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Is it just me that’s pleased about a standard fit sunroof.


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Maybe the new ES should not be compared to the old GS but judged as a new proposition from Lexus.

It is a new car that will be part of the new Lexus line up that will mainly be crossovers/suvs like it or not. ES - LS - LC - UX - NX -  RX.

I have not seen the ES in the flesh, have not been inside nor driven it. I will therefore postpone my judgment until i have.    

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3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Does the NX have RCTA and BSM at the base grade - NO

Does to RC have RCTA and BSM at the base grade - NO

That is irrelevant, especially NX... SUVs are "non-driver" cars.... my whole argument was around ex-GS being capable drivers car which could be enjoyed on the road - unlike ES. As for specifics I must admit it is my ignorance (and not lies) - I do not consider entry trims as worthy a consideration, I simply filter them out or skip - they do not exist for me... hence I have this illusion that Lexus comes well equipped standard - that certainly stands true when looking to used F-Sports and Premiers (I do not even acknowledged lesser grades exists). e.g. like GS300h Exec... I would have just turn blind eye on it's existence.  @spacenase - you are right - I remember mk3 IS coming out and it had much poorer equipment then late mk2 it replaced.

In short - I had this wrong perception because I was comparing outgoing GS450h F-sport/Premier to upcoming ESxxx as like for like and obviously I was wrong here, because base ES300h is really just replacement for GS300h Exec which starts at £36,125.

So comparison would be more like:

ES300h (~base) vs. GS300h Exec vs. IS300h Advance

Price £35,150 vs. £36,125 vs. £34,900

Interior Tahara vs. Premium Leather vs. Premium Leather

Infotainment 8" vs. 12.3" vs. 7"

There are some other small differences, but in general vs. GS Leather (~£900) + what was "Premium Nav" (~£1900) is worth much more then £1025 price difference, or in case of IS it is even cheaper with ~same spec + leather. On flip side you get Sunroof in ES (£1000) whenever you like it or not (find it quite strange they equip effectively all cars with sunroofs). 

In summary, I might wrong about many thing, but it still seems ES not only costs slightly more than as GS/IS "like-for-like", but as well it is based on inferiour drivetrain.

I tried to do further comparison on US pricing, but upon learning ES350 costs $39500, whereas ES300h will be $41310 I got madly angry and stopped there (a proper car cheaper then ****** hybrid).... In fact that is what I was saying all along 350 is tried and tested cheap technology - if we would have 350 here in UK it should be cheaper then 300h and that is literally nobrainer. 

@Jamesf1 - it was discussed many times - considering brand recognition in market Lexus should sell their cars cheaper in UK to attract customers... They got it completely wrong with GS450h which from introduction was priced between BMW540i and M5, instead of ~530D and 540i... it should have always been cheaper and not more expensive than 540i to sell.

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1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

but it still seems ES not only costs slightly more than as GS/IS "like-for-like", but as well it is based on inferiour drivetrain.

The ES was always going to cost more than the IS, it is a larger vehicle. At a base level it is £1k cheaper than the outgoing GS and had there been a next generation GS, its price would have almost certainly gone up so the gap would have been greater.

Inferior drivetrain is obviously your opinion. The new engine and hybrid system is greatly improved, it is just the FWD layout that could be considered inferior, which to the majority of owners won't care about that, especially with a hybrid drivetrain.

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It is £1025 cheaper, but not "like for like" (as per above post), had Lexus not discontinued GS we would not have this discussion either + I consider that newer car must have more standard equipment (even thought I agree that is practically not always the case) e.g. if in 2012 8" screen was standard and 12.3" was premium, then model in 2018 must have 12.3" standard and 14" premium.

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

it is just the FWD layout that could be considered inferior

Well except of the fact that 450h is no-more, that is what I meant RWD300h>FWD300h...... 300h is sluggish anyway, I don't think I need to remind it.

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I bought a GS450h premier new in 2013 and think it is a great car, so I was distraught to find out the Lexus have stopped selling this model in the UK.

I am likely to keep the current GS450h for another couple of years but am looking for recommendations for a replacement in due course. I would prefer a Lexus rather than another make. I like the comfort of the GS450h (not cramped inside) together with the fact it has great acceleration, when needed, as well as the high spec.

I am not an car expert but have not had any problems or extra costs with this model.

The ES looks smaller inside and with a sloping roof makes the back seats tight – as well as not being as well specked as the GS450h. I guess the nearest comparable is the GS F model but it costs a lot more – which I would find hard to justify to myself.

Any thoughts or suggestions for a nice replacement roomy and well specked car would be appreciated. If all else fails, I guess that in 2020 I could look at a 2018 2-year-old GS450h.

The alternative is that I hang on to my current GS450h for, say, another 5 years - which I like a lot and also nothing has gone wrong with it and the paintwork is perfect apart from some small stone chips. It is not a high mileage car, about 8k miles per annum, and I have this year replaced all four tyres after 35k for ££520 and updated the satnav for £180.

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2 hours ago, KEG said:

I bought a GS450h premier new in 2013 and think it is a great car, so I was distraught to find out the Lexus have stopped selling this model in the UK.

I am likely to keep the current GS450h for another couple of years but am looking for recommendations for a replacement in due course. I would prefer a Lexus rather than another make. I like the comfort of the GS450h (not cramped inside) together with the fact it has great acceleration, when needed, as well as the high spec.

I am not an car expert but have not had any problems or extra costs with this model.

The ES looks smaller inside and with a sloping roof makes the back seats tight – as well as not being as well specked as the GS450h. I guess the nearest comparable is the GS F model but it costs a lot more – which I would find hard to justify to myself.

Any thoughts or suggestions for a nice replacement roomy and well specked car would be appreciated. If all else fails, I guess that in 2020 I could look at a 2018 2-year-old GS450h.

The alternative is that I hang on to my current GS450h for, say, another 5 years - which I like a lot and also nothing has gone wrong with it and the paintwork is perfect apart from some small stone chips. It is not a high mileage car, about 8k miles per annum, and I have this year replaced all four tyres after 35k for ££520 and updated the satnav for £180.

"Another couple of years" takes you to 2021.  You are looking too soon.

Continue to enjoy the best performance saloon in the marketplace and in mid 2020 ask us all again.

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I will be looking to replace my GS450 for LS500h in 2020/2021 area. Hopefully early models will drop to 40k area. Luxury trim on LS will be something like premier on GS.

Both cars got almost the same engine and LS and got similar feel on the road. Where LS is a bit more on comfort side rather than GS trying to be more sporty.

 

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I've seen some review videos of 2019 ES and I have mixed feelings of what I've saw. The car doesn't look bad from outside. Unfortunately it is the only positive I can see as a GS300h owner. 
There are some improvements in size of boot and rear leg room. For me this is not important, because 99% these parts of my car are empty. Taking look at instrument cluster, F-Sport  looks almost the same like IS F-Sport or RC F-Sport - nice. Basic cluster partially LCD screen and partially analog is something that belongs into non premium class. I prefer nice analog cluster, but this one looks very cheap and inappropriate. Moving sight right I see big screen, glossy not shaded. Part below this looks like old RX - not very nice. Further below begins problematic part of interior. If You want to connect Smartphone to USB, You have to keep "ashtray" open. Next problem is where to put Smartphone. You will have to lead cable around gear lever to the box in middle console. It is only aesthetic problem, but one cup holder is behind the same tray and another one is open. Look at 5:39


I like in GS big box under armrest with USB ports and enough place to keep phone arranged on its place. Nice is there is wireless charger. but apparently smaller box.
Under the bonnet is new but for me as user almost the same non powerful rattling 4 cylinder engine in the same layout like ordinary cars like Skoda, VW, Mondeo etc... In my car this engine is sometimes smooth, but sometimes unacceptably loud and shaky, like it is going apart it is about 50:50. I wouldn't purchase it once again. I  swithed from BMW 528i 4pot because it was too shaky, but after years this engine is even worst. Anytime i hit gas pedal i hear and feel rattling from center console, from dashboard, from passenger front seat, from left front door window molding... I will record it.
FWD vs RWD... My first snow experience with GS300h was great. FWD cars were stuck under the hill, but I was plowing snow uphills. I am unsure If this layout with heavy Battery pack in rear will be at least the same good on snow.
I can also compare costs almost equally equipped  GS300h and new ES300h:
My 2016 specs for 51800€ is almost identical to 2019 ES300h Prestige 55900€+ Metallic paint 1200€+ Premium Navigation 1500€ together for 58600€. I miss 18" wheels and wireless charger but I have power trunk lid.

This could NOT be an upgrade for me in future. I have my GS now for only 2,5 years.  

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8 hours ago, KEG said:

I bought a GS450h premier new in 2013 and think it is a great car, so I was distraught to find out the Lexus have stopped selling this model in the UK.

I am likely to keep the current GS450h for another couple of years but am looking for recommendations for a replacement in due course. I would prefer a Lexus rather than another make. I like the comfort of the GS450h (not cramped inside) together with the fact it has great acceleration, when needed, as well as the high spec.

I am not an car expert but have not had any problems or extra costs with this model.

The ES looks smaller inside and with a sloping roof makes the back seats tight – as well as not being as well specked as the GS450h. I guess the nearest comparable is the GS F model but it costs a lot more – which I would find hard to justify to myself.

Any thoughts or suggestions for a nice replacement roomy and well specked car would be appreciated. If all else fails, I guess that in 2020 I could look at a 2018 2-year-old GS450h.

The alternative is that I hang on to my current GS450h for, say, another 5 years - which I like a lot and also nothing has gone wrong with it and the paintwork is perfect apart from some small stone chips. It is not a high mileage car, about 8k miles per annum, and I have this year replaced all four tyres after 35k for ££520 and updated the satnav for £180.

Welcome Ken.

First off, let me say thank you for buying a new GS450h in 2013, because without people like you I wouldn't have been able to have the car I have today :smile:

I am in a very similar position to you.  I was actually thinking of this today - What I would do in a few years if I decided to replace my GS?

My biggest issue with the ES is the lack of 450h option.  I am thoroughly enjoying the performance my GS450h is affording me at the moment, so it would be hard to give up.

Also, like you, an F model would be ideal (GS-F preferably), but I suspect it would be out of my price range.  Unfortunately, an LS would be the same, especially when you consider extended warranty costs and fuel consumption.

So, if I want similar performance and spec to what I currently have in a few years, the only option I can see at the moment is a newer GS450h, if you could find one.

Sad times :sad:

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Thanks to everyone for their input and advice. As suggested, I think I need to review this nearer to the time I intend to change the GS450h - in a couple of years time. Who knows, Lexus may have released a new model by then which is closer to the benefits of the GS450h that we owners currently enjoy albeit, commentary about the reason they are getting rid of this line suggests they are moving in a different direction.

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Actually, the different direction is toward crossovers, like this :

 

lf-1.png

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13 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Unfortunately, an LS would be the same, especially when you consider extended warranty costs and fuel consumption.

 

Higher price - yes

More expensive warranty - yes

Fuel consumption - nope. GS450h and LS500h got similar engines right now with almost exactly same power output.. LS is heavier but newer gearbox and engine should compensate it a bit. Officially combined for GS is 45.6 and LS got 43.5. Old 600h was 30.4 🙂

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I might be wrong, but do Lexus do an Extended Warranty on the LS?

The last time I looked at the prices they were not quoting a price for the LS. I assumed that if you can afford to run an LS you can afford whatever costs it throws at you.

Returning back to topic, I will be looking to change my GS450 in 2-3 years and am resigned to getting a late 450 or maybe even a GS300 as the 450's are mighty rare.

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I was looking at LS460s today. In three years a late 2016 will still be quite new but depreciated some. I’m interested.


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4 hours ago, Hangie said:

Higher price - yes

More expensive warranty - yes

Fuel consumption - nope. GS450h and LS500h got similar engines right now with almost exactly same power output.. LS is heavier but newer gearbox and engine should compensate it a bit. Officially combined for GS is 45.6 and LS got 43.5. Old 600h was 30.4 🙂

You are quite right, but I was referring to the 600h.  I know depreciation is bad, but I doubt I will be able to afford an LS500h in a couple of years time! :smile:

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There is ES review now, it was tested in Portugal, I think, but what I want to say is that it has very good reviews, quite, economical, very well built and better to drive than the Volvo V90!

If not for CVT it would defo get more than 3.5 stars!

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