is air-suspension so that when parked you can drop it so low that they can't even get a jack under it! 
 

[LenT]

On 9/18/2022 at 11:55 AM, Howplum said:

We have a couple of friends who have had the CC stolen from their Prius, which I appreciate are target vehicles. As a result my wife is concerned about my LS400 suffering a similar fate. I believe it's unlikely because of its age and a thief wouldn't know the mileage, which could be a factor. Has anyone had them stolen?

Not an LS400 but an IS250!  And not about stolen cats, either.

Although this model has a main cat in the engine bay - and effectively inaccessible - and two smaller ones under the car - Lexus MK tells me that they’ve never had an instance of cat theft on this model.  Probably these rear cats are too small to justify the risk.

However our local Police has been running an awareness campaign and is promoting this security etching kit.  While the car is up on a hoist at its next service, I think I’ll get the Dealer to apply it.

Meanwhile, I’ll just apply the window stickers - which I think may well be be just as effective and suitable for any car!

After all, who’s going to waste time, and expose themselves to the risk of discovery, just to check if it’s a bluff?

Rather like the dummy burglar alarms that people fit on houses, it’s safer for chummy just to move on to one that doesn’t have any signs of security!

https://www.catalyticconvertertheft.com/catalytic-converter-theft-kit

[toffee_pie]

23 minutes ago, LenT said:

Not an LS400 but an IS250!  And not about stolen cats, either.

Although this model has a main cat in the engine bay - and effectively inaccessible - and two smaller ones under the car - Lexus MK tells me that they’ve never had an instance of cat theft on this model.  Probably these rear cats are too small to justify the risk.

However our local Police has been running an awareness campaign and is promoting this security etching kit.  While the car is up on a hoist at its next service, I think I’ll get the Dealer to apply it.

Meanwhile, I’ll just apply the window stickers - which I think may well be be just as effective and suitable for any car!

After all, who’s going to waste time, and expose themselves to the risk of discovery, just to check if it’s a bluff?

Rather like the dummy burglar alarms that people fit on houses, it’s safer for chummy just to move on to one that doesn’t have any signs of security!

https://www.catalyticconvertertheft.com/catalytic-converter-theft-kit

what good is 'security etching' if its some dye visible under UV light what good is that - the scumbags wont be taking a UV light under the car - it will be pulled off, the cat - whether they sell it on afterwards is beside the point but its highly unlikely they wont be able to get money for it.

The plod wont do anything about this at all

 

[toffee_pie]

7 hours ago, BigBoomer said:

And I'm guessing the station car park that you pay a small fortune for had no/crappy CCTV that showed nothing of any use to the Police? 
The CAT shields seem to deter them as it makes it a much longer job.
What you really need is air-suspension so that when parked you can drop it so low that they can't even get a jack under it! 
 

even if the CCTV did have footage the plod wont do anything, if my experience is anything to go by, you can see in the news how bad they are these days

[LenT]

2 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

what good is 'security etching' if its some dye visible under UV light what good is that - the scumbags wont be taking a UV light under the car - it will be pulled off, the cat - whether they sell it on afterwards is beside the point but its highly unlikely they wont be able to get money for it.

The plod wont do anything about this at all

 

If you had followed the link I provided, Eric, all would have been clear.

This is not a dye marking system but a metal etching process which permanently marks the surface with an individual code that links to a central register.

Now I can’t speak for your local ‘plod’ but the point of this exercise is that it’s co-ordinated with regular sweeps of the type of scrap merchants who recycle catalytic converters.  The obvious reason why the Police are so keen on this marking is that if they find a marked Cat they can immediately identify it as stolen.

Knowing this, the scrap merchants are not so keen on buying these particular items which, in turn, means that there’s less incentive to steal them in the first place!

If you think about it, it’s obviously easier for a thief to move on to the next car than waste time finding out if it was a bluff or not!

[toffee_pie]

8 minutes ago, LenT said:

his is not a dye marking system but a metal etching process which permanently marks the surface with an individual code that links to a central register.

And scum bags will give two hoots about this? They remove these in 3 minutes do you think they will spend 10 minutes looking for a marking on them to deter said scumbag going about his business? The key to this is time - they are removed so quickly it evades everyone and they move onto another car - its a day job to these folk, I very much doubt they go looking for markings and the skilled ones can tell the difference between a OEM cat ($$$$$$) and an aftermarket one ($) and just move onto another car if the latter is fitted.

[royoftherovers]

7 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

And scum bags will give two hoots about this? They remove these in 3 minutes do you think they will spend 10 minutes looking for a marking on them to deter said scumbag going about his business? The key to this is time - they are removed so quickly it evades everyone and they move onto another car - its a day job to these folk, I very much doubt they go looking for markings and the skilled ones can tell the difference between a OEM cat ($$$$$$) and an aftermarket one ($) and just move onto another car if the latter is fitted.

Eric, there is a top job going in the HOME OFFICE I think might suit you.🤣👍

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Eric, there is a top job going in the HOME OFFICE I think might suit you.🤣👍

This is England in the year 2022

[royoftherovers]

18 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

This is England in the year 2022

But you could build a team of like minded people around you Eric.

Go on , you know it makes sense! 🤣

[LenT]

10 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

And scum bags will give two hoots about this? They remove these in 3 minutes do you think they will spend 10 minutes looking for a marking on them to deter said scumbag going about his business?

Any 'scum bag' who needs 10 minutes to register the security label should probably be in a different line of business!

As the Marking Kit clearly shows, these are relatively large and distinctive labels designed to be located on the most prominent part of the unit.  They'll be obvious as soon as the car is jacked up.  They won't delay the cat's removal - but its disposal now becomes a very different matter.

Since the 2013 Scrap Metal Dealers Act, trading in stolen metal has become a considerably riskier business.  But how effective is marking anyway, I expect you're asking?

Well, between 19th and 23rd Apri 2021, 'Operation Goldiron', during which 926 sites were visited, retrieved a total of 1,037 stolen catalytic converters (along with 297 other items of stolen property) and resulted in 56 arrests, stopped 664 vehicles and identified 244 other offences.

This level of success suggests to me that stealing a marked unit has probably become less attractive than simply moving on to the next car whose owner doesn't think marking is worth doing!

And when you consider that the total cost of a stolen unit (my guess here) could be upwards of a £1K - even if it's covered by Insurance - when you include loss of excess, increased premiums, time without car while waiting for replacement, and such like, spending £25 on this Marking Kit strikes me as being a rather sensible investment.

 

[BigBoomer]

From what I have heard the current "process" for these scum is to pack the CATs into a container and then send it abroad marked as scrap metal for recycling.
They get sent somewhere that is less rigorous about determining where the CATs come from for recycling.
If you have a known vulnerable car, your best bet is probably to fit one of the plates that make it a PITA to get the CAT off but marking is cheaper and easier and may deter some of them.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

But you could build a team of like minded people around you Eric.

Go on , you know it makes sense! 🤣

I don't think it's like minded, most people know what I have previously said it's not like it's classified information 

[toffee_pie]

15 minutes ago, BigBoomer said:

From what I have heard the current "process" for these scum is to pack the CATs into a container and then send it abroad marked as scrap metal for recycling.
They get sent somewhere that is less rigorous about determining where the CATs come from for recycling.
If you have a known vulnerable car, your best bet is probably to fit one of the plates that make it a PITA to get the CAT off but marking is cheaper and easier and may deter some of them.

Marking cats with serial numbers or whatever is useless, like I said even with that done they will already have the car damaged even if they go oh no that's flagged up need to move on to something else. A shield is the best bet

Parking your car can make a difference too, don't park in a quiet area - the more difficult it is to access the car the higher chance they will move onto something else. It's exactly the same as what these scum do for everything. 

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

Any 'scum bag' who needs 10 minutes to register the security label should probably be in a different line of business!

As the Marking Kit clearly shows, these are relatively large and distinctive labels designed to be located on the most prominent part of the unit.  They'll be obvious as soon as the car is jacked up.  They won't delay the cat's removal - but its disposal now becomes a very different matter.

Since the 2013 Scrap Metal Dealers Act, trading in stolen metal has become a considerably riskier business.  But how effective is marking anyway, I expect you're asking?

Well, between 19th and 23rd Apri 2021, 'Operation Goldiron', during which 926 sites were visited, retrieved a total of 1,037 stolen catalytic converters (along with 297 other items of stolen property) and resulted in 56 arrests, stopped 664 vehicles and identified 244 other offences.

This level of success suggests to me that stealing a marked unit has probably become less attractive than simply moving on to the next car whose owner doesn't think marking is worth doing!

And when you consider that the total cost of a stolen unit (my guess here) could be upwards of a £1K - even if it's covered by Insurance - when you include loss of excess, increased premiums, time without car while waiting for replacement, and such like, spending £25 on this Marking Kit strikes me as being a rather sensible investment.

 

Scumbag won't give two hoots about this, if you think hardened criminals are getting all soft about this you need to sharpen up a bit, do experts that you love not tell you criminals will get whatever it is they want to get done, they have resources - like exporting it, it's not like they will be extracting precious metals from cats next door to a police HQ in Birmingham or whatever - A Prius is going to be a target with or without a sticker saying that the cat is marked