Rant, incoming..

[steve2006]

I would at this point be thinking of having the suspension checked at an independent garage looking specifically for damaged or new components as it does appear to have been taken out of the dealership and driven.

[Malc1]

sadly so very few people care a monkey's about customer care these days and fail to accept or even realise that it's the customer that pays their wages and keeps the business going ,,,,,,,,,,,,, Cest le vie ........  it probably won't change all the while money grabbing is to the fore

HOWEVER .......... I would certainly take on board Steve's thoughts above and maybe invite the Dealer along to the Event with your chosen specialist to see at first hand what's going on in your mind

Something might trigger an ounce of realism that all's not well with his Lexus business

Just a thought

Malc

[Phil xxkr]

Symptomatic of a wider malaise in customer care. Many years ago American companies were advising UK insurers methods for wriggling out of paying out claims. I see a similar strategy being played out here where anything like a valid complaint is turned around so in fact it's your fault and not theirs. Various techniques are employed to achieve this the one I like the most is where even the remotest robust support of your complaint is deemed "aggressive" therefore will not be entertained. 

[royoftherovers]

7 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Symptomatic of a wider malaise in customer care. Many years ago American companies were advising UK insurers methods for wriggling out of paying out claims. I see a similar strategy being played out here where anything like a valid complaint is turned around so in fact it's your fault and not theirs. Various techniques are employed to achieve this the one I like the most is where even the remotest robust support of your complaint is deemed "aggressive" therefore will not be entertained. 

Phil`s Posting is not too wide of the mark.

One sees evidence of it in Doctors` Surgeries, Chemists, Hospitals and Retail Outlets.

Always try to be both firm and fair. Keep copious notes of all events if possible, be accompanied if appropriate and escalate within the hierarchy. If the Dealer Principal (the Top Guy) within  a Motor Dealership is unwilling to assist, then escalate to Lexus U.K. naming names situations and outcomes.

Good luck.

[NemesisUK]

The most important thing is to remain polite and calm. That very first interaction with whomever will set the tone for future negotiations.

Having been on the receiving end of customer complaints myself if the customer comes in all guns blazing or starts off with abusive language and accusations my shutters come done and I'm not inclined to help! That said usually my first question to the customer is "what is the outcome you are looking for?", helps focus the discussions and often reveals the customer isn't clear in their own mind what they expect! 

[Phil xxkr]

38 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

The most important thing is to remain polite and calm. That very first interaction with whomever will set the tone for future negotiations.

Having been on the receiving end of customer complaints myself if the customer comes in all guns blazing or starts off with abusive language and accusations my shutters come done and I'm not inclined to help! That said usually my first question to the customer is "what is the outcome you are looking for?", helps focus the discussions and often reveals the customer isn't clear in their own mind what they expect! 

Good technique Peter. But I also think firms just don't get the value in listening to a customer complaint and see it as a way to learn and improve as a consequence and not personal destructive criticism. 

[royoftherovers]

7 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Good technique Peter. But I also think firms just don't get the value in listening to a customer complaint and see it as a way to learn and improve as a consequence and not personal destructive criticism. 

You are quite right Phil.

I complained recently to a Doctors` Surgery about its process for handling requests to see/speak to, a Doctor.

The Office Manger responded to me (following her return from holiday?) and had the cheek to add at the foot of her response that its standards of performance included taking 6 months to respond to correspondence ! Now, if I was appointed to that Board, I would demand that each member who had supported that standard, should resign . Professional incompetence ?

[Malc1]

3 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Now, if I was appointed to that Board,

now you, listen up .............. a couple of years ago I was asked ...  volunteered to be appointed to the local GPs Surgery Patient Board of Advisory Competence or whatever you're referring to .....  all the same thing ............ BUT  shortly thereafter, having raised some sensible issues, the GPs " closed " the Board down and all members dissipated  ................ they would only want the advisory panel / Board if it acceded to their needs and standards 

you and i wouldn't last 5 minutes .....  well i didn't whatever ............

HOWEVER  .......... I am a member of Canterbury City Council ad hoc volunteer and unexpensed Disability Advisory Panel and I'm very pleased to say that our input is usually taken seriously in addressing the Council's suggested actions and developments affecting the disabled 

it's not all bad out there BUT you've got to search hard to find a business that's wanting to take criticisms on the chin

Malc

 

[royoftherovers]

28 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

now you, listen up .............. a couple of years ago I was asked ...  volunteered to be appointed to the local GPs Surgery Patient Board of Advisory Competence or whatever you're referring to .....  all the same thing ............ BUT  shortly thereafter, having raised some sensible issues, the GPs " closed " the Board down and all members dissipated  ................ they would only want the advisory panel / Board if it acceded to their needs and standards 

you and i wouldn't last 5 minutes .....  well i didn't whatever ............

HOWEVER  .......... I am a member of Canterbury City Council ad hoc volunteer and unexpensed Disability Advisory Panel and I'm very pleased to say that our input is usually taken seriously in addressing the Council's suggested actions and developments affecting the disabled 

it's not all bad out there BUT you've got to search hard to find a business that's wanting to take criticisms on the chin

Malc

 

What better, then to go down fighting with a pal ?🤣🤣I sometimes think that you and I might have been able to save the Titanic, Amigo !

[Phil xxkr]

13 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

You are quite right Phil.

I complained recently to a Doctors` Surgery about its process for handling requests to see/speak to, a Doctor.

The Office Manger responded to me (following her return from holiday?) and had the cheek to add at the foot of her response that its standards of performance included taking 6 months to respond to correspondence ! Now, if I was appointed to that Board, I would demand that each member who had supported that standard, should resign . Professional incompetence ?

 

From the CQC 👍, fascinating how many organisations are involved in advising on complaints - why? 

How should providers respond to complaints?

The General Medical Council (GMC) ethical guidance states a ‘good’ doctor will:

make the patients your first concerntake prompt action if you think the patient is being compromisedestablish and maintain good relationships with patientsbe honest and open and act with integrity.listen to, and respond to, patients concerns and preferences.

Practices must follow:

The Local Authority Social Services and National Health Service Complaints (England) Regulations (2009). This sets out expectations for NHS providers in how to manage complaints.Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) Regulations 2014 (Regulation 16).

The British Medical Association (BMA) has produced guidance on dealing with complaints made against a GP practice. They have also produced specific guidance for GPs who manage staff. This helps managers of other healthcare professionals better manage concerns raised to them.

Patients or a person acting on their behalf can complain to NHS England. This is if they don’t want to complain to an NHS provider directly. They can complain to the provider or the commissioner of that service but not both. This is often misrepresented in local policy and practice information leaflets. The commissioner cannot investigate if provider has already responded. NHS England has published guidance on how to complain to the NHS, including where patients can access support with their complaint.

The Local Authority Social Services and National Health Service Complaints (England) Regulations (2009) state there should be two stages of dealing with complaints:

Stage one: local resolution by the provider or NHS England. Most complaints resolve quickly and efficiently this way, orStage two: Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO). If a complainant is dissatisfied after stage one, they can complain to the Ombudsman.

Doctors and other staff who are being complained about can also take the case to the Ombudsman. For example, if they are not satisfied with a response given on their behalf by a commissioning body.

Independent doctors are unable to use the PHSO. They have no legal requirement to have an appeals mechanism. It is good practice to provide independent adjudication on complaints. For example, using a service such as Independent Sector Complaints Adjudication Service (ISCAS).

Timescales and initial response to complaints

The Medical Defence Union (MDU) have produced guidance on how to respond to a complaint. It states that:

The tone of a response needs to be professional, measured and sympathetic.Patient confidentiality should be considered, and timescales agreed.Verbal complaints (not resolved in 24 hours) should be written up by the provider. They should share this with the complainant to agree content.Practices cannot insist complainants ‘put their complaints in writing’.

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

Independent doctors

what are these ?

I'd have thought all UK Doctors would be responsible to the NHS in some way ?  ,,,,,,,,,,,, even only if they sub their private practice to take on NHS Patients at some or even any stage in their " business "

Malc

[MadJam250]

(Cross over with my other thread about dealer using my car without permission)

Local Listers branch have disowned me (the feeling is mutual) as has Listers HQ. Have completed the customer satisfaction survey with Lexus HQ and gave the dealership a scathing review and followed that up with an email. The survey indicated a follow-up would occur if the feedback was not satisfactory and despite that, and my email to them, nothing back from HQ at all. So much for putting the customers first.

After over a decade of recommending and praising the brand, Lexus in my eyes are now out of favour and I'll be shopping elsewhere ASAP. It seems to me from comments made by the branch MD, older cars are not viably interesting to them (aftercare is clearly a drain on their profit margins) and if the owner is unlikely to return to purchase again anytime soon, they are a liability and likely dispensible. Money talks, as always. 

[dutchie01]

Strange all this. Dealers are earning making their profit on maintenance and repairs not on new sales. The entire toyota/lexus 10yr warranty is based on annual visits to the garage and the prescribed maintenance. The older the car, the more goes wrong so show me the money?

[Mr Vlad]

This is an unfortunate situation that occurred. The point is that not all main dealers are worth their salt. Not all independents are worth their salt. Some main dealers are outstanding. Some independents are outstanding. Some main dealers start off great but in time go worse and that happens with independents too. 

You've had a rough deal Martin. Me? My main dealers is outstanding as is my local Halfords. 

[LenT]

7 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

After over a decade of recommending and praising the brand, Lexus in my eyes are now out of favour and I'll be shopping elsewhere ASAP. It seems to me from comments made by the branch MD, older cars are not viably interesting to them (aftercare is clearly a drain on their profit margins) and if the owner is unlikely to return to purchase again anytime soon, they are a liability and likely dispensible. Money talks, as always. 

My Dealer experience is much the same as Vladimir’s.  My Lexus is much the same age as yours, Martin.  I get regular emails from my Lexus Dealer acknowledging that I’m very happy with my IS250 but wanting to keep in touch and looking forward to the next service.

I don’t really see that it’s to your advantage to dismiss the possibility of ever buying another Lexus - if that’s how you’re feeling - because of your problem with one Dealer.  After all, it’s not the car that you’re dissatisfied with.  And you may well have helped other LOC members make their own judgement about the merits of dealing with this particular company.

If there’s no convenient Dealer alternative then maybe look for a good local Indy to provide servicing.  

[ALAW]

On 10/16/2022 at 7:52 AM, Phil xxkr said:

 

From the CQC 👍, fascinating how many organisations are involved in advising on complaints - why? 

How should providers respond to complaints?

The General Medical Council (GMC) ethical guidance states a ‘good’ doctor will:

make the patients your first concerntake prompt action if you think the patient is being compromisedestablish and maintain good relationships with patientsbe honest and open and act with integrity.listen to, and respond to, patients concerns and preferences.

Practices must follow:

The Local Authority Social Services and National Health Service Complaints (England) Regulations (2009). This sets out expectations for NHS providers in how to manage complaints.Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) Regulations 2014 (Regulation 16).

The British Medical Association (BMA) has produced guidance on dealing with complaints made against a GP practice. They have also produced specific guidance for GPs who manage staff. This helps managers of other healthcare professionals better manage concerns raised to them.

Patients or a person acting on their behalf can complain to NHS England. This is if they don’t want to complain to an NHS provider directly. They can complain to the provider or the commissioner of that service but not both. This is often misrepresented in local policy and practice information leaflets. The commissioner cannot investigate if provider has already responded. NHS England has published guidance on how to complain to the NHS, including where patients can access support with their complaint.

The Local Authority Social Services and National Health Service Complaints (England) Regulations (2009) state there should be two stages of dealing with complaints:

Stage one: local resolution by the provider or NHS England. Most complaints resolve quickly and efficiently this way, orStage two: Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO). If a complainant is dissatisfied after stage one, they can complain to the Ombudsman.

Doctors and other staff who are being complained about can also take the case to the Ombudsman. For example, if they are not satisfied with a response given on their behalf by a commissioning body.

Independent doctors are unable to use the PHSO. They have no legal requirement to have an appeals mechanism. It is good practice to provide independent adjudication on complaints. For example, using a service such as Independent Sector Complaints Adjudication Service (ISCAS).

Timescales and initial response to complaints

The Medical Defence Union (MDU) have produced guidance on how to respond to a complaint. It states that:

The tone of a response needs to be professional, measured and sympathetic.Patient confidentiality should be considered, and timescales agreed.Verbal complaints (not resolved in 24 hours) should be written up by the provider. They should share this with the complainant to agree content.Practices cannot insist complainants ‘put their complaints in writing’.

That's an excellent post to the thread Phil. I always advise anyone who visits the Doctors to fill in the friends and family test its anonymous and can be done online. Enables feedback good or bad and the CQC when doing their inspections should look at it. On another note I am surprised at the number of people who work in public office do not know what the Nolan principles are.

[royoftherovers]

8 hours ago, ALAW said:

That's an excellent post to the thread Phil. I always advise anyone who visits the Doctors to fill in the friends and family test its anonymous and can be done online. Enables feedback good or bad and the CQC when doing their inspections should look at it. On another note I am surprised at the number of people who work in public office do not know what the Nolan principles are.

Brent, 

 

8 hours ago, ALAW said:

That's an excellent post to the thread Phil. I always advise anyone who visits the Doctors to fill in the friends and family test its anonymous and can be done online. Enables feedback good or bad and the CQC when doing their inspections should look at it. On another note I am surprised at the number of people who work in public office do not know what the Nolan principles are.

Brent, is adherence to the Principles a Condition of Employment ?

[Malc1]

Care and Quality  .  I every year get a message from two different tyre places knowing my MOT is due and asking if they can help  .  they both do MOTs ....  Protyres in Canterbury and A2 Tyres on Sheppey ..  never had servicing done by them, nor MOTs .  just tyre supplies 

NOW  that's service eh !  and jolly good Marketing too

Malc

[ALAW]

15 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Brent, 

 

Brent, is adherence to the Principles a Condition of Employment ?

No John not that I'm aware they are more a guide/code of conduct that should be adhered to for those working in public office. 

[royoftherovers]

On 12/4/2022 at 7:58 AM, royoftherovers said:

Brent, 

 

Brent, is adherence to the Principles a Condition of Employment ?

I came across this Brent. It is a wonderful Maiden Speech that I have not heard previously.

 

[ALAW]

10 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

I came across this Brent. It is a wonderful Maiden Speech that I have not heard previously.

 

Brilliant John me too id never seen it before. I spent a lot of time in Edinburgh over my working life a great city i could write all night things I've done there etc.