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In the Blue corner with his plastic bonnet, we have @tomRCFcarbon in the red corner we have smokey diesel @Linas.P with his ubiquitous IS220d DING DING round ONE @NemesisUK get your popcorn🍿 ready!!!

Created. Careful what you wish for.

I reckon it's either someone who believes that it is a future classic or someone who places great importance in 0-60 times. Or both 😉

Crikey imagine if you had a car that couldn’t do 0-60 in 7.3 secs‽ you would be stuck in that petrol station forever...presumably there were thousands of motorists stuck there, surviving on ginsters pasties, overly bitter Costa machine coffee and Frijj milkshakes - poor buggers. Still I guess it will teach them not to buy a ‘lesser car’ in future...

Funny that, the first time I recall seeing a Lexus it was also a CG LS400... however it was on the bonus stage in Street Fighter 2, on the Super Nintendo 😁 Future classic or not, the ISF appealed to me mostly because it was different and probably because it was blue! The fact it was comparitively cheaper than the M3 and AMG just clinched it. I know everyone else will buy the other two 9 times out of 10 because Clarkson told them, but that makes me even more satisfied with my choice. Ps I still remember how expensive my M cars were to run and maintain. With my ISF I sleep soundly every night.

And make it a sticky

The electric debate is very interesting. Any chance one of you could create a dedicated thread to discuss?

I think the early ISF's have the potential to be classics but only based on Lexus' first attempt at an M3 beater and their rarity. None of this influenced me buying one though, flying under the radar vs. the competition was the appeal alongside Lexus ownership experience. In general big output N/A engines days are numbered, I'll enjoy them whilst I can!

I picked it up this morning, had to head pretty much straight home due to meetings but I am absolutely loving it! Can't wait to get out in it later. I never normally buy the first example I see but the low owners, good history, condition etc. all checked out so hopefully its a goodun 😎 Wonder how long my first tank of V Power will last 😁

Long time since an update but rest assured the car is still alive and Well!! Not a great deal has happened over the past few months, however I have ordered some parts which arrived and some are still on the way. I gained some led rear lights from Japan and a fellow LS400 owner sold me his old wheels. The spacers that came with it were too big originally however I have now got better sized spacers and got the ride height to just about where I'd like it, enjoy the pics :) Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

So you are looking at C180 AMG Sports instead of a C63s 😉

@doog442 No below is the Highway code in Linas books.. Highway code of Linas Before overtaking you should make sure there is a powerful engine under the hood of your car of the road user you plan to overtake. 😆

linas i sincerely hope you are trolling the forum here as otherwise i do fear for your wellbeing

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not arguing for this. Just kind of joining up the dots I can see forming. I’ll keep my V8 as long as I possibly can!

Actual real life example of this happened to me last year. We were leaving Germany and had a text from EuroTunnel saying that a blockade of the terminal was due later on that day. About 6 cars were in our group (2 x ISF's, 1 x Fiesta ST, 1 x Audi A3 and a BMW 320d). Myself and other ISF owner thought.... Screw the convoy & hit the autobahn and were "cruising" at about 150mph. We were somewhat pushing on through Netherlands and most of Belgium as well (apart from Brussels with the usual traffic fest) Stopped to fill up in Belgium as we were soon nearing empty. The slower cars went past us while we were stationary. They made it into the terminal with about 30 seconds to spare. We were 5 mins behind and our crossing was delayed by 4 hours. If ever there was a case of the Hare and the Tortoise 😉

Sorry Linas but that is just ridiculous. 7.3 isn't 'very very slow'. I was taught to drive and do overtakes at ludicrous speeds on slow and fast country roads / motorways / Cities in a 2 litre Sierra saloon with a 0-60 time of 9 seconds and trust me we did it without any difficulty. We then advanced to a 3 litre Vauxhall Carlton with a 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds which by your reckoning must be slow if 7.3 is very, very slow. Its how you drive and it wasn't much more than dropping down a gear prior to moving into the offside lane to get a proper view ahead before making a safe overtake.

I don't see Lexus trying to raise their profile at all, at least not in UK. Sorry to repeat myself, but there is too wide gap in their line-up to properly promote proper F car. They need to make F as a pinnacle of the brand progression, now the disconnect between IS300h and GS-F and RC300h and RC-F is so huge, that RC-F acts more like separate independent brand (F-Marque) then extension of Lexus. The brand progression starts from small car, say CT200h... but CT200h is boring as hell, great reliable car, but has no values except of being metal box taking you from a to b. It is great if somebody is lucky enough to get IS200 or maybe IS250 as as first car... they might hang onto the brand if they value reliability, however from there they have nowhere to go, no logical "upgrade". In US obviously that is IS/RC350.. in UK that mid-tier model does not exist and going all the way to RC-F or GS-F is not natural progression at all. As such, by the time people in UK would get to the point where they would consider RC-F as natural next step, they usually would have left Lexus brand for something else... In the end people buying F cars are seasoned petrolhead who have tried everything and just decided to "give it a try".. which means it will never sell in high number and there is lack of exposure and appreciation for the cars. To summarise, F would be much more recognised if Lexus would provide interesting entry-level cars (CT200t anyone?), and reasonable progression via mid-tier (IS/RC350) to attract and keep clients who cares about driving dynamics.

Having sufficient power creates a more relaxed drive as you just know the possibillity is there to quickly escape a potentially dangerous situation. If you dont have any reserve the only options left are to brake, turn left or right and thats it. So, in that aspect powerful cars are safer which leads to the next question how much power is needed for that and where does it become unsafe to handle. One does not need a lot of power to belong to the 10% fastest motors out there but responsibly handling a 500hp car is something else. Which brings me to overtaking on B roads, trucks caravans etc. This is the fastest way of getting into trouble quickly just ask any ambulance or police officer that has been cleaning up the mess even only once. Having a powerful car does make it easier to go for that hole and swiftly make progress but patience is gold sometimes. power reserve in 30 - 70 is what you need here.

I agree with @FTBBCVoodoo the sad fact is they will probably never be considered classics (in the proper sense of the word - everyone would love to have one or have had one). Lexus are certainly trying quite hard to raise their global profile with their various art sponsorships and the success of the LC500 in GT and the potential success of the RCF GT could do good things, but I fear our beloveds will be consigned as a quirk of motoring history - a bit like a Renault V6 turbo / A610 or Fiat Coupe...good cars at the time but didn’t do much to propel the brands into sportier territory and looking back they were just a bit of a quirk. Not saying that both cars aren’t considered classics now, but that’s due to age and rarity not reputation and demand... I also agree with the petrol point. We are driving dinosaurs. My car has managed about 23mpg and that just isn’t sustainable. Not for the planet. Not for global politics. And with the direction petrol prices are going - not for my pocket in about 3 years time. You only have to look look at the cars the big manufacturing groups have planned to see that we will all be driving electric cars in 10 years, not out of choice, but you won’t find a petrol car in a showroom. Which leaves us hanging to our v8s. People will be interested in them. People will want to hear them. But in 20-30 years they will be a quirk of history. Something people remark about like they do now about driving without seatbelts or being able to smoke on planes - kind of inconceivably redundant and out of date.

In about 50yrs of motoring 0 - 60 times have never been a consideration for me. I drive within my, and my cars limitations.

I had the message "System fault" with flashing tyre, and red exclamation mark appear today. Checking with Techstream produced D3 tyre sensor faulty with it's code number. The other three tyre pressures, and temperatures were shown, but this does not tell you which wheel the problem is on. With Techstream still connected I lowered the tyre pressures in each tyre noting which pressure altered (D1, D2, --, D4) marking the wheels accordingly. The tyre with the suspect transmitter was the rear NS. I had the transmitter removed by my local friendly tyre dealer, and a rubber valve put in it's place. I then went home with the offending item. Picture (1) I gently prised off the cover of the unit. This took about 30 seconds. Picture (2) Gently scraping off the soft sealant over the battery. This took about 2 minutes. Picture (3) I peeled off the tag connector. About 1 minute. Picture (4) Gently prised out the battery removing the underside tag. Again about 1 minute. Picture (5) The battery was a Panasonic BR2450 "Same as CR2450" reading 2.8 volts. Not having one of these to hand I replaced it temporarily with a CR2032 held in place with my fingers. I took it out to the car, and turned the car on. The system fault had disappeared, and was now showing a flat tyre obviously because I was holding the sensor without any air pressure. I have ordered 5 tagged BR2450 batteries at a cost of £3-22 pence. As soon as they arrive one will be soldered back to the OEM tags, and the valve refitted. The other batteries will be kept ready for failures of the other valves. The total cost per wheel with the charges from my tyre dealer for refitting, and balancing (£10) will be £10-65 pence. Plus 5 minutes work at my desk. These pressure units could easily be made with a compartment so that the batteries could be change readily, but I suppose the manufacturers are making to much profit for this to happen. John.

Hello all, I have recently purchased a 2001 GS300. This car is very much a project for me - and a venture in to Japanese cars from my principal hobby car brand of choice - BMW. I own a '98 BMW 740i which has been my main hobby to date, but have always hankered after a Lexus, from teenage years and onward. It was purchased using my usual rule of trying to find something interesting for under a grand... enter the car in question: It has pretty high miles - 184k and a complete lack of stamped service history, with the notable exception of a cambelt change at a Lexus main dealer at 160k miles. Engine oil is reasonably clean, transmission functions as intended - but I bought with my eyes well and truly open, which leads me to the discoveries... I have a pathological fear of rust, so first thing was to strip of all the sill covers and asses things down below. Here's a couple of shots of the rear jacking points as I found them: NSR: OSR: Given 17 years on the road and some likely abuse through being jacked improperly, I was happy to find that the corrosion is just surface stuff. I've hammered the pinch welds straight again, scrubbed everything down, and given the length of the affected areas a coating with POR-15 (https://www.por15.com/) and stonechip primer: I don't have pictures of the final product, but basically any grey area was covered with black stonechip - and with the colour coded sill covers on, this area isn't visible - so I'm not fussed about the difference in colour. I've scrubbed and treated all 4 jacking points onthe car, and any area on the length of the sill that looked like it was rusting. Unfortunately, the same couldn’t be said of the inner wheel wells, and I was able to push holes in them in the area where they meet the sill section – thankfully the rot doesn’t affect the sills– so I got the wheel wells inspected by a local underbody welder whom I trust – and repaired wherever rust was found: Looking from the hole down the sill (!): As before, the sill looks good, just the wheel wells not so much! I plan to get some waxoyl and a flexible applicator and thoroughly treat the inside of the sills once I have the car back from the body shop. I’ve also found some curious examples of previous owners/those in their employ attempting to hide faults – rather than fix them. Can you see what’s missing in this shot of the rear of the instrument cluster? Yes – the telltale bulbs for the VSC system have been removed. Putting replacement bulbs in immediately showed up that the system was deactivated and faulty, as was the ABS; I can only assume a PO did this to hide the faults and pass an MOT test. The other frustration was that the MIL light had been painted over with black nail varnish (!) – lightly removing this from the outside of the cluster (no I didn’t spot it on the test drive) of course revealed the MIL was illuminated. I’m thankful I was able to get codes using my OBDII reader – and the damage could have been worse – 2x separate lambda sensor faults. One traced to *really* poor workmanship on a presumed universal sensor installation: Fixed as (self amalgating tape added to the length of the repair afterward): That was fixed by remaking the wire joints with solder/heat shrink insulation. The other sensor needed to be replaced entirely and then the MIL light could be extinguished; an easy fix for the sake of some time with a soldering iron, and £50 for a new DENSO universal sensor. The VSC/ABS system was easily brought back to life with a trick for resetting zero point calibration using a paper clip that I found somewhere on a USA Lexus forum post – bingo, no more warnings on the dash. The plan for this car will be to give it a complete brakes and suspension renewal, and service everything I can, before making some subtle modifications. Broadly, I want to lower it, give it a slightly louder exhaust note (actually there has already been some work done as the silencer tips are not original to the car), and some nice deep dish wheels. I’ll post up my progress on here, mention any useful part numbers; if anything for my own records. I’m a keen DIY’er so largely I’ll be doing this in the garage/ driveway. First service item was to a drain/refill the ATF. I use a suction/syphon drain and got some Type 4 ATF from Toyota: Coming from BMWs it was great to have a dipstick to work with. Fluid removed was dark, but didn’t smell burned; I think I managed to put about 4 litres of fluid in to the box – definitely I put in more than I removed so I think the box was lower on fluid level than it should have been. I’ve also put a new radiator on the car, as the plastic cores on the old part appeared very brown and mottled – like you could touch them and they’d spring a leak. New part from Ad-Rad.co.uk, delivered next day – made by Koyorad; fitted in under an hour: Next up will be to replace the rocker cover gaskets, as there’s a fair old oil leak from the top of the engine. I’ll post on that when I have the car back from the body shop. I'm hoping this car will be some fun to work on - and broadly speaking a valuable learning experience on a vehicle that isn't German/ a Land Rover! Thanks, John

I still don't understand ... specifically from global warming perspective... What is the difference where pollution is generated? I understand that is more important in the city, but equally city is not protected from global environment changes. For me it is sort of attitude - "if I don't see it it doesn't hurt".

Yes there should be a removable panel at the rear to access the filter, be careful if it doesn’t pull straight out I know some models require the AC to be set in a particular mode to avoid damage to the control flaps....seem to remember it needs to be in recirculating mode.

We’re all doomed laddy 🤪

open the bonnet and look in the area where the headlight and the wing meet on the plastic panel you will see 2 arrows that have a + and - these are the adjusters for the horizontal and vertical settings of the headlights.

My two pence. The biggest crooks out there don't even wear masks anymore. Whatever happens the government will extract every penny out of it, all in the name of saving our planet etc..... These smart motorways that government are saying is all about safety? Pull the other one, they wouldn't be spending all that money upgrading to smart motorways in the interest of our safety. Pay per mile will soon be here, and a very nice sideline with a great income will be zero tolerance speeding detection. If they phase out petrol they lose a massive income from fuel duty, so it'll have to go back on, and it will. Electric cars won't be the cheap option everyone thinks it will be. So back on topic, sorry for the rant. I don't think they'll phase out petrol, not while they are making 80% in fuel duty. So I say more than 20 years. And I'll be happy if I'm still around to be proved wrong.

My 2p worth. There are many more dull fwd cars than dull RWD. Sure a fwd chassis can be epic and a rwd one can be a pig. Usually a north south mounted engine, back wheel drive usually produces a nice car to drive and that cannot be be said for a transverse mount front drive. You don’t have to drive like a tool to feel the difference-to appreciate the steering, the balanced feel etc etc. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not gonna lie. I had to Google what ULEV stood for. Petrolhead me 🙂 without googling I don't know what PHEV stands for either on the side of those Mitsubishi's but going to guess at Petrol Hybrid Electric Vehicle.

I’d like to pretend that’s not funny 😜

And what did you except? This was controversial question and it was clear it would explode at some point - "0-60 never bothered me in my life, but I drive IS-F.... cause I liked the looks".. and the all "safe snailing warriors" .

Ive given up on this thread it’s another one of those........🐀

I do not mean to be rude (always a bad introduction!) but I think most of you are missing the point. The Question posed was: Which F (if any?) will become a classic? The answer is simple in my mind - they ALL have the potential to be classics. It just depends on how you define a classic? Many of you seem to be concentrating on monetary value as a guide to being a classic. I would disagree, as many classics are no where near the price of a new Dacia Sandero! Rarity and nostalgia are far more important. Another consideration might be "historical" e.g. cutting edge in design or engineering (Citroen DS) - or being the FIRST! (LS 400) On that basis the LS 400 will outscore all other Lexus models .I think any car can become a classic but would I keep a car for many years, in pristine condition, to try and make it a classic? No I think not. If a car is old enough or rare enough (IS-F) then it will be a classic at some point. Just my humble opinion! And NO my LS 400 "classic" is not for sale!

SEVEN ? 😂 Who the hell in their right mind would even think about overtaking seven cars on a single carriageway road ? I presume you mean seven cars in a line and at one go..You really are the next statistic if you go out on a road with that mindset. even if you accept that your car won't do it. Would you do it in an RCF ?

I’ve always questioned the argument for power getting you out of trouble. I suppose that when pulling out of junctions, power can help, but personally I think power is more likely to get you in to trouble. Lets take overtaking as an example. When using your POWER to overtake a string of vehicles, you’ve got to be damn sure that all of the vehicles know that you are coming. You can’t guarantee this - so power could get you into a bag of trouble. One last point. Tricky situations often occur very rapidly. It’s very unlikely that you will react quickly enough to use said POWER. In any case, if your gearbox is in Auto mode, then you’ll be relying on k I C k d o w n. ZzzZZZZZZ. Ill take great brakes and tyres over POWER any day!!!

Fact is we will have a legacy of petrol cars on the road for the next 20 years or so. It’s rare to see cars much older than that on the road already...and that will speed up as new testing reg’s are brought in...testing reg’s will get tighter as government is put under pressure by the car lobby to move away from petrol cars (as they won’t want to support them with expensive workshops and parts departments). Geo-politically we could do without buying all that petrol from abroad and being held to ransom by OPEC all the time. Also Saudi are investing in electric infrastructure and electric vehicle tech so they won’t be too bothered as they have hedged against the shift away from oil. Electric vehicle infrastructure isn’t hard to install and won’t take much to make happen, after all we have a strong and adaptable grid in the UK and across Europe with tons of capacity so creating charging points is just a job of selecting sites and building them. Regarding charging times, that will be helped by wireless charging integrated into places where vehicles commonly pause (traffic lights, etc) and new tech such as super capacitors and 800v charging packs are bringing charging times down. Hot swappable battery packs are another way of enabling super quick fill ups and initially are the likely way that HGVs will fill up - but with TACHO stops required by law they often dwell for long periods anyway. The business model is also going to change which will be another forcing factor, with a move to a ‘Car As A Service’ (CaaS). Which will basically operate as an all inclusive monthly rental...operated by the manufacturers themselves. Moving away from ownership (Volvo doing this already in US) so in the age of autonomous cars, you hail a car and your trip is covered by a car that delivers itself to you at the point of need (rather than waiting indefinitely on the drive) which further helps with the charging issue as the system will manage itself. But all this is moot. History tells us we’re quite good at anticipating something that is 6-12 months away but disastrous at thinking about a decade away.

Leigh. Try Ebay item number 332285774538 this is a pack of 4 for £8. There will be parts you do not need, and they are labeled for BMW, but this makes no difference. Alternatively you can use item number. 252719828473 at £5 for one, and these are listed as Mazda. John.

@doog442 Absolutely right sir. 🐀

what a beauty

Ditto. And contrary to what some may think, that doesn't mean I'm adverse to a spirited drive. Neither am I happy to sit behind traffic when there's no need. I take Linus' point that 0-60 is just a yardstick but it's a yardstick I pay little notice to.

Think the only bones I didn’t break was my back n neck. Lol.......definitely put an end to playing football, although I did try the vets and lasted about half a season a few years ago 😂......but like they say there’s always someone worse off 😉

I don't see any of them becoming classics. Depending on your generation, I grew up watching Audi Quattros rallying, BMW's in BTCC and Mercedes in Lemans so when the time came for me to get a V8 I was steered towards those marques based on nostalgia. My 1st experience of Lexus was my grandad bringing home an LS400 on a 24 hour test drive back in about 1990 which was in Champagne Gold metallic. I hated it. He bought an E34 535i instead which was ace in white and looked like a Police car so people used to get out the way on our way down to Portsmouth to watch football every Saturday. I tested a B7 RS4 and it was as dull as dishwater. E90 M3 saloons were a bit of a stretch & the C63 AMG was too much. It was a friend of mine who had an IS220d at work who mentioned the ISF to me. I had only even seen them on the Top Gear review which they didn't fair well on against the competition. Ironically the same friend has bought an ISF as well 🙂 Mine turned up in my price bracket down the road. I had to get rid of my awful 335i as it was put together with Lego and almost killed me and the family when it's fuel pump failed in the fast lane of the M1. I watched this YouTube review and it convinced me to take the ISF for a test drive I tested the ISF, liked it, bought it. Since grown to love it and will wax lyrical about it to whoever is interested. By the time they are rare enough to be classed as classics then fuel will probably be at £4 a litre and it will have to resort to Mad Max tactics to get a litre of V Power 😉

Lexus are continuing to establish the f over here. In the states it has a great following. It will take time for people to realise it is a better car to own in many ways as it has been drilled in to us all that the m3 and c63 the best on offer.

@ISF V8 JAY Grey is right up there IMO for an IsF........ I was never really happy with my Silver....... cough....... cough.......🤥 🐀

Mine with a full custom valvetronic system and carbon functional tips

Except my defender, all of the cars we have at the minute are rwd. I enjoy driving, as we probably all do, but my talents are limited. I don’t slither around roundabouts or adjust the tail on the throttle in corners anymore, but appreciate how well the car drives and most importantly feels through the steering. ive had some great fwd cars, 205 gti, integra, accord r which have been lauded by the press as best examples of their type. But none steer as well or as precisely as the cars we have today. Even though s2000 which we have has an early electric power steering system it is way better than any of these. My sons gt86, is leagues ahead of them in how precise the steering feels, and is a cracking drive, yes it has shortcomings but is a brilliant little car. So pleased his mum made me buy it for him..... you don’t have to be going a million miles an hour or driving like you pants are on fire to appreciate great well balanced precise car. And for me, certainly from my experience rwd allows that. I’ve been lucky enough to have had a few 911’s over the last 20 or so years, all except the turbo I had have been 2wd. The turbo was a remarkable car, spectacularly fast in any weather, but a blunt instrument. Steering was dull and feedback lacking compared to its contemporaries , I assume down to the drive through the front wheels. I’ve currently got a 993 which is 20+ years old, 2wd, and has a few choice mods (including a 3.8 rs spec motor......). It demands respect, is a proper handfull, a pig to get my fat arse into the recaro hard back seats, but every drive is special, even just nipping to the shops, as the steering is scalpel sharp uncorrupted by not having to deal with delivering power to the road. a colleague drove it recently, who has had a string of Audi s and rs cars and commented on what he’d been missing and how well and how much feel came through the steering compared to the cars he’s got and had. His comments on driving the isf are similar, it’s easier to place the isf than his Audi due to the steering being more precise because that’s all it does when pressing on, that his rs. anyway enough of me blabbing on, just my thoughts. So yes rwd is important to me, and I very much doubt the replacement when I can decide what to do with the isf will be anything else but a front engined rear drive car.

Lotus Elise? Thought - we need to define country side roads. British narrow, broken, bumpy roads with blind corners - yeah probably. Wide, sweeping, smooth roads with clear corners, loads of space to correct - not so sure, you can have a lot of fun in rather heavy and powerful GT car.

Is this not consistent with what I was saying about RWD balance? equally, Cio Cup - doesn't it represent "ultralight track car with sticky tyres" as I mentioned? As for 400hp+ it is more like badge of honour rather then necessity on public road, you can put it down from time to time and for fraction of a second perhaps without loosing your licence... but here is the other side - what is wrong with 100MPH, it is just in outdated and arbitrary British rules it is offence, otherwise it is not high speed at all. We need laws changed, better lane discipline, better driver training and we can certainly drive faster. It is almost like caring the gun - the best defence is not in shooting it, but by simply letting everyone know you are armed. In car terms that is letting all s***** with their riced fiestas and civics to know they need to back-off. For me driving in UK is far too inclusive, so many people who should not be allowed anywhere near the roads, never mind cars... are allowed to fool around. For me it seems it should be more exclusive and only the ones who likes driving and cares about how they drive, about the rules, should be allowed to do it. It is not the game - lives can be lost. Yet is not the speed what kills, it is idiots behind the wheel going at speed who kills.

Not sure if 320d drivers needs permission to speak here.... RWD is massively important for me, even without driving cars to the limit the balance is completely different, just say for little spirited driving, even within speed limits RWD feels so much better into the corners and out the corner. I once made mistake and got myself Passat CC, they tied to mimic RWD balance there by having wider tyres in the front (I believe it was 235 fronts, 225/215 rear) - in result what you get, car still understeers on throttle and snap-oversteers off throttle... in short balance was all over the place. On other FWD cars you get torque steer (especially in 200hp+), they always understeer and balance is mess.. completely not enjoyable to drive So even without power (more so with the power) RWD is just about balance, joy, feel in the corners and control... well obviously unless you have FWD "which pushes from the back"! I will make bold statement here and I am sure that is going to be massive explosion of insulted "snowflakes" - if driver doesn't feel the need for RWD, they they do not enjoy driving and they cannot qualify to call themselves petrolheads..

No. If you buy one of these cars thinking it's been driven to the local co-op and back for the past 100,000 miles, you're dreaming. They've all been driven hard for periods of their lives.