Pads and discs

[MLW]

Lexus Direct are doing front and rear disc/pad sets all in for £384. 19p.

Mine will need doing soonish. Is there anything better for the money. Always been happy with Pagid, but are brembo better?

I have followed the debate here with genuine Lexus not always being everyone's favourite.

What to do?

[Tinonline]

I’m not a slave to OEM but I do prefer it.

OEM brakes are the dog’s b’s and are fit and forget (notwithstanding servicing clean) for miles.

I’ve just fitted Blue Print filters, Fuchs oil for this years’ budget service and I’m delighted with the results. I sprayed the MAF with MAF cleaner and the works are smoother and quieter than ever. I didn’t expect it at all.

OEM may be made by various manufacturers but parts are made to manufacturer specification. Jarrid do Merc brakes and Gates do Merc pulleys and aux belts…but to Merc spec.

I have OEM brakes all round. 👍

[rayaans]

Pagid nowadays arent what they once were and I believe are owned by the same company as Euro car parts which is why they tend to try to flog those. brembo is a good brand and does have better anti-corrosion properties. i.e. they stop rust better.

 

[Supafly]

Another vote for the oem stuff.  When I bought my LS400 the seller had just fitted blue print pads to the front, they didn't last very long and performance wasn't great for hard stops.  99.9% of the time they were ok.

I then fitted lexus pads all round but with Pagid discs, so far so good, noticeably better than the blue print pads and have already outlasted them multiple times over.

I have noticed a little bit of noise though at low speed braking.  I've seen some other threads where people have complained of the same noise on Lexus pads.  I initially thought it might be because of the pagid discs I used, but seems to be affecting a few people with lexus pads.  Next time round I'll be replacing it all with OEM including new fitting kits (which are pricey).

[Tinonline]

You do get a bit of drag sound with OEM pads but they have ceramic content and it may depend upon temperature?

Rayaans mentioned brembo and I rate them. They have, thus far, retained quality having come into the mainstream market and dumped their prices. Btw Blueprint air filter: ok but change every year; carbon cabin filter is very good. Some Blueprint items are high priced for the acceptable quality…

[Howplum]

I recently fitted EBC Ultimax pads to my BMW and am impressed. Apparently the Ultimax are intended for normal use. They produce less dust and bite well straight out of the box. Made in Britain apparently. It looks as though they do both pads and discs for your model, so it might be worth checking out. 

[messi]

You do know the oem brake pads and discs are texstar, and you can get them much cheaper from your local car spares shop. And I mean much much cheaper 

[MLW]

My old Mercedes had Textar (3 star Mercedes star stamped on the backplate). Are Textar so good now?

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, rayaans said:

Pagid nowadays arent what they once were and I believe are owned by the same company as Euro car parts which is why they tend to try to flog those. Brembo is a good brand and does have better anti-corrosion properties. i.e. they stop rust better.

I don't believe they have anything to do with LKQ, which is who owns ECP, other than a supplier relationship.

Pagid are owned by the same company that owns Textar and Mintex, amongst others.

 

As with most companies, they have a range of products to fit different price categories and needs. Pagid have some good products and some budget products. The same as brembo, with some people here getting RC F brakes that corrode and others with coating on them which prevents this.

[messi]

9 hours ago, MLW said:

My old Mercedes had Textar (3 star Mercedes star stamped on the backplate). Are Textar so good now?

Textar are very good. 

[Tinonline]

As mentioned it’s no good skipping down the motor factor and buying cheap Textar, Javid et al pads they are not the same spec that these manufacturers give to the vehicle manufacturer.

Take Denso coil on plugs: even supplied to Jaguar in the 2000’s these failed regularly so they were a service item. Denso units to Lexus? Long lifetime of the vehicle! 

[Tinonline]

31 minutes ago, messi said:

Textar are very good. 

My Merc was fitted with them too going back a few years. My Independent Merc garage gave up sourcing Textar from distributors and went back to buying Textar from Merc as they were getting too many unhappy customers complaining about squealing brakes. 

[cruisermark]

I have to disagree with OEM on this one

I bought and fitted pads for my LS430 from LPD (Textar). Didn't think much of them at the time.

After having them fitted I noticed they made a ssshhh sound at slow speeds and they gave alot of brake dust.

I have now replaced them with EBC Ultimax - these are better in every sense - cheaper, smoother braking - good bite and zero dust.

 

 

[messi]

22 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

I have to disagree with OEM on this one

I bought and fitted pads for my LS430 from LPD (Textar). Didn't think much of them at the time.

After having them fitted I noticed they made a ssshhh sound at slow speeds and they gave alot of brake dust.

I have now replaced them with EBC Ultimax - these are better in every sense - cheaper, smoother braking - good bite and zero dust.

 

 

Sorry i they ain't that good. Not sure why I said they were good. I replaced mine for green stuff pads, no brake dust or squealing.

 

[MLW]

I am on Pagid at the moment and they are fine with good feel and bite. They seem to last well too, although most of my motoring is motorway/dual carriage way cruising.

[plastic orange]

In the 12 years I had my LS i went through 4 sets of discs/pads. First were genuine items which looking at the car's history it had several sets in the past and had a relatively recent set  when I got it with 121k on the clock. These were replaced after doing about 20k due to the usual brake shimmy with a Blueprint set. These only managed 10k before the shake started, and they produced loads of dust. Next was Pagid discs with Ferodo pads, and these were the best combo in my opinion,  and when I couldn't get ferodo pads any more the pads were replaced with pagid items which produced a lot of dust. The dreaded shake started at around 20k of use, getting worse as time went on. Just before I sold the car I fitted a set of EBC discs and pads which again solved the shake problem and car was moved on with the brakes barely bedded in, but no dust produced.

[cruisermark]

i've had ferrodo in the past on my Mark 4 - they are well suited to this car - smooth braking with no groan when coming to a stop

[Barry14UK]

As regards brake pads, there is a lot of confusion because several brands can be owned by one Company/Group.  One of the biggest is TMD Friction whose brands include Textar, Nisshinko, Mintex, Don, Pagid and Cobreq.  Then within the brands there are different qualities. Sometimes the backing plates from one brand can include friction material from another and there is a measure of rebranding.

As it happens, I am about to fit new front discs and pads to my RX 450h.  The pads 04465-48190 Toyota/Lexus.. The backplates has TEXTAR T4146FF  477-XUL1  TOYOTA stamped into it.  The box says made in Japan whereas Textar website says 'MANUFACTURED IN-HOUSE We don’t go shopping for our brake pads; as a global manufacturer of friction products, you can rest assured that Textar has been manufactured to the highest standards at our in-house facilities. All Textar pads are manufactured in Europe.' 

Incidentally, the pads have fine metal inclusions, whereas for a near identical car in the USA, the discs and pads are different and interestingly, Akosombo, a leading pad brand and said to be OEM, are ceramic and without the metal  inclusions.  The RX450h is also made in Canada so may have a bearing.

Textar are one of the OEM pad brands used by BMW and when a forum member complained about his Textar pads bought from ECP squealing, he was refunded by them having then bought Textar direct from BMW. Regardless of other considerations, there was an obvious difference in as much as in one case there was a gap down the centre of the pad and none from the other.  This supports the allegation found on several forums that ECP have an arrangement for a cheaper range of Textar and Pagid pads from those fitted by car manufacturers on their cars as OEM and sold as official replacements. 

There are very interesting contributions on Mercedes forum from a person who was highly involved professionally with  discs and pads.  I will try to find and post it.

[Barry14UK]

ok, found it, a rather long thread.  Start by reading comments by 'deleted member 159235', starting on 16th Dec 2020, somebody who obviously has some considerable knowledge of the subject if self opinionated.  https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/eurobrake-brake-pads.235389/

[shanra]

Fitted original Lexus discs and pads all round about five years ago and they are perfect.

[Malc1]

31 minutes ago, shanra said:

all round about five years ago

and the mileage covered in that time ?

Thanks

Malc

[shanra]

Malc it's done 26,000 miles and all is still good. I did have calipers refurbed at the same time.

[MLW]

UPDATE

Sorry for the delay. Eventually went with Lexus discs and pads. Now they cost about £420 delivered. I was going to do them myself but in the end got my local F1 Autocenter to do them as it is so much easier up in the air. £140 for the lot including a brake fluid change. After about 300 miles they are nicely bedded in. Much more bite and much improved. Lexus Direct were actually cheaper than Pagid. I wonder who makes them for Lexus.

[ambermarine]

Lexus get the OEM brake units from at least three suppliers for supply security and competitive pricing .Further down the road that can end up aftermarket dependant on who as the capacity. Even giants like Toyota cannot risk having all their eggs in one basket.

[Redefined]

I do about 8000 miles in a few months of motorway. Been doing so for the past 5 years or so. Had thw dreaded brake shake on various 3L Subaru Legacies of which I had various theories thrown at me. Had em skimmed, replaced, calipers refurbed and also plenty of different discs tried.

 

To cut a long story short, my shake would usually come back after about 1k miles which I completed in a week or few. Finally hot rid of the problem with the ebc discs with dimples. Think partly i was causing them to overheat by rallying it around a bit much (sorry).

I have the shakes on the current car and it's definitely coming from the front. They're definitely not siezed calipers as they (pistons) move freely and the wheels also spin freely when jacked up. I'm probably gonna go for some EBC but the ones with dimples are expensive on for the Lexus.

 

For the record I found Bosch and that cheap German brand (I'll find the name) were both as rubbish as one another. As were the ewe or rwe (or something with 3 letters and spunds like an American drag race car)... My problem lasted about 3 years or 4 😆