Getting the back out!

[Jimmy Ten Toes]

I just gave it some stick coming out of Tesco's round a quite sharp corner in 1st. It all got a bit sideways and I had to give it some opposite lock and lift off. Surely the traction control and/or limited slip diff should have sorted this out for me. Do you think this is a fault with my car or can you get the back out with traction control on etc?

[Jimmy Ten Toes]

It was dry and the tyres are fine. I was too busy at the time to notice if the traction control came on, but it has come on in the past and the power loss was noticable. This time the only power loss was when I lifted off as I saw the boot overtaking me!

[DaveEllen]

had the same happen to me y/day.......was wet and it had been dry for a while so i was NOT being silly.....went round a big r/bout and oooooooops out she went.........no lights came on !! tyres are ok 4mm on rear 6 mm on front.....

certainly woke me up:cool:

[brn7y]

What you have to do is practice holding the rear end out just that little bit longer, It makes them think you did it on purpose as apposed to by accident!!

[Jimmy Ten Toes]

Must find somewhere to practice. Need to catch it earlier and control the slide. In hindsight Tesco's was not the best place to try it.....too many people.

[Risky3301]

All RWD drive cars step out at the back when pushed hard enough, as for LSD, this only stops wheel spin, ie ICE, Snow, boy racer pull aways, Traction Control only works when on wheel looses traction, (spinning)

LSD with Traction control is a bit of gimmic really.

So I am told the only time they really work well together is in snow and ice when you switch on the ice button.

[lexicon]

Originally posted by Risky3301

All RWD drive cars step out at the back when pushed hard enough, as for LSD, this only stops wheel spin, ie ICE, Snow, boy racer pull aways, Traction Control only works when on wheel looses traction, (spinning)

and the reason the back comes out is.....

I don't have the LSD, so can't comment about that aspect, but it's entirely possible to drift the back around before the TC cuts in - this is a good thing surely :bounce:

[Risky3301]

Quote:but it's entirely possible to drift the back around before the TC cuts in - this is a good thing surely :bounce:

Yes that's very true, when the TC comes in, you should gain control, because the TC reduces engine speed, but think about it, many people have had the back end step when they are not expecting it happen and usally hit a lamp post that's near by.

[Grangey]

Originally posted by Jimmy Ten Toes

I just gave it some stick coming out of Tesco's round a quite sharp corner in 1st. It all got a bit sideways and I had to give it some opposite lock and lift off. Surely the traction control and/or limited slip diff should have sorted this out for me. Do you think this is a fault with my car or can you get the back out with traction control on etc?

I didn't know Tesco had started fitting their trolleys with Traction Control!!

Mine stepped out in the wet - the TC light came on OK. I've just come back to RWD after 15 years with RWD. Got to get used to it again.......

Do the IS's have LSD?

[vic]

It's funny..I havent seen a single post about this on this site, but before i bought my IS I was reading a load of reviews about the IS200 sport on yahoo(I think) There were a load of people on there who were complaining about the sport losing traction & going out of control...they were saying that it was a possible problem with the LSD on the sports & lexus was looking into it??? But I own a sport & the only time I experienced something like that was when I fitted four brand new tyres & shot off down the road (Like an idiot!!) without thinking about the new tyre film...needles to say I did a 360 degree spin at the first crossroads I came too & luckily got away without a scratch!!!

[Jimmy Ten Toes]

I took it to my local Lexus dealer to get it checked out and we went for a test drive. The engineer was fair enough and said he didn't want to drive my car hard, but we took out one of their IS200 Sports (for about an hour overall). He drove it very hard and we got wheel spin several times and also got it sideways. We even took it on some grass.

It turns out that traction control will kick in but not immediately. He came to the conclusion it was something to do with the LSD on the Sports, as the SE's and S's will not let you spin the wheels at all.

I think with the LSD it does not let one wheel spin more than the other and makes it harder for the traction control to pick up wheel spin. He said he had never noticed the difference before and had learnt something about Sports! What does everyone else think?

[ricky_is200]

I've managed to get my SE to spin the back out sidewards a couple of times, once was very similar to DaveEllen, on a round about when it had just rained, I increased the throttle and out she came and I wasn't able to correct it. I now take roundabouts a lot slower! I was quite surprised how easily it had happened. I don’t think the basic traction control we have is as good as the stability control fitted to BMW’s etc.

Just had a look on the Lexus website, the IS300 advertises ‘Vehicle Stability Control’ but not the IS200.

A BMW 3 series comes with:

Automatic stability control & traction (ASC+T)

Cornering Brake Control(CBC)

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)

[Chris.S]

I've managed quite a few times in my SE to get the rear wheels wheel spinning buy only on a damp or wet road.The only time I've had the back end come loose is when its been snowing or there is slush about

[Wallace]

Same here Chris, touch wood. Only had a blip in the snow, then the TRC kicked in. Never had any probs on roundabouts, thats tempting fate:wow:

[altezzaz]

I've had a half spin in mine and I swear the traction control didn't come on at all - it was wet and I was pushing on, but I figure it's there to let you pull off the line smoothly, not a stability control device (potential future enhancement?)

[Monster-Mat]

if you dont know how to drive rear wheel...........learn,all this talk about stability this and trac that....bollocks,drive a car for the fun,dont hope that some computer brain will keep the seat of your pants clean............

a car is a machine,it will handle like a machine if you dont learn its traits..........

ive never lost the back,had it skip out,unless ive made it do it,i always drive my car with TRAC switched off,i like to be in controle,the worst thing for rear wheel drive was the invention of front wheel drive......people have forgot how to drive real cars

when you do learn,the feeling will be better

bring on the track days......

here you will learn HOW to hande;l your car at your own pace without fear of damaging your pride and joy

mat

[ricky_is200]

I agree Mat. The first thing I thought of after my round about incident was I need to go on a skid or performance driving course!

But... other manufactures do fit devices/gadgets to help stop this happening other than basic traction control.

[altezzaz]

Mat - that's what I meant - you can't expect a wheelspin controller to stop the back end coming around (basically the point of this post??) but itwouldn't hurt to have it there to maintain you're peace of mind on a greasy road.

So when are the track days?

[Risky3301]

With all this talk about control devices, please remember they are only as good as the person who wrote the software and designed the hardware and believe me, all testing in world will not iron all the bugs, never rely on a piece of hardware or software to get you out of trouble and always remember the following

1st what ever you do when the back steps out is DON'T TOUCH THE BRAKE PEDDLE

2nd Always Steer into the slide, Hence The term 'OPPERSITE LOCK'

If you want to improve your driving technic and learn how control car at high speed and skidding, then do a DRIVE and SURVIVE course.

[Ezzer]

Quote:

A BMW 3 series comes with:

Automatic stability control & traction (ASC+T)

Cornering Brake Control(CBC)

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)

A Lexus IS200 comes with:

Traction control = ASC+T or very very similar.

EBD and the best brakes with great pedal feel in the business (stops fast than a boxster). With good ABS action. So arguablibly, better than having CBC since u'd have stopped by then.

No DSC unless cars with VSC which is the same thing..... BUT: If u dive into a corner too fast, no DSC will be able to save you.

In fact, as a good example where one should not rely on ANY of these: I used to own a Smart car, with the more powerful engine. RWD and Mid/rear engine, very light car. Eco tyres. At the time, it probably had the world's most sophisticated electronic drivers' aid mostly due to the Merc A-Class incident and the smart could have been more prone to that. I managed to do one of the best power slides I have ever done in it, with no intervention from anything. Nuff said.

[lewispv]

If you really want to try a car "stepping out" then go borrow a Lotus Elise, power round a corner and take your foot off !!

Ooops, is that the back end coming to meet me.

I had the embarrasment of doing that on a test driving day, and took the timing the timing equipment along with me.

:(