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I had to, I had no choice I went out for milk and came home with a ls430, as you do 😂🤣

Hi everyone, it has now been just over 3 months driving my ES (premium pack metallic grey) and thought of sharing my experience with it to date... Exterior look Front of the car looks sensational, elegant, beautiful and nothing aggressive at first glance. The side of the car looks well balance and it is a long vehicle reaching near 5 metre length. The door panels are quite long compare to my former GS. The rear look is still an area that I am not 100% sold - something could have been done to make it look as good as the front appearance. The elevated boot with spoiler makes it look a bit strange. But the practicality is there, the boot size is much better than my former GS450h (mk4). So overall, I must say that I am pleased. What I noticed is that when you close the doors, they don’t close as solidly like my former GS450h - so I realise how well built the GS was, compared to the ES - when you shut the door the door panel does vibrate a bit whereas the GS does not. But it is still within quality built I have to admit nevertheless. Interior The front passenger side is good and spacious and so is for the rear passengers offering huge leg rooms. My two kids are happier inside this car than my former GS - it is now much roomier. I am 5 ft 11 1/2 and my head was just touching the roof top in the rear seat but it is not that uncomfortable to seat in the rear at all (journalists love to make such fuss but honestly it is acceptable unless you are 6ft over. So for my height, I would be quite happy to be seated in the back. The middle seat with elbow rest is well built. I love the fact that it just unfolds and touches the front part of the seat so it stays in the right position at all times without bouncing up and down. Now the front driver seat: first glance, the seat looks superb with the premium pack having the beautiful steering leather and wood trim. The controls on the steering wheel are spot on and it feels very special seeing this steering wheel and all the controls around the cockpit. The odometer is alright too offering all the data you need. I am glad that the temperature is constantly on display too (unlike my GS, which I would have to find the option to know outdoor temperature). The centre console is well built and I like the centre compartment how you can open on either side for passenger and driver (just like on the S Class with Mercedes). Good amount of space but the padding to rest the elbow is not as good as GS. The GS had more padding under the leather and it was more comfortable to rest your arm. Having said this, it is still good to rest your arm on the padded part. The cup holders with 2 depth adjustment is a fantastic option and it is great to have 2 optional depth depending on the size of drink you wish to put in. The temperature control is brilliant. I love the fact you can see the numbers going up and down. Beautifully done. The volume adjustment is another clever kit they made with the adjustment for channel and volume. Very clever and it brings memories how older radios were built. This feature is so pleasing to use. The navigation system is ok but fiddly to use if you want to seek a destination. You would need to stop driving as it could be dangerous if you try it and drive at the same time. The good thing is that it displays speed limit and speed cameras locations and provides good navigation assistance (as I used it to drive to France and back in UK). But mostly, I tend to use Android Auto (Apple CarPlay also fitted) and it is much easier to use on the whole so you don’t really worry about Lexus navigation system. The sound system (Pioneer) is rather good as standard option for premium pack. So I am very happy with it but I do know that the Mark Levinson sound system would be even better. The seats are awesome, the driving seat is well padded and so comfortable that I enjoy being in the car - it is so easy to get in and out thanks to the automated system with seats and steering wheel moving forward and back (just like with my former GS). Once you discover this luxury feature it is hard to go with another car that is not fitted with this. However, I noticed that there is no padded band between console and seat so if you drop your phone or keys or money it could get lost under your seat. My GS was equipped with this! So again, it shows how well built the GS was as a car… There are bits of plastic that I find slightly annoying the side of the console, the bottom inside door so when I get out, I tend to hit the side with my shoes and this means that I have left some marks that are hard to get rid off. I wish the plastic was a different quality. Again the GS was better in this respect. But overall, I do forgive and forget they are there as the interior really looks premium and more interesting to be in than the GS for my liking. Having a sunroof is also another great feature with this car and it works great. As I have the premium pack, it is fitted with heated and cooling seats, heated steering wheel and sun protector for rear seats. The seats and steering wheel can be customised with Concierge ventilation automated system so it will come automatically depending on the outdoor temperature. A lovely option to be had in my opinion. The windows are an amazing feature to appreciate how quiet they open and close without making any sound when they close up. It is really a piece of Art to appreciate how much work has gone into this. Driving experience This is the best part and what makes this car so unique and special. To me it means every time I get to drive it, I am assured that it will be a relaxing drive. I absolutely love the fact that the car will take me smoothly on the road and it is so quiet that it feels amazing. It is very hard to explain but the more you get to drive, the more you appreciate what this car is all about. And the weird thing to say is that this car is a boring vehicle if you expect it to be sporty and engaging on the B road. This car will not offer this kind of excitement but will offer you complete relaxation driving around. So you don’t mind being overtaken by other spirited drivers. I completely understand why it was built for. The fuel economy is very impressive: I am getting on average 40 mpg in town and 49-53mpg on Motorway. I know everyone reading this would already know what PS the car has and it is 215ps so it is not the fastest vehicle from 0 to 60mph around 8 sec. but what is interesting to know is that when you are doing 40-50mph and you press the accelerator, the electric engine will provide a good boost and the car feels like a V6 (similar to my GS) to be frank - it has good amount of power to compensate. But it simply is not designed to take off rapidly like my GS from 0 to 60mph. However, you quickly adapt and appreciate to drive it smoothly without any rush. This car has not been designed for this. And honestly I recently drove a BMW series 5 530d Year 2021 and I really dislike it as it was way too aggressive compare to my ES - the driving seats (M sport) were too uncomfortable and I hated every occasion driving this car (for 2 weeks due to a minor accident I had with my ES - an elderly driver scrapped the side of my car when it was stopped. Driver had not seen my car!). So needless to say that when my ES returned I was super happy to give back the loaned BMW car and it made me realised how much Lexus have got this spot on for every day normal driving. The fact is driving in London, we are obliged to follow frequently 20mph zones that it is impossible to truly enjoy a fast car. So the ES is actually the perfect car for this type of environment in town as well as on the motorway. Various driving modes ECO - NORMAL - SPORT I love the round switch next to the odometer and it looks unique and quite exciting to operate. When you change the mode, the odometer will change colour between Normal and Sport (with sport will show the RPM rather than charge - normal - power) The ECO is identical to normal but you get the ECO wording on the center of the odometer. Each are very well designed and I mainly keep it on normal as it delivers just the right amount of comfort and power delivery for every day normal driving. The sport mode changes the charasteristics of the car making the rev quicker and it also feels more responsive but overall it is not the kind of mode for me that I would want to be in all the time, as the car has been designed to drive you from A to B in complete relaxing mode. The Eco mode is slower than the normal mode but it is programmed to give you as much EV power as possible so the speed will not be its priority. It is an interesting mode if you want to know how much EV mode you can get but bearing in mind that the normal engine will still kick in if you want to speed a bit faster and when you go uphill too. The EV mode will work on the flat road and down hill better. But it is a better generation than my GS so it will engage more and still under 70pmh too, which is an improvement as my GS could only engage EV mode up to 40 mph. Long driving experience I had the pleasure taking my ES for the first time driving from London though Eurotunnel to Calais and all the way to Nantes and the long drive was simply outstanding. The suspension and power delivery is just what you need in my opinion and the overtaking of cars was effortless. The car is quite powerful in my view and has no issues doing any overtaking. What I did notice is that I could do 600 miles with one tank easily but it was not possible to do the whole trip (840 miles) without refuelling. And the main reason is that the tank is not a big size compare to my GS. I believe it is a third smaller than GS. However the economy was impressive. I was returning 44mpg on average doing lots of motorway driving. I was able to use the active lane assist and active cruise control. It was lovely to appreciate what this is all about but you cannot fully rely on it as sometimes, it is not always accurate when markings are not clear on either side of the road. But on the main motorway, it was helping my journey to be even more relax. Really impressed with this. LED lights and interior lights Front LED lights (3 dots LED) are Amazing and work superbly. They work great and there is no need to make any adjustment when driving on the French road. The car looks so beautiful when they are on and you get a lot of attention from other drivers I noticed. The exterior light when approaching the vehicle (with keyless entry) is rather too discreet. My GS was a bit more visible litting the side mirror and door handles. This ES only lits the car doors when I approach it. Maybe the premium pack is not complete - I don’t know. Once inside, the white lights are subtle and discreet, which is lovely but I wish that there was an option to change the light colour on the doors and front dash board like some other cars do offer with multiple colours to choose from. But I am quite happy to live without them also. One thing that I truly appreciate with Lexus is whenever you get inside any Lexus vehicle, you will instantly recognise the same features with BSM, Auto Hold, colour of R for rear (orange), N (green) D (White), press mode to mute etc. they simply remain identical in any LEXUS cars you get in. I really love the fact that Lexus has been and is continuing to stay consistent with this that you will never feel ‘lost’ with the way the car operates. Another lovely feature with Lexus saloon car is this: when you lock your car with GS and ES, and you can still open the boot without having to unlock the vehicle or lock it again. You simply open and shut the boot and the vehicles stays locked when you walk away. Keyless feature still operates identically with the GS and ES (same for NX) and it is just wonderful to know this feature is consistent regardless of the weather. It simply works all the time when you want to open the door and lock it. On the whole, I am super impressed with this ES and I can say in full confidence that I do not regret the change from GS. The power train is a slightly under but it does not feel as much when you are driving it and as I mentioned the car has no power struggle overtaking, it is that good and very steady and compose on the road, also much quieter than my GS driving motorway speed at 70pmh. It is quite astonishing how quieter the car is and everything feels so relaxing and you will be appreciating this car more than a more powered vehicle (from any other makes) as you will feel just more relax after driving it. I recently had a loaned vehicle with the 530D BMW for 2 weeks, I was feeling too much on edge, it was too fast driving and it was making me more agressive as a driver subconsciously. The ES truly has a way to find my calmer inner ‘soul’ and being with it again, I was over the moon having it back! Every time I lock the car, I cannot help but look back and admire the lines and its angles and appreciate how they built it bit by bit. The side mirrors are very elegantly built that it stands out and really make the car very special (I think the digital side mirrors don’t look as good as the normal side mirrors for my liking and they are also far more expensive too). This car is truly a different car than my GS, which I also love very much for its comfort and power delivery but was not giving the same economy that I am getting now. The EV mode works more frequently with the ES than my GS I noticed and you hardly feel any changes from EV to normal engine but the combination with CVT works really well together and Lexus have done something very unique and to get the impressive economy for such a large car is truly impressive. Anyone hesitating because it is just a 2.5 L fuel engine should really try it on the main city roads and motorway and you will immediately understand what I have tried to describe. This car is by far the most relaxing one I have ever driven. Strange from someone who likes driving sports cars too but it could be that I am getting older now and that I want a vehicle that is going to help me be relaxed when my work is stressful at times. This is exactly what I need, a meditation Zen on the move! One you will truly appreciate if you have a stressful job or not…

Thanks for the suggestions, I will see who is doing the best deal on a new battery. In the mean time I have ordered a booster pack just in case.

It could indeed and with winter coming it may only get worse, so I'd change it now.

No one really knows why Toy/Lex decided on such small capacity batteries but the two main theories are: The cost of the battery itself. A conventional starter motor takes upwards of 300A to crank the engine, but a hybrid only takes 20A to boot the computers and get the car into READY mode, so a smaller battery at lower cost will do the job. A physically smaller battery weighs less, which means that fuel consumption will be less, which in turn means better for the environment and the ever-tighter 'green' targets being brought in by the world's governments. Might sound silly but when you consider the thousands and thousands of batteries per year, it could add up to a considerable sum. During the first Covid lockdown the advice on Toyota's website was to put the car into READY mode for at least 60 minutes per week to keep the 12V battery topped up. It seemed to work but it wasn't ideal. @D Johnson Now that we're into bad weather season I'm not sure if 40 minutes each way is going to be enough to keep the battery in good condition; not when you take increased usage of lights, heaters, heated screens etc., into account as well. If you put the car in a garage overnight, I'd be inclined to keep it on a trickle charger. Even if you don't have a garage but just keep it on the driveway overnight, it would be easy enough to keep the trickle charger in the house, drill a hole through the wall and feed the 12V wires through and terminate them in a waterproof box on the outside wall. You could then make a permanent connection to the battery and use some sort of plug/socket arrangement whereby you just pull the car onto the driveway each night and plug it in. There is a very rough calculation that you can use to see how long the 12V battery will last before going flat but you have to make so many assumptions that I really don't think it's worth the effort. First thing to understand is that every time it goes flat it sustains a small amount of damage and so its capacity goes down a bit each time. Secondly, all cars draw a quiescent current in order to keep things like the clock, the radio presets, the seat memory and so on, alive. Rule of thumb is that about 50 to 70mA (0.05 to 0.07A) is considered 'normal'. We'll assume a brand new and fully charged battery and, being as it was mentioned above, a capacity of 45Ah. This means that it should supply 45A for one hour, or 22.5A for two hours and so on, so it'll take: 45Ah / 0.05A = 900 hours 900 hours = 37.5 days 37.5 days = 5.3 weeks to go from fully charged to fully flat if the car is just left standing doing nothing. However, for the purposes of starting the car, it will be useless for that long before it becomes fully flat.

Hello Dimi, Yes, the waiting times for the new NX350H are ridiculous. Since the new model was launched there has been two price increases, I wonder if the dealerships will honour the original price of the vehicle when the order was placed? The last time that I spoke to my Lexus dealer, I was informed that they were no longer taking orders for the NX350H. I know that some dealerships bought some new stock of the RX450H before it was discontinued, you might be lucky and still obtain a new RX450H (old model) at are greatly reduced price. There are also some very good low mileage preowned RX models on the market, and I am sure the dealerships would give you a very good deal at this time of the year. I was quite lucky as I managed to buy one of the last older models of RX450H at a greatly reduced price. The price that I paid for the car was virtually the same a new NX350H with premium pack plus. In my opinion the RX 450H just feels a little more premium than the NX 350H.The RX450H does not have the same new technology as the NX350H, but instead is fitted with older style controls, it retains all of the character of a classic well-built vehicle. The RX is powered by a V6 engine which delivers the power in a silky smooth manner, and is effortless to drive. All the best.

Whilst I cannot make an informed observation on the SatNav issue, your battery reading only 11.8v is most certainly an issue, and cold weather will certainly pinpoint that. I would get a new battery pdq. (and yes - you may well find the SatNav's a little happier too!)

And whilst this charade is going on no comment from the media on of the greatest Test matches ever with England, under Ben Stokes, conjuring up the most unlikely of outcomes in Pakistan 🥳🥳🥳

Worst appliance I bought was a vegetable drainer, but it took 24 days to drain the vegetables... ...it was an advent colander.

Been having an issue with my 12v battery the last 6 weeks or so, it has been discharging over the course of a week & on a couple of occasions has actually got so low the car wouldn't start & I had to jump it. I mentioned it at my service a month ago that it had gone flat & they said they would charge it & asked me see how it performs. I also decided to keep a check on it myself with my volt meter. Fully charged & after the charger was taken off it was only showing a voltage of 12.5v, this dropped to 12.2v 24hrs later, 2 days after that it was reading 11.93v, although the car did start at this voltage. Well after it going flat again last week I asked them to change it as the car is only 2 years old, this was done today under warranty with no argument. The cost to Lexus on the invoice was £225 which seems quite expensive for a 12v battery to me? I noticed it has a Toyota branded battery 12v 45ah fitted so hopefully all will be ok now for a few years.

This is a really nice summary of RX ownersip, it echoes how I feel about my previous-gen model. I did recently try the NX450H+, thinking of it as a possible future replacement, but it didn't have the same feel, the technology and controls were a little overwhelming and I slightly surprised myself by coming away thinking that a late 4th gen RX will hopefully be my next main car, if I can afford/justify it.

When I purchased a spare wheel for my old SC430, I cut the shape of the spare wheel out with a jigsaw, using the original boot cover. Then hunted down a second standard floor cover, when I sold the car I kept the spare wheel and cover for my then next SC430.

The more complicated things are made, the less it takes for them not to function.

Air-condition is meant to keep temperature reasonable in summer and cabin dry in winter. Never turn off air-condition. We only use air recirculating when driving by one of the sea-water desalting plants (do not smell that nice), otherwise always air from outside.

Anton, What an excellent first post on the Forum. That's a well constructed and beautifully illustrated article. Come the day when I need to install a new battery, I will make a point of reading this article again. Thank you.

Hello everyone, Just wanted to share my Lexus Rx450h battery replacement. After a lot of reading on different forums I've decided to go for a simple standard Bosch s4 024 12V 60Ah Type 005L battery (see photos). Cost was GBP 67.95 delivered Size wise it fits perfectly. There are two vent plugs on both sides of the battery. One was removed to fit the vent tube....but the vent tube was slightly larger than the vent hole. I just carefully extended the hole with a drill to fit the size of the standard Lexus vent tube. After that, battery was fitted without any issues. The debate about AGM batteries feels a bit strange, bearing in mind that the standard Panasonic D23 battery is not AGM (mine was fitted 12 years ago and was never changed). Hope that helps someone. Any questions, let me know

Very nice....but did you remember the milk 😄

Just noticed this on ebay...dark green mica ones must be as rare as hens teeth because its the first I've seen! Let's hope it's new owner becomes a LOC member and we may see it next June at our annual meet in Coventry

For mileage I would always recommend Michelin tyres. I've also found they grip well both wet and dry. I have never really considered noise as the V8 growl drowned out road noise... I have Continentals on my RX and they appear very quiet, no idea on mileage yet.

just received this.

Not far off the mark Ray. Last time the Senior Team won anything was in 1966, so let`s not go overboard.

For those who have been thinking of a spare set if wheels for winter, or a 18” wheel rims, here is an example. Wheel rims: 7.5Jx18 ET35 (from Lexus NX) Tyres: Continental CrossContact LX 255 60 R18 18” tyres are noticeably softer on ever degrading London roads, and wider tyre profile (255 vs 225mm) protects sensitive diamond-cut wheel rims from curbing. This size of tyres is standard for Nissan Navara, Range Rover Discovery, VW Amarok, Jaguar F-Pace etc., and often can be sourced as a set in near-new condition for a fraction of original price.

I don't know what you folks think but I thought that was a very professional performance tonight against the champions of Africa Senegal. So on to next Saturday and we meet the French a very good team and one of the tournament favorites along with Brazil. I reckon we can give either of them a run for their money. ::Come on England::

The local authority seem have a few cllrs in favour of hydrogen. Personally i think this is the way to go.

Yes it is but you have to select it to check it out so not ideal as I wanted the other information to be showing at all times. With this ES the temperature will be showing at the top of the cluster so you see it permanently like the clock... Small thing but big difference.

I'm not sure if a FWD 4 pot vs a RWD V6 is a "upgrade" but I'd still take this over a floppy SUV's any day, maybe I'm not pan-sexual enough 😆 Great write up covering probably everything, there was a blue F Sport ES parked in the next to where I work & it looked lovely, maybe I could leave 6 cylinder RWD after over 12 years across 3 cars. My GS4 has the outside temp in the dial cluster so maybe you missed it.

https://lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/product/lexus-is-phase-3-auxiliary-12v-starter-battery/ Direct from Lexus £145 + postage call it £155. If you decide to DIY you can potentially save upto £100. Its a 15 minute job at the most the battery is in the boot on the left remove the cover & 10mm spanner for the clamp & terminals very straightforward job. Keep it charged is key if your not using the car regulat use a maintenance charger I use a Noco Genius 5 every 3-6 months.

£225 is the going rate for this battery. It is not one you can buy from halfords and replace yourself.

To be fair, there was plenty of coverage on Sky…who had the Test live but who don’t have rights to the World Cup! What a coincidence… Whilst I am a big football fan, my focus has always been on club rather than country. Don’t get me wrong, I’m watching the World Cup and I’d love England to win it, but if they don’t…meh. At school we didn’t play football at all - in fact we weren’t even allowed to play football in our own time when school had finished for the day. Things were simple back then. Rugby and Hockey in the Winter. Cricket and Tennis in Summer, with some Athletics thrown in for those that had an aptitude for it, although in reality everything was about team sport. Tug-o-War was a favourite after school game too! I call different times… Funny, in some ways football became the ‘forbidden fruit’ for many of us. I absolutely detest rugby, but do love cricket. Actually I’d say test cricket is my favourite sport just to watch and while away hours…

Frivolous comment, I always think of Uncle Buck when I see the Word "Shocks" Sorry I can't help.

Speaking of the U.S. snake oil tradition in automotive lubricants etc., here's an interesting precursor of MMO from 1900 (? - or claimed to have been founded then) with a name exploiting the bestselling Wizard of Oz novel first published in that year accompanied by a graphic depicting the Tin Man character, rather cleverly in that he needed rustproofing and lubrication. If the date is not spurious, the product preceded MMO by two decades (and the movie by nearly four) and maybe was the inspiration for it. It would be interesting to know what the ingredients were. If lard was not among them, maybe whale oil, plentiful at the time, or bear fat were used, or goodness knows what else.

If a charger or similar cost more or less the same as a new battery, I know what I would do when problems start.

6 years for a battery that should only start the computer is not a long time, but temperatures up and down may be hard on batteries. More or less like a battery on a laptop. Some last 10 years and some only as long as they are warranted. Just had service on our CT and were told everything is like it should be, whatever that may mean.

I imagine my Convertible looked good in the showroom. You must remember Sean Stringer…? Sean drove it down and drove my LC 500 Coupe back up. The Coupe was bought by a guy who lives in Lanarkshire. It’s his first Lexus, and he is a member of this Forum.

Also Debs, if you havent already, you may want to check in the glove box for the manual on off switch that controls the powered boot operation, as mentioned in another post, this can get unknowingly knocked and cause some bafflement.

That is one heck of shopping trolley to put milk in, but no harm done in buying the trolley. Makes me want to scratch my LS is 23 years old itch with an upgrade

Indeed. What exactly is holding up the supply chain. How is if that a company (Toyota) that practically invented the Kaizen for process improvement is so appalling at managing its production scheduling? Some slack is allowed for COVID. But I ordered “my” 350h F-Sport in Feb 22 with an August-ish delivery estimate; then October; then Build to start in December last month: arriving in the UK in February. But reading the latest, could be March/April. Really looking forward now to having my own, test drives can sustain you only for so long!

Hi Kevin There are indeed 2 road Bridges that cross the Forth, north of Edinburgh. The original Forth Road Bridge is now for the exclusive use of buses and taxis since the opening of the Queensferry crossing. The M90 was constructed in tandem with the Forth Road Bridge as its feeder motorway in the 1960's but has been much extended over the decades and modified more recently to align with the Queensferry Crossing. I'm sorry to hear that you are not taking up your option on the RZ and thank you for considering me as your "reserve" on the waiting list but I am perfectly happy with the NX450h+. Enjoy your BMW when it comes. Your LC500 is stunning - I saw it at Lexus Edinburgh pre delivery to yourself!

Deborah, I'd say you might do well to find a good mobile mechanic prepared to take on removing your suspension strut and you sending it to Brian at Orchard engineering for bearing repair, then them refitting it when its back. The powered boot is more complex - may needs diagnostics or perhaps just a new fuse? Finding a clever mobile mechanic, may save you some hassle. good luck

Very nice! Huge improvement in my opinion.

Buy a second hand one if the new ones are out of stock: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275471494532

Buy more clothes, I say Malc. I used to put a wash on once a week, based on when I run out of clean socks and boxers. So, I just bought more socks and boxers, and now the machine goes on once a fortnight 🙂

Great news, pleased for you. Shame you had to go through all this though.

Sorry Brent. I do not believe in Omens. History is Bunk said Henry F. I would however hope that we do screw the French.🤣🤣🤣

Daughter to Father: "Dad there is something my boyfriend said to me, that I didn't understand. He said that I have a beautiful chassis, lovely airbags, and a fantastic bumper." Father's response: "Tell your boyfriend that if he opens your bonnet and tries to check your oil with his dipstick, I will tighten his nuts so hard that his headlights will pop out and he will start leaking from his exhaust pipe!”.

Toyota were Fiorentina's shirt sponsor for a number of years. The Lexus brand seems to be targeted at more "affluent" sports like Golf & Tennis. As for England. I've found them quite boring to watch in most of their matches. There's been too many long periods of the GK, back 4 and Rice passing the ball sideways between each other with seemingly no idea of how to progress farther up the pitch. I swear this went on for about 20mins straight at one point against the USA. Who, they probably should have lost to. They're capable of anything because of the players they have at their disposal, so it wouldn't surprise me if they beat France, but it's like they play with the handbrake on under Southgate. As a neutral, the team I would like to win the tournament, is Argentina. Their fans have been amazing and also because of Lionel Messi. He's a joy to watch, even when past his best like he is nowadays, but if he finishes his career with a winners medal, it'll put to bed any argument about his standing in the game and being compared with others.

Glad at least the selling side is going well👍🏻

Very nice & no envy at all of your workshop😉🤣

not in the slightest . nor more reliable, nor as quick and fast either ......... after all, I cannot drive at more than 30mph in most places, down to 20mph in many and neither greater than 70mph on the motorways .......... so I'll just tuck the odd £30/50/80/100/120k into my back pocket for that rainy day ............ do cars really cost that much these days . cor blimey .... wot a mountain to climb for those unfortunate enough not to own a Ls400 😇 Malc